India's Tejas and China's Xiaolong fighters compared

[hussain0216]

Post reported for Insulting Nation

@Topic: A Project is started when funding Started. For LCA funding started in 1991.

Yes it takes time to Design and develop a plane..

Only "Beg Borrow Steal Cheat" mechanism can produce jet in 6 years..

..

But after 4 decades of development the LCA is 35% indigenous

 

[ZooZoo]

But after 4 decades of development the LCA is 35% indigenous

Lets quantify it..

35% by parts?
35% by volume?
35% by Weight or?
35% by Cost??

Can you please be specific?

1993 First phase funding started, -->

• Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

2001 First flight (4 year lost because of USA Sanctions)
2015 -> LCA SP1 inducted in IAF.
====================
22 years--> Average for a nation to design and develop a fighetr

Timeline of HAL Tejas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hussain0216]

Lets quantify it..

35% by parts?
35% by volume?
35% by Weight or?
35% by Cost??

Can you please be specific?

I dont know but the below article from your CAG says its only 35% indigenous

The CAG states that whilst DRDO claimed 70% was indigenous it actually worked out to 35%

| Business Standard Mobile Website

Now when your own audit says that who am I to say otherwise



You have spent decades working on a plane where the vast majority is foreign and its still not ready

And you people are knocking the JF 17????

 

[ZooZoo]

I dont know but the below article from you CAG says its only 35% indigenous

| Business Standard Mobile Website

These ppl know nothing technical.. So don't quote them..... Better take cue from some technical guy..

Now when your own audit says that who am I to say otherwise
You have spent decades working on a plane where the vast majority is foreign and its still not ready
And you people are knocking the JF 17????

Lets rebuk point raised by CAG:
1. LCA didn't meet IAF requirement --> True, we all know IAF, Dallals , Neta and Babus tried to Sabotage LCA project. It was Bajpai and few good men who kept project running. No one in world can meet IAF reuirement (Unless Kickback is provided)
2. 35% is Desi component: --> Depends how one calculate component. No point in making nut-bolts for 20 LCAs, it better to buy them from abroad. When IAF ask for 100+ LCA we will make it..
3. FC1: I am just saying developing a plane doesnt happen in 5 years... It need 20 years. If it happen in 5 years, it is Either "Beg Borrow Steal Cheat" or just "Assembled one"..

 

[khanasifm]

Official LCA specs http://www.tejas.gov.in/ADA-Tejas Brochure-2015.pdf

40% composite but still overweight , 5.5 ton empty weight not met, neither its 9g as claimed, currently it weight more then jf 17

JF with china, western engine was not an option after 80s so RD93 but its still better then what chinese had to offer

 

[ZooZoo]

Official LCA specs http://www.tejas.gov.in/ADA-Tejas Brochure-2015.pdf

40% composite but still overweight , 5.5 ton empty weight not met, neither its 9g as claimed, currently it weight more then jf 17

JF with china, western engine was not an option after 80s so RD93 but its still better then what chinese had to offer

So?

 

[Windjammer]

Best to compare the JF-17 with a worthy opponent.


LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines

Government Auditor Faults Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Project, Says it Fails to Meet Air Force's Needs

 

[HariPrasad]

Best to compare the JF-17 with a worthy opponent.


LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines

Government Auditor Faults Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Project, Says it Fails to Meet Air Force's Needs

CAG might have potent enemy like china in mind while giving this report.You have nothing to cheer about.

 

[Windjammer]

CAG might have potent enemy like china in mind while giving this report.You have nothing to cheer about.

Oh so now LCA is meant for China as well or maybe that was the idea some twenty years earlier when Tejas should have been inducted and PLAAF was still dependant on the likes of F-7s.
As for the potent thing, one should first learn to walk before attempting to run.

 

[NIA]

Best to compare the JF-17 with a worthy opponent.


LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines

Government Auditor Faults Tejas Light Combat Aircraft Project, Says it Fails to Meet Air Force's Needs

Sir LCA is not a front line fighter. ...it is just to replace mig 21 until PAKFA arrives....yes lca is can't penetrate into enemy aero space ....this is the first product of HAL ....I hope upcoming projects may be good.
REGARDS

 

[Indian Patriot]

1. LCA didn't meet IAF requirement --> True, we all know IAF, Dallals , Neta and Babus tried to Sabotage LCA project. It was Bajpai and few good men who kept project running. No one in world can meet IAF reuirement (Unless Kickback is provided)

Yes, blame kick backs for every project failure. DRDO is still not able to come up with a 155 mm 52 cal arty gun because of kickbacks.

2. 35% is Desi component: --> Depends how one calculate component. No point in making nut-bolts for 20 LCAs, it better to buy them from abroad. When IAF ask for 100+ LCA we will make it..

The engine - most vital component - is imported along with a host of other things. Engines are more than "nut-bolts".

 

[I M Sikander]

LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines


KALYAN RAY, NEW DELHI, MAY 08,2015, DHNS:

Tejas light combat aircraft
The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) will experience a major handicap in defeating the enemy due to non-availability and poor performance of three electronic warfare instruments, developed by Indian agencies.


During the trial, the all-important counter measure dispensing system that protects the aircraft against radar and heat-seeking missiles, could not do its job properly, leaving the jet with poor defence. The system was developed by , Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited.

It was not the only faltering system on-board the LCA. The self protection jammer that blocks the enemy radar was too big to be fitted into the Mark-I version of the LCA and the radar warning receiver, which alerts the pilots on hostile enemy signals, perform poorly. Both were developed by Bangaluru-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment.


"LCA Mark-I remains deficient in full electronic warfare capabilities as specified in the Air Staff Requirement (ASR),” the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) says in a review report that was tabled in Parliament on Friday.

The aircraft, which achieved initial operational clearances on December 2013, has as many as 53 shortfalls from the specifications drawn in the ASR.


Some of the shortcomings like increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, pilot protection from the front and reduced speed are to be addressed in the Mark-II version that was taken up by the Aeronautical Development Agency in 2009 and scheduled for completion in 2018.

Even after 30 years, the LCA could get only the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2013. The full operational clearance (FOC) is now targeted in December, 2015.

The cost is also rising all these years. What began as a Rs 560 crore programme in 1983 has now gone up by almost twenty times. The financial package for LCA now stands at Rs 8294 crore.

The auditor also criticised the Defence Ministry for awarding two commercial contracts to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in 2006 and 2010 for delivering 20 fighter planes in each contract in the IOC and FOC configurations respectively to the IAF.

Both were termed premature because in 2006 LCA design was nowhere near finalisation, whereas in 2010 HAL was yet to supply any aircraft to the force as per the previous contract. Even now, the IAF is not in a to operationalise the LCA squadron in the absence of a trainer aircraft. Moreover, HAL’s production capacity - four aircraft per year - is only half of what the government wants.
DH News Service

 

[I M Sikander]

LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines


KALYAN RAY, NEW DELHI, MAY 08,2015, DHNS:

Tejas light combat aircraft
The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) will experience a major handicap in defeating the enemy due to non-availability and poor performance of three electronic warfare instruments, developed by Indian agencies.


During the trial, the all-important counter measure dispensing system that protects the aircraft against radar and heat-seeking missiles, could not do its job properly, leaving the jet with poor defence. The system was developed by , Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited.

It was not the only faltering system on-board the LCA. The self protection jammer that blocks the enemy radar was too big to be fitted into the Mark-I version of the LCA and the radar warning receiver, which alerts the pilots on hostile enemy signals, perform poorly. Both were developed by Bangaluru-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment.


"LCA Mark-I remains deficient in full electronic warfare capabilities as specified in the Air Staff Requirement (ASR),” the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) says in a review report that was tabled in Parliament on Friday.

The aircraft, which achieved initial operational clearances on December 2013, has as many as 53 shortfalls from the specifications drawn in the ASR.


Some of the shortcomings like increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, pilot protection from the front and reduced speed are to be addressed in the Mark-II version that was taken up by the Aeronautical Development Agency in 2009 and scheduled for completion in 2018.

Even after 30 years, the LCA could get only the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2013. The full operational clearance (FOC) is now targeted in December, 2015.

The cost is also rising all these years. What began as a Rs 560 crore programme in 1983 has now gone up by almost twenty times. The financial package for LCA now stands at Rs 8294 crore.

The auditor also criticised the Defence Ministry for awarding two commercial contracts to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in 2006 and 2010 for delivering 20 fighter planes in each contract in the IOC and FOC configurations respectively to the IAF.

Both were termed premature because in 2006 LCA design was nowhere near finalisation, whereas in 2010 HAL was yet to supply any aircraft to the force as per the previous contract. Even now, the IAF is not in a to operationalise the LCA squadron in the absence of a trainer aircraft. Moreover, HAL’s production capacity - four aircraft per year - is only half of what the government wants.
DH News Service

So thats all folks

An official confession of LCA as a failed, impotent and delayed product.

All tall claims of a LCA as 4.5+ generation jet, finally licking the dust at the hands of technical auditors.

 

[Indian Patriot]

LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines


KALYAN RAY, NEW DELHI, MAY 08,2015, DHNS:

Tejas light combat aircraft
The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) will experience a major handicap in defeating the enemy due to non-availability and poor performance of three electronic warfare instruments, developed by Indian agencies.


During the trial, the all-important counter measure dispensing system that protects the aircraft against radar and heat-seeking missiles, could not do its job properly, leaving the jet with poor defence. The system was developed by , Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited.

It was not the only faltering system on-board the LCA. The self protection jammer that blocks the enemy radar was too big to be fitted into the Mark-I version of the LCA and the radar warning receiver, which alerts the pilots on hostile enemy signals, perform poorly. Both were developed by Bangaluru-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment.


"LCA Mark-I remains deficient in full electronic warfare capabilities as specified in the Air Staff Requirement (ASR),” the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) says in a review report that was tabled in Parliament on Friday.

The aircraft, which achieved initial operational clearances on December 2013, has as many as 53 shortfalls from the specifications drawn in the ASR.


Some of the shortcomings like increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, pilot protection from the front and reduced speed are to be addressed in the Mark-II version that was taken up by the Aeronautical Development Agency in 2009 and scheduled for completion in 2018.

Even after 30 years, the LCA could get only the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2013. The full operational clearance (FOC) is now targeted in December, 2015.

The cost is also rising all these years. What began as a Rs 560 crore programme in 1983 has now gone up by almost twenty times. The financial package for LCA now stands at Rs 8294 crore.

The auditor also criticised the Defence Ministry for awarding two commercial contracts to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in 2006 and 2010 for delivering 20 fighter planes in each contract in the IOC and FOC configurations respectively to the IAF.

Both were termed premature because in 2006 LCA design was nowhere near finalisation, whereas in 2010 HAL was yet to supply any aircraft to the force as per the previous contract. Even now, the IAF is not in a to operationalise the LCA squadron in the absence of a trainer aircraft. Moreover, HAL’s production capacity - four aircraft per year - is only half of what the government wants.
DH News Service

Bring up all the facts you want, they won't listen. I even got a neg rating for saying the truth. LOL!!

 

[Bobby]

LCA will not be able to penetrate enemy lines


KALYAN RAY, NEW DELHI, MAY 08,2015, DHNS:

Tejas light combat aircraft
The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) will experience a major handicap in defeating the enemy due to non-availability and poor performance of three electronic warfare instruments, developed by Indian agencies.


During the trial, the all-important counter measure dispensing system that protects the aircraft against radar and heat-seeking missiles, could not do its job properly, leaving the jet with poor defence. The system was developed by , Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Limited.

It was not the only faltering system on-board the LCA. The self protection jammer that blocks the enemy radar was too big to be fitted into the Mark-I version of the LCA and the radar warning receiver, which alerts the pilots on hostile enemy signals, perform poorly. Both were developed by Bangaluru-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment.


"LCA Mark-I remains deficient in full electronic warfare capabilities as specified in the Air Staff Requirement (ASR),” the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) says in a review report that was tabled in Parliament on Friday.

The aircraft, which achieved initial operational clearances on December 2013, has as many as 53 shortfalls from the specifications drawn in the ASR.


Some of the shortcomings like increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, pilot protection from the front and reduced speed are to be addressed in the Mark-II version that was taken up by the Aeronautical Development Agency in 2009 and scheduled for completion in 2018.

Even after 30 years, the LCA could get only the initial operational clearance (IOC) in December 2013. The full operational clearance (FOC) is now targeted in December, 2015.

The cost is also rising all these years. What began as a Rs 560 crore programme in 1983 has now gone up by almost twenty times. The financial package for LCA now stands at Rs 8294 crore.

The auditor also criticised the Defence Ministry for awarding two commercial contracts to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in 2006 and 2010 for delivering 20 fighter planes in each contract in the IOC and FOC configurations respectively to the IAF.

Both were termed premature because in 2006 LCA design was nowhere near finalisation, whereas in 2010 HAL was yet to supply any aircraft to the force as per the previous contract. Even now, the IAF is not in a to operationalise the LCA squadron in the absence of a trainer aircraft. Moreover, HAL’s production capacity - four aircraft per year - is only half of what the government wants.
DH News Service

LCA and FC1 both are not capable of crossing enemy line....