Featured India’s Test of Hypersonic missile and implications for Pakistan

[Bilal.]

Not comparable. India deploys supersonic cruise missiles in a number of roles. Land launched, air launched and ship launched. Pakistan only has a low range air launched anti ship missile.

The one I referred to is in development missile confirmed in MODP report for 2017-2018 and will surely be developed for multiple roles.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Very concerning. Pakistan needs counter measures

No its not concerning, think logically.

The higher the speed of the missile, the higher the RCS and the less it can maneuver. When the Missile gets launched, it will be immediately detected by Pakistan's extensive radar coverage. A modern day Phalanx can fire thousands of rounds in a minute, Good Luck dodging that. There is a reason why the US abandoned using hypersonic missiles and largely rely on Tomahawks because they figured the Soviets would easily shoot down the hypersonic missiles. A hypersonic missile would be a nightmare for the likes of Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan that don't feature an extensive AD network, not against the likes of Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to continue its focus on ensuring all of PAF, PA and PN's assets are connected through an indigenous network centric system. In addition, the focus should also be on modernizing these assets.

I think within 10-15 years we will attain similar capability. That’s the trend.

Smiling Buddha 1974 -> 1984 Pakistan conducted cold test gaining parity

1988 Prithvi Missile -> 1997-1999 Ghauri and Shaheen

2004 BrahMos missile -> 2018 confirmation of Supersonic missile development in MODP

We don't need to, its a waste of money. Pakistan will continue its research and investments on low flying, low RCS and longer range cruise missiles with bigger payloads.

 

[Dark1]

pakistani policy makers are incompetent, when western companies started moving into india to make it a viable option against china, then at the same time all the necessary tech started flowing into india.
bunch of fools pakistani policy makers are, 1972 nuke explosion was with a green signal from the west, tech provided by the west and russia at the same time..
Hasb e Allah he wa namal wakeel... repeat it again and again so u will learn to rely on him and only him, work hard to defend yourself

The 1972 nuclear test by India was aimed at usa not Pakistan. The nuclear 7th fleet had tried to intimidate India during the 71 war. No chance of usa giving us any nuclear tech. The canadians helped by giving us a civilian reactor but sanctioned us after the test.

 

[Dark1]

Too much hype in our local context. Air defense systems against normal ballistic missiles are still rudimentary in most countries including India and Pakistan. Having a faster missile is a plus but not a gamechanger as i doubt India can intercept most Pakistani missiles incase of conflict.
The patriot missiles failed spectacularly in the gulf war inspite of all the hype.

Patriot Missiles Are Made in America and Fail Everywhere

The evidence is in: the missile defense system that the United States and its allies rely on is a lemon.

foreignpolicy.com

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[maverick1977]

The 1972 nuclear test by India was aimed at usa not Pakistan. The nuclear 7th fleet had tried to intimidate India during the 71 war. No chance of usa giving us any nuclear tech. The canadians helped by giving us a civilian reactor but sanctioned us after the test.

ahahah ! that was the game. US would never meddle in India. Pakistan has been played by US since its birth.

7th fleet my ***. US couldve launched B52s to strike indian targets while pakistan was waiting for seventh fleet. rofl

The nuclear India in 1972 was aimed at China to counter as a regional player after US defeat in Korean war. US does not allow anyone to become nuclear till it wants to, exception is Pakistan which did it due to AFghan war. look at all the founders of nuclear programs, all killed, like Bhutto.

 

[Bilal.]

No its not concerning, think logically.

The higher the speed of the missile, the higher the RCS and the less it can maneuver. When the Missile gets launched, it will be immediately detected by Pakistan's extensive radar coverage. A modern day Phalanx can fire thousands of rounds in a minute, Good Luck dodging that. There is a reason why the US abandoned using hypersonic missiles and largely rely on Tomahawks because they figured the Soviets would easily shoot down the hypersonic missiles. A hypersonic missile would be a nightmare for the likes of Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan that don't feature an extensive AD network, not against the likes of Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to continue its focus on ensuring all of PAF, PA and PN's assets are connected through an indigenous network centric system. In addition, the focus should also be on modernizing these assets.



We don't need to, its a waste of money. Pakistan will continue its research and investments on low flying, low RCS and longer range cruise missiles with bigger payloads.

Brother you are confusing super-sonic with hyper-sonic. US and all other major powers are actively pursuing these types of weapons, there is a race going on to achieve this capability. Phalanx would be pretty much useless against a hypersonic missile, there is no defence against them as yet.

Also Pakistan has already green lit the development of Supersonic AShCM as per MODP report for 2017-2018. Next logical step will be hypersonic research.

 

[waz]

Not comparable. India deploys supersonic cruise missiles in a number of roles. Land launched, air launched and ship launched. Pakistan only has a low range air launched anti ship missile.

It can be launched from a variety of platforms and the YJ-12 has a greater range than India’s Brahmos ,and a faster speed......

Securing the Coasts; Pakistani Navy Tests New Anti Ship Cruise Missile

Pakistan’s navy has recently tested a number of land based and air launched anti ship cruise missile systems to complement the Chinese manufactured YJ-12 missiles

militarywatchmagazine.com

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

It can be launched from a variety of platforms and the YJ-12 has a greater range than India’s Brahmos ,and a faster speed......

YJ-12 has a range of 250-400 KM depending up altitude. Brahmos has a range of 450 KM - 500 KM and it flies much lower than YJ-12.

BTW, Pakistan does not have YJ-12. It has CM-400AKG ALCM variant, which has a range of 240 KM max. Also CM-400AKG ALCM flies much higher than Brahmos-A. There is a reason why CM-400AKG has a mass of 900 odd KG while Brahmos-A has a mass of 2500 KG. Flight profiles. Flying lower takes more thrust and so more fuel but offers better hiding from detection. Brahmos-A, has a range of 400 KM +.

Lastly, Pakistan does not field ground launched or ship launched or sub launched versions of YJ-12. Only Air launched versions. India has ground, ship and air launched versions of Brahmos with sub launched version in works.

 

[Bilal.]

MODP Year Book 2017-18

DIRECTORATE GENERAL MUNITIONS PRODUCTION (DGMP) PROCUREMENT OF MAJOR DEFENCE EQUIPMENT

defence.pk

 

[Vapour]

No its not concerning, think logically.

The higher the speed of the missile, the higher the RCS and the less it can maneuver. When the Missile gets launched, it will be immediately detected by Pakistan's extensive radar coverage. A modern day Phalanx can fire thousands of rounds in a minute, Good Luck dodging that. There is a reason why the US abandoned using hypersonic missiles and largely rely on Tomahawks because they figured the Soviets would easily shoot down the hypersonic missiles. A hypersonic missile would be a nightmare for the likes of Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan that don't feature an extensive AD network, not against the likes of Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to continue its focus on ensuring all of PAF, PA and PN's assets are connected through an indigenous network centric system. In addition, the focus should also be on modernizing these assets.



We don't need to, its a waste of money. Pakistan will continue its research and investments on low flying, low RCS and longer range cruise missiles with bigger payloads.

Not sure there's anything on PA having long range tracking radars, like the ones that IA has, in the public domain?

 

[Falcon26]

No its not concerning, think logically.

The higher the speed of the missile, the higher the RCS and the less it can maneuver. When the Missile gets launched, it will be immediately detected by Pakistan's extensive radar coverage. A modern day Phalanx can fire thousands of rounds in a minute, Good Luck dodging that. There is a reason why the US abandoned using hypersonic missiles and largely rely on Tomahawks because they figured the Soviets would easily shoot down the hypersonic missiles. A hypersonic missile would be a nightmare for the likes of Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan that don't feature an extensive AD network, not against the likes of Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to continue its focus on ensuring all of PAF, PA and PN's assets are connected through an indigenous network centric system. In addition, the focus should also be on modernizing these assets.



We don't need to, its a waste of money. Pakistan will continue its research and investments on low flying, low RCS and longer range cruise missiles with bigger payloads.

The US didn’t abandon hypersonic missiles,. In fact, it has multiple ongoing hypersonic missile programs. It abandoned supersonic missiles like the Russian Brahmos. Big difference.

 

[waz]

YJ-12 has a range of 250-400 KM depending up altitude. Brahmos has a range of 450 KM - 500 KM and it flies much lower than YJ-12.

BTW, Pakistan does not have YJ-12. It has CM-400AKG ALCM variant, which has a range of 240 KM max. Also CM-400AKG ALCM flies much higher than Brahmos-A. There is a reason why CM-400AKG has a mass of 900 odd KG while Brahmos-A has a mass of 2500 KG. Flight profiles. Flying lower takes more thrust and so more fuel but offers better hiding from detection. Brahmos-A, has a range of 400 KM +.

Lastly, Pakistan does not field ground launched or ship launched or sub launched versions of YJ-12. Only Air launched versions. India has ground, ship and air launched versions of Brahmos with sub launched version in works.

The range of the YJ-12 is clearly stated by experts at 400km, the "depends on altitude" part you got from wikipedia.

Here, from none other than missile defence advocacy alliance;

The YJ-12 has a range of 400 km, can reach speeds of up to Mach 3, and is capable of performing air-borne evasive maneuvers before hitting its target.
The YJ-12 poses a number of a number of security concerns for U.S. naval forces in the Pacific and is considered the “most dangerous anti-ship missile China has produced thus far.” [2] The danger posed by the YJ-12 comes from its range of 400 km, making it the longest-ranged ACBM ever engineered

YJ-12 – Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance

missiledefenseadvocacy.org

Pakistan does have the lighter version of CM-400AKG. The range you stated is what is known as the "on paper profile", actual range and what has been given to Pakistan is highly classified, as with many systems given to Pakistan by China they tend to be significantly far better than what other countries can expect to buy with off shelf purchases.

True the CM-4000 doesn't fly low, here the reference from Stephen Trimble;

A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video.

DUBAI: China details performance of 'carrier killer' missile for JF-17

China's AVIC has revealed performance and accuracy details about a supersonic cruise missile reportedly dubbed an "aircraft carrier killer".

www.flightglobal.com

The CM-400AKG, a product of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, is an unusual weapon. Unlike many other anti-ship missiles, it follows a high ballistic flight path.


And David Axe;

According to the manufacturers’ figures, a fighter such as a JF-17 would launch the CM-400AKG at an altitude between 26,200 and 39,400 feet while traveling as fast as Mach .9.

The weapon’s apparent origin as a development of the SY-400 short-range ballistic missile could explain this odd profile. The CM-400AKG like other high-flying ballistic missiles consumes solid fuel and does not require an air inlet. Lower-flying weapons often combine liquid fuel and an air-breathing motor.


But this the idea i.e. it makes it very difficult to intercept....You also ignored the fact the lighter CM-400 is a far faster missile than Brahmos, with some experts putting it at Mach 5.

Also finally a ship launched variation will be arriving with Pakistan's new Typ54A frigates.


Pakistan Navy's 054A/P frigate is likely to be equipped with SR2410C phased array radar and the export version YJ-12 supersonic AShM CM302. CGI by 西葛西

Pakistan Navy's 054A/P frigate likely to be equipped with SR2410C phased array radar and YJ-12 supersonic AShM CM302

Type 54A Pakistan Navy's 054A/P frigate is likely to be equipped with SR2410C phased array radar and the export v...

thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com

Your own media has even reported it;

Moreover, according to some media reports, Pakistan’s variants despite subsonic C-802 could be fitted with the latest CM-302 supersonic ASCM, an export version of PLA-Navy YJ-12B, offered by China’s CASIC.

Pakistan Navy efforts to challenge Indian might in the maritime domain

Photo: Pakistan Navy’s Type 054A frigate. By Atul Kumar A strong navy packed with aircraft carriers, surface combatants and underwater submarines is indispensable for safeguarding the vital s…

defence.capital

An export variant of the YJ-12 missile, the CM-302, is likely to be the primary weapon on board four new Chinese frigates being built for the Pakistan Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai.

Game-Changing Chinese Missile To Pak Could Dent Navy's BrahMos Advantage

A game-changing Chinese anti-ship missile, capable of flying at three times the speed of sound, could erode a key missile advantage the Indian Navy has enjoyed over the Pakistani Navy since 2005. An export variant of the YJ-12 missile, the CM-302, is likely to be the primary weapon on board four...

www.ndtv.com

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

Pakistan does have the lighter version of CM-400AKG. The range you stated is what is known as the "on paper profile", actual range and what has been given to Pakistan is highly classified, as with many systems given to Pakistan by China they tend to be significantly far better than what other countries can expect to buy with off shelf purchases.

If we are talking about "Highly confidential" ranges, then Brahmos has a range of 800 KM owing to its Oniks P-800 heritage. 290 range initially was just there to keep MTCR happy. Its range is also "highly confidential".

As far as many systems given to Pakistan by China goes, similar situation exists between Russia and India. Many weapon systems and details shared by Russia to India are very unique. For instance, India SSBN program got massive help from Russia.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

An export variant of the YJ-12 missile, the CM-302, is likely to be the primary weapon on board four new Chinese frigates being built for the Pakistan Navy at the Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai.

Even CM-302 has a range of 280 KM. Besides, none of those platforms are deployed WITH Pakistan right now. Brahmos is deployed and is under evolution for long time. 450-500 KM version was tested in 2017. 600 to 800 KM version are in works.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

But this the idea i.e. it makes it very difficult to intercept....You also ignored the fact the lighter CM-400 is a far faster missile than Brahmos, with some experts putting it at Mach 5.

Its a ramjet powered missile. Had it been a Mach 5 missile throughout its trajectory, it would not have been possible with lighter version. At Mach-5 you are more or less in domain of SCRAMjet because RAMjet by itself starts getting inefficient. Most likely, you have a Mach 2 missile which accelarates to Mach 5 during terminal dive phase as it flies high. A Mach 2 object flying high make a very good target for potent israeli Air Defence systems like Barak-8 deployed by India on its warships.