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India's strong GDP data leaves economists scratching their heads

Vedic Math is hard to understand after all.
Lol.. .

The topic is not India vs China.I am well aware who is what.You have intervened here & spreading dump scraps..

India's data has never been manipulated but the calculation methods have been changed publicly.Changed for more accurate approximation.Go through central statistics website.Different economics might have different opnion over procedure like in every country.Their statements are caught by media & often given political angle..

Data manipulation is not so easy in India as thousands of mature economists are sitting in opposition to attack on ruling party & they all have right to file a RTI & within constitution you can expose any corruption & manipulation..
You have no clue about the thing you are babbling on..
You can post any manifest you want about your data. Sane people will not believe it at any given rate. :D

Why are the chinese like rot feeling so insecure ? Is it because their bubble economy is going to burst with trump incharge ? Chairman mao would not be happy. Of to the orientation camps.
You should quote me sometimes when you feel like talking. :D
 
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Do you honestly believe your numbers?

From what I have talked with top people I know in core industries like cement, food, transport, energy....no real reason not to. Of course my snapshot will vary from other financial groups snapshot and of course the whole govt's snapshot methods and data.

There may be some further lagged effects especially on GVA that kick in over a couple more quarters....but continued higher tax collection (esp when demonetisation "formalisation", taxing of deposited black money + GST kicks in) will mitigate that, maybe even be net positive this short term itself (we will get a good first indication of that end of march).

Agricultural numbers are very hard to fake. The 6% growth here (over expected 4.6% growth) will translate into more sales of motorcycles, tractors and demand for irrigation supplies etc.. (these numbers will be presented over time and we can cross-verify down the road). So can all these numbers be faked...that too getting private companies to do so? I don't think so....that's why they will be good indicators. Thats why they have been used to cross-verify previous data released by the CSO as well (and provided corrective factors).

So with that and the much better performance of manufacturing, mining etc than expected on the face of it, is it really that surprising that there is about 1% higher quarter growth than what was the weighted poll expectation of 6.1% (in ET now) ...which under-predicted growth of kharif sowing by a huge factor? This is just 1 quarter as well.....JP morgan chase was probably the best overall prediction, predicting a drop of 0.1% growth from earlier FY estimate of 7.1% to 7.0%. So its not like absolutely no one in the profession thought the short term effect would be minimal (esp given we are talking about formal economy here).

The govt should definitely make a priority in publishing the back series for better comparison with historical growth under the older methodology of factor cost...that is really the only "fake" "conspiracy" realm you guys have some chance of questioning reasonably and should be attacking to score some good points ....rather than this CSO data.

Why the govt has not done this also has various reasons (which can be explored), but the topic as far as I am aware has not even come up on this forum.

So in summary, we can wait and see what are the real physical goods numbers that materialise across the year....and then try to split their overall net change.....into how much they were adversely impacted by demonetisation +benefited by it + impacted by GST + benefited by GST. The direct levels of some of them will immediately tell us if this 7.0% growth number was a valid estimate on the face of it....but there will be a lag in when they are released across this year. In fact it is this data that will provide corrections for this quarter's growth number....and could be worse, better or negligible difference. Let's see.
 
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Lol.. .


You can post any manifest you want about your data. Sane people will not believe it at any given rate. :D
We don't have any dependency on the thought process of two penny spam.You are free to think whatever you want.:enjoy:
 
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Our economy is just in second gear. When all administrative reforms are put in place, India shall rise between 9 to 10% easily.

why not just rise between 49 to 50%? just a humble question
just checking for the IQ if someone of you can decipher it ... lol
I know you are a very High IQ guy but let me tell you that this was our groth rate for many financial years in past and we can achieve that easily in future.

are you referring to GDP growth in specific quarter or segment of quarter or was that average maintained GDP growth for a whole FY or for FY's? hope it is not a touch and go

Please decipher it for me as well ... Thanks!!!
 
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The strong data have also reignited the debate about the credibility as well as the quality of the official GDP data.

Ever since India changed its methodology to measure economic activity two years back, which transformed a sluggish economy into the world's fastest-growing major economy overnight, private economists have been struggling to square it with the not so rosy reality on the ground.

The latest data has only added to the confusion.

For example, the official figures show economic growth was primarily driven by consumer spending, offsetting a fall in government expenditure. However, this is not backed up by the earnings of consumer goods firms in the last quarter.

As cash-strapped households turned wary, sales of various goods from beverages to domestic appliances to cars all plunged. The lacklustre consumer spending prompted several companies to trim their revenue outlook.

Consumer confidence also fell sharply, with households uncertain about their income, employment and spending capability, according to an RBI survey published this month.

"There are widespread doubts about the accuracy of the national accounts numbers," analysts at Capital Economics wrote. "The unexpected strength of today's data will do nothing to allay these concerns."


Hmmmm.. Seems like most have missed this vital part of that article and just going on about the headline
 
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From what I have talked with top people I know in core industries like cement, food, transport, energy....no real reason not to. Of course my snapshot will vary from other financial groups snapshot and of course the whole govt's snapshot methods and data.

There may be some further lagged effects especially on GVA that kick in over a couple more quarters....but continued higher tax collection (esp when demonetisation "formalisation", taxing of deposited black money + GST kicks in) will mitigate that, maybe even be net positive this short term itself (we will get a good first indication of that end of march).

Agricultural numbers are very hard to fake. The 6% growth here (over expected 4.6% growth) will translate into more sales of motorcycles, tractors and demand for irrigation supplies etc.. (these numbers will be presented over time and we can cross-verify down the road). So can all these numbers be faked...that too getting private companies to do so? I don't think so....that's why they will be good indicators. Thats why they have been used to cross-verify previous data released by the CSO as well (and provided corrective factors).

So with that and the much better performance of manufacturing, mining etc than expected on the face of it, is it really that surprising that there is about 1% higher quarter growth than what was the weighted poll expectation of 6.1% (in ET now) ...which under-predicted growth of kharif sowing by a huge factor? This is just 1 quarter as well.....JP morgan chase was probably the best overall prediction, predicting a drop of 0.1% growth from earlier FY estimate of 7.1% to 7.0%. So its not like absolutely no one in the profession thought the short term effect would be minimal (esp given we are talking about formal economy here).

The govt should definitely make a priority in publishing the back series for better comparison with historical growth under the older methodology of factor cost...that is really the only "fake" "conspiracy" realm you guys have some chance of questioning reasonably and should be attacking to score some good points ....rather than this CSO data.

Why the govt has not done this also has various reasons (which can be explored), but the topic as far as I am aware has not even come up on this forum.

So in summary, we can wait and see what are the real physical goods numbers that materialise across the year....and then try to split their overall net change.....into how much they were adversely impacted by demonetisation +benefited by it + impacted by GST + benefited by GST. The direct levels of some of them will immediately tell us if this 7.0% growth number was a valid estimate on the face of it....but there will be a lag in when they are released across this year. In fact it is this data that will provide corrections for this quarter's growth number....and could be worse, better or negligible difference. Let's see.
Will get back to you on this.. .
 
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MODI: Master Of Doctored Information

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If anyone is interested they can read this article for the summary:

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...owth-beats-note-ban-blues-117022800844_1.html

The press conference in the middle of this goes into much more detail:


Reasons for skepticism (delayed revision impulse loading as more data comes in) are also discussed at the end.

If trolls here actually can understand all this coherently rather than resorting to the usual terminology of "Vedic math"/unbelievable and the other extreme "totally believable/pink of health" etc, I would be happy to take all their questions.

I just wish there are more informed posters like you mate, especially regarding economics (Have to admit not my strongest point), Most we encounter on these pages are "India Stronk, Modi Stronk" clowns most probably either prepubesant teens or college nerds with a lot of time to spare, I mean just look at the first two pages
 
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From what I have talked with top people I know in core industries like cement, food, transport, energy....no real reason not to. Of course my snapshot will vary from other financial groups snapshot and of course the whole govt's snapshot methods and data.

There may be some further lagged effects especially on GVA that kick in over a couple more quarters....but continued higher tax collection (esp when demonetisation "formalisation", taxing of deposited black money + GST kicks in) will mitigate that, maybe even be net positive this short term itself (we will get a good first indication of that end of march).

Agricultural numbers are very hard to fake. The 6% growth here (over expected 4.6% growth) will translate into more sales of motorcycles, tractors and demand for irrigation supplies etc.. (these numbers will be presented over time and we can cross-verify down the road). So can all these numbers be faked...that too getting private companies to do so? I don't think so....that's why they will be good indicators. Thats why they have been used to cross-verify previous data released by the CSO as well (and provided corrective factors).

So with that and the much better performance of manufacturing, mining etc than expected on the face of it, is it really that surprising that there is about 1% higher quarter growth than what was the weighted poll expectation of 6.1% (in ET now) ...which under-predicted growth of kharif sowing by a huge factor? This is just 1 quarter as well.....JP morgan chase was probably the best overall prediction, predicting a drop of 0.1% growth from earlier FY estimate of 7.1% to 7.0%. So its not like absolutely no one in the profession thought the short term effect would be minimal (esp given we are talking about formal economy here).

The govt should definitely make a priority in publishing the back series for better comparison with historical growth under the older methodology of factor cost...that is really the only "fake" "conspiracy" realm you guys have some chance of questioning reasonably and should be attacking to score some good points ....rather than this CSO data.

Why the govt has not done this also has various reasons (which can be explored), but the topic as far as I am aware has not even come up on this forum.

So in summary, we can wait and see what are the real physical goods numbers that materialise across the year....and then try to split their overall net change.....into how much they were adversely impacted by demonetisation +benefited by it + impacted by GST + benefited by GST. The direct levels of some of them will immediately tell us if this 7.0% growth number was a valid estimate on the face of it....but there will be a lag in when they are released across this year. In fact it is this data that will provide corrections for this quarter's growth number....and could be worse, better or negligible difference. Let's see.
Thank you for your post. Economy is not my strong point. But this is what I can do....
Posted by one of your brethren...
"No. The economy is actually being said to be growing at some level below 5% of GDP

Index of Industrial Production - DOWN
Exports from India - DOWN
Imports from outside - DOWN

WPI Inflation - BADLY DOWN
CPI Inflation - DOWN

Amount of Taxes - Rising (Service Tax+ Cesses used to be at 12.36%, now they are at 15%).

(You can verify these trends and figures.)

What these trends and figures means, it means that the demand for various products and services inside the country is more or less stagnated (means not growing), or growing at a much slower pace than it was 2 years back.
If the demand is less, obviously sale (visible in exports and imports, also WPI inflationary trends)is also less.

If less things are being sold and bought in the country, how is GDP rising or growing?

'GDP is an overall measure of the monetary value of net services and goods produced withing a country's borders in a specific time period.

So many eminent people in the country and outside has questioned the new way of calculating India's GDP (which was introduced in July 2014, after the new govt came into power), on the basis of all other relevant economic activity indicators.
The Equity Master - Finally, an Economist Explains Why the Indian GDP Growth Number Is Wrong - The 5 Minute WrapUp by Equitymaster
The Economist - The elephant in the stats
“GOVERNMENT statisticians shun the limelight, which only ever finds them when things go awry. So it is with India’s national bean counters, who are struggling to convince the world that an economy with idle factories, sagging exports and ailing banks grew by 7.5% in 2015, as their models purport to show. Ever since a new methodology for calculating GDP was adopted last year, India has appeared to be the world’s fastest-growing big economy, outpacing China. But scepticism about the data is growing even faster.”

India’s economic growth estimates overstated: Nobel laureate Deaton
Nobel Prize Winner Angus Deaton Says There Are Discrepancies in India’s Economic Data
Real GDP is growing at 5%, not 7.1%
Nikkei Asian Review : Indian economy: Analysts cast doubt on 7.6% GDP growth target- Nikkei Asian Review
Why Raghuram Rajan doesn’t trust India’s GDP numbers - Firstpost
Eleven reasons why India's 7.4% GDP growth is simply not believable - Firstpost
From last few years, people have been complaining and pointing to China fudging the real GDP growth numbers, now its going to be an year since same is happening for India’s GDP numbers as well.

Its a common practice in Corporate world for CEOs to project/show better growth of the organisation in financial terms, so that the stock markets dont react very negatively to their quarterly or annual financial results. Now the people in Govt, who wants to keep their own stock prices high (approval ratings in the general populace high), are going the same path. But the saddest part is these are the ‘elected officials’ supposed to work for the welfare of the general public, and are not expected to lie to the public."
 
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I just wish there are more informed posters like you mate, especially regarding economics (Have to admit not my strongest point), Most we encounter on these pages are "India Stronk, Modi Stronk" clowns most probably either prepubesant teens or college nerds with a lot of time to spare, I mean just look at the first two pages

Heh, well at least you got me.

I just ignore the usual waffle for the most part. @rott is a good guy, many Indian posters here just can't see past the veneer heh....so the troll wars commence.

Structurally, this whole years data has to come out for us to properly judge the impact (good and bad) in the short term of demonetisation. I have a hunch both good and bad will draw out longer than most people expected....what the exact net affect is on the ground (and how it impacts specific crucial groups of people and businesses) will be up in the air for a while longer. In theory it should have a lasting net benefit (how big is something we will have to give much more passage of time for).

But most people forget that a measure of this sort was needed at some point given the huge hot liquidity stuck among the filthy rich because of various "temporary fixes" the previous govt did to massage their massive debt fuelled spending. In a way far worse could have happened in future (as far as the effects on even the poor masses who had nothing to do with the black money accumulation) if the problem was left to become diabetic (it was in the pre-diabetes stage in my estimation since about 2010 and if the same trajectory was continued would have run the Indian economy into real serious trouble from 2020 onwards without a large enough wealth cushion like in more developed countries that have seen similar bubble busts). So the govt decided to pop the zit right now rather than waiting for it to become something much nastier....and in the process get some net positive crucial interest/voting on the subject (poor people often feel vested in such a process)....while taking a calculated risk in improving the economy structurally (or at least averting a real nasty scenario) long term.

Demonetisation was really the first step of ongoing "preventive remedy" steps by the current govt.

Step 2 is currently ongoing (benami companies):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/govt...ies-in-war-on-black-cash.480614/#post-9252141

Step 3 will be benami properties I believe.

It had to be done in this order, as going after 2 and 3 before 1 would have been futile.

Again all of this will have to be reviewed after we have given it time to take effect...and that could be quite long term. But the intentions of this govt on paper are so far quite satisfactory to me. They do deserve another term at least.

For now the basic summary (from this Q3 report) I feel is that the net tax collection increase (from greater formalisation of the economy + demonetisation helping this) will help tide over any short term losses from GVA (which you can call as the overall total "valuation" of every recorded producer) on paper. The impact on those outside the formal economy will of course only have a certain correlation with this, so the net win/lose for them will be much more difficult to gauge esp in the short term. That is what we will see really in the end on final consumption numbers of critical goods (which could be quite long term) and also election votes.
 
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Heh, well at least you got me.

I just ignore the usual waffle for the most part. @rott is a good guy, many Indian posters here just can't see past the veneer heh....so the troll wars commence.
:rofl:
I was just having my kind of fun.
I'll let the real economist do the debating. ;)
 
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:rofl:
I was just having my kind of fun.
I'll let the real economist do the debating. ;)

You do the same thing I do in the BD subforum (well I probably do a lot worse lol)....and even over there, there are a couple "equivalents" like me who can see past my banter hehe...and do engage seriously from time to time (and I much appreciate that when it happens).

It is the relative perceived position we all feel in relation to others....and we all like to blow off some steam about it. :P Only human I suppose.

I also was pretty hot-headed like these other folk most of the time and everywhere (at least it felt like it) etc when I first joined...I cooled over a period of time....and now it just bores me to see it heh....so I scroll all the way past till I feel theres something to contribute.

I just focus on learning and explaining now :angel:
 
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Nilgiri sucking up to the 35 rs chinese troll will get you kudos from the chinese beholden mods here , but no credibility.
I have seen so many Indians banned here in the last month but he seems to escape censure. Fine by me because every post of his reveals so much about chinese culture and his personal background.
 
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