India’s submarines make strategic move to dominate Indian Ocean

[Longhorn]

what ? what makes you think so ?
please let me know, i'm really curious. And if it is what I think it is you have something to learn.

I didn't mean to offend and I'm always willing to learn.
In fact I'm very curious.
Educate me.

 

[serenity]

Indian economy was shit 5 years before covid! Already blaming covid as if Indians had white slaves hahahahaha

 

[ziaulislam]

India’s Submarines Make Strategic Move To Dominate Indian Ocean

H I Sutton

Jun 20, 2020

The Indian Navy is discretely building up its submarine capabilities. The most visible aspect of India’s programs are new nuclear-powered submarines that are being built, but beneath the surface there are other strategic steps to help ensure its Navy’s dominance of the Indian Ocean. The Navy is also reinforcing its presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, close to the strategically vital Strait of Malacca.

This is against a backdrop of heightened tensions with China. These look as if they could turn explosive at any moment despite efforts to deescalate. Most recently a border clash in the Galwan Valley left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead. The Indian Navy may be playing an active part in that crisis, far away from the sea, but its focus remains the Indian Ocean and the Strait of Malacca.

This is critical because China’s naval power is growing, and with it the ability to project power into the Indian Ocean. Analysts see a massive increase in the Chinese Navy, known as the PLAN, over the coming years. Writing in the Sunday Guardian, Captain James E. Fanell recently predicted that the PLAN will have 110 submarines by 2030. But the Strait of Malacca will remain a bottleneck between China’s home waters and the Indian Ocean.

China’s next generation Type-095 submarines, which are approaching first launch, will get stealthier and more advanced. But more importantly, they are expected to be much larger, which translates into longer-range missions.

China’s current Type-093 Shang Class is nuclear powered, so it already has virtually unlimited range, but they are smaller on the inside than many other nuclear subs. This limits its crew and its endurance since human factors become a major constraint on nuclear submarine range.

If the Chinese Navy plans to venture into the Indian Ocean, then the larger Type-095 will be a major boost to their capabilities. China already has a naval base in Djibouti that gives it a permanent presence in the region. And there is work going on at Gwadar port in Pakistan that is rumored to include another overseas base for the Chinese Navy.

Closer to home, India's traditional foe, the Pakistani Navy, is also modernizing and expanding its submarine fleet. This includes new patrol submarines from China, and also updating its special forces ‘X-Craft’ midget submarines.

With these emerging threats in the Indian Ocean, India’s established submarine bases needed updating. The ones on the east coast, in the Bay of Bengal, give natural protection from the the Pakistani Navy, which is on India’s western flank. INS Varsha, a new submarine base, is being built there to house India’s nuclear submarine deterrent. This is termed strategic depth. But the east coast bases are still some way away from the Strait of Malacca, which could be critical in a future conflict.

With Indian submarines now sometimes operating from Port Blair in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, which are Indian territory much further east, they will be better placed to respond to a crisis there. Indian diesel-electric submarines are well suited to operating in the relatively shallow waters there. They could act as a buffer and forward eyes for India’s nuclear submarines patrolling the deep waters.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutt...ove-to-dominate-in-indian-ocean/#48b4618c604f

Whats subs..india hardly operates a dozen..most of them are 30 years old...
Except for few recent scorpions
The backbone sindhugosh subs are 30+ years old on their last legs ..the type 209 are almost 30 years old as well ..all of them need urgent upgrades..
In total india has 14 subs..2 in retrofit..

You cant "dominate" such a vast ocean with 12 subs..pakistan has 5x smaller coast and operate 5 subs..

 

[baconlover]

I didn't mean to offend and I'm always willing to learn.
In fact I'm very curious.
Educate me.

you didn't tell me why you thought I should be "on the other side"

 

[Longhorn]

you didn't tell me why you thought I should be "on the other side"

I thought you knew.

 

[GamoAccu]

Copy and paster's note:

I have noticed in the last few days with articles and reports (from all around the Internet) on the confrontation between India and China that the Indian media is pro-India, the Chinese media is pro-China and the Pakistani media is pro-China. This was all expected. However, most of the Western media outlets are sort of neutral or pro-India (such as the one in the original post).

For example, in The Netherlands where they usually do not give a flying, swimming or walking f*ck about India or South Asians in general, they reported, albeit shortly, the confrontation between India and China on the national news. In this report they said that there were 20 casualties on the Indian side and 23 on the Chinese side, although they did say that the Chinese number was unconfirmed. These numbers, however, made it seem that it was India who won the confrontation or at least that is was a tie.

Also, a couple of weeks ago (8 june 2020), I read an article from a weekly conservative national news and opinion magazine 'Elsevier Weekblad' with a title that was a quote from a Dutch diplomat stating that 'India and the United States are finding each other against China' (Dutch: 'India en Amerika vinden elkaar tegen China')(https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/ned...en-amerika-vinden-elkaar-tegen-china-205289w/).

The West is obviously pitting India against China. They already supported India before against China, but then the support was more subtle. Now it seems that they are more open about it.
The problem however is the corruption and incompetence of the Indian Army.
The support of the West will, because of this, not result in achieving what they want, which is to stop China.
So, I do think that if the West bets on India, it will be a wrong bet.

Please tell the Netherlands media to update the death count on the China side to 56.

 

[Aaloo Tikki]

First IAF did it.
Then IA did
Now IN.

More humiliation is coming into our ways.

Hey Ram!!!

 

[GamoAccu]

Some links as an answer to you question:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...nce-society-corruption-act-1599835-2019-09-16

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/corruption-in-army

https://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/c...he-indian-army-proves-to-be-resilient-2639258

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Corruption_in_defence_procurement_in_India

https://www.indianmirror.com/corruption/armedforces-corruption.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ternational/articleshow/49655141.cms?from=mdr

https://www.india.com/news/india/ge...in-military-housing-projects-reports-3749782/



Do you think that when an actually war will happen between India and China, that Western countries will join India?
I do not think so.
They might provide some logistic support, satellite data and (useless) diplomatic statements and resolutions but that would be it. Nothing more.
India would be on her own.

Please tell Netherlands media the death count is now 30

https://twitter.com/x/status/1273337237250338821

 

[baconlover]

I thought you knew.

That I should be anti-China because I have affinity with TW ?
If that's what you thought then you're very mistaken.

TW people are ethnic Chinese, we share the same DNA, history, culture, language (not languageS, unlike the crazy Indian diversity (baggage) ) ,values etc etc.
Heck - at the end of day - we (TW Chinese & China Chinese) have more similarity and kinship than say that of Tamil & Kanada people, never mind the Indian South-vs-North business LOL.

It's all politics that twists reality and manipulates people and say this & that.
Governments come and go, today CCP tomorrow something else. I don't have to support Trump to be American and I don't have to agree with the CCP to be Chinese.

 

[Robbie]

Whats subs..india hardly operates a dozen..most of them are 30 years old...
Except for few recent scorpions
The backbone sindhugosh subs are 30+ years old on their last legs ..the type 209 are almost 30 years old as well ..all of them need urgent upgrades..
In total india has 14 subs..2 in retrofit..

You cant "dominate" such a vast ocean with 12 subs..pakistan has 5x smaller coast and operate 5 subs..

That's because PN is a submarine first Navy. IN is not.

 

[jk007]

Because of Tibet Plateau, China has dominant advantage over the border conflict

@windywine
Tibet is at a higher level.....I read some articles which say that PLAAF fighters / bombers can not take-off full weight / capability due to rarefied atmosphere in the heights.....where as Indian fighters do not have that problem. Do you agree?

(Note: India's most essence area is just three hundred kilometers away from the border, which is under china's conventional weapons attack range),

Which is the area that is 300 kms away and essence area you are referring to?

Please tell me honestly:
a) If (big IF) china goes back to pre-april / may status quo, what did China achieve with all this?
b) Does Chinese think that they messed-up relations with India, when India is indulging them (trade deficits etc etc)?
c) India will have to deal with 2-front situation? Don't you think that China will also have to deal with 2-front situation from now on?
d) If China can push India, then what will the smaller nations conclude? My impression - they cannot be neutral anymore. It is has to be China camp or opposite camp. No neutrality anymore. Do you agree?
e) 1962 war woke-up Indians from delusions of Peace (problem with us Indians) etc and make them allocate better resources to war machine. This latest situation will further speed up the military-industrial complex in India. Is that in China's interests?
f) If there is no 1962 war, our great Nehru would have lived for 100 or more years and would have committed blunder after blunder........
g) Please tell me about the latest situation from Chinese perspective? (1) If China intend to keep the lands that China marched into, it will create lot of angst in India (similar to the angst the Pak feel about India. Pak nation is so convinced that Kashmir belongs to them.). Is that in China's interests?....(2) If you vacate those lands and go back to pre-april status quo, what did China achieve other than pushing India into the other camp?

All Chinese nationals - Please respond.

 

[baconlover]

All Chinese nationals - Please respond.

Only Chinese nationals should respond ??? LOL
don't be such a one-track mind.


a) This was simply a periodic reminder: "Hey Indian friends - we have unresolved border - that's NOT good !"

b) don't understand the question

c) That's PRECISELY what China wants to avoid - get border issue settled so it can deal head on with the mighty USA. China has zero interest in f**king with India. Just want to get this shit resolved and back to normally scheduled programming (and deal with that BIG guy USA coming to its door) - China has more neighbors than anyone else - settled land border with ALL of them EXCEPT India & Bhutan (same shit, thanks to India's semi colonization).

It is India that has been in bad faith.
Just saying "we want peace" is useless.
Action speaks louder than words.

d) smaller nations - at the state level they know the purpose behind it. Their leaders know no state as large and significant as China wants to simply "push" another significant state like India. This is not the streets.
they know what I said in #c.

e) You can't say you want peace yet keep poking people in the eyes. India CAUSED China to go into action in 62.

f) maybe, maybe not.

g) Think of the big picture. mere x sq. KM is irrelevant.
It is your stupid, non-working "democrazy" that locked India into a situation whereby things like border ratification is not possible to be realized, so you need to keep worrying.


Most Indians have this fantasy that India is some 100%-innocent, peace-loving, Gods-loving, no-want-trouble sweet angel of a country, that it's impossible India could do bad things

"oh only other people mess with us, we are always innocent...."

THERE'S NO SUCH STATE ON THIS PLANET (other than maybe, just maybe NZ, but it's in the "5 Eyes")

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Copy and paster's note:

I have noticed in the last few days with articles and reports (from all around the Internet) on the confrontation between India and China that the Indian media is pro-India, the Chinese media is pro-China and the Pakistani media is pro-China. This was all expected. However, most of the Western media outlets are sort of neutral or pro-India (such as the one in the original post).

For example, in The Netherlands where they usually do not give a flying, swimming or walking f*ck about India or South Asians in general, they reported, albeit shortly, the confrontation between India and China on the national news. In this report they said that there were 20 casualties on the Indian side and 23 on the Chinese side, although they did say that the Chinese number was unconfirmed. These numbers, however, made it seem that it was India who won the confrontation or at least that is was a tie.

Also, a couple of weeks ago (8 june 2020), I read an article from a weekly conservative national news and opinion magazine 'Elsevier Weekblad' with a title that was a quote from a Dutch diplomat stating that 'India and the United States are finding each other against China' (Dutch: 'India en Amerika vinden elkaar tegen China')(https://www.elsevierweekblad.nl/ned...en-amerika-vinden-elkaar-tegen-china-205289w/).

The West is obviously pitting India against China. They already supported India before against China, but then the support was more subtle. Now it seems that they are more open about it.
The problem however is the corruption and incompetence of the Indian Army.
The support of the West will, because of this, not result in achieving what they want, which is to stop China.
So, I do think that if the West bets on India, it will be a wrong bet.

Great and sensible post.

Pakistan and China have very real reasons for being united in this confrontation, as the futures of our countries are determined by what happens to J&K.

Indian response is also predictable. This is how it was in 27 Feb 2019 also.

Western cheerleading is expected too, as is them avoiding direct help to India. They simply do bot have the manpower, support, or ability to interfere in Galwan.

With Pakistan, China, Nepal, and seemingly BD, Bhutan, Sri Lanka on the same side. India should really be worried. Time of reckoning has come.

 

[baconlover]

Do not fire weapon in port, not even your own