Q. This nuclear submarine for which the reactor has been made by your team, how significant an achievement is that?
A. I think it is very significant because I think it represents a big leap forward in terms of the nuclear reactor technologies. For propulsion of a submarine, we require a very compact reactor and the pressurised water reactors are the most suited for building such compact power plant. We have come to this important milestone where on the basis of the design and manufacture of equipment and construction of this equipment within the country it has been possible to launch a nuclear submarine, which has indigenously built a nuclear reactor in it.
Q. So how different is a reactor in a nuclear submarine as compared to say a reactor if you see at Narora or Kakrapar or by way of scale?
A. There are several very distinguishing features and very important challenges. First, it's a moving system and particularly it's a ship so we have to have a reactor, which would work in spite of the different kinds of rolling, pitching motions. It could also be subjected to attacks supposing there's a depth charge near by. It should be able to withstand the kind of acceleration loads that will be seen on the components.
Q. What were the major challenges you had to overcome in trying to make this compact, can a fat man like this go into the submarine reactor, or do you need a man of a specific size and volume?
A. No sure, you can go, I have gone there several times I am sure even you can go but its not like walking in a five star hotel corridor, its certainly not like that. The challenges, see you have to develop these things from scratch so you have to first carry out the design, then you have to carry out development of several things which relate to reactor, which relate to enrichment, which relate to fuel manufacture and then you would have to work with industry because even the fabrication is a new technology. So there is a very large development cycle over very diverse areas of development, which has to be all successfully gone through.
Q. But people say or have constantly said that India doesn't have the expertise in enrichment. So does this criticality of the PRP as it is called lay to rest that India has the full capability of the enrichment?
A. Yes we have an enrichment plant at Mysore, the Rare Materials Plant and that plant has sufficient capacity to meet the requirements of this program and the very fact that this reactor is now running for three years so obviously we had got the fuel earlier than that.
Q. Will you be able to meet the requirements in coming years because the numbers of nuclear submarines are likely to increase?
A. Well I won't comment on that but we are ready to meet the requirement.
Q. So there will not be a fuel mismatch of the kind, which we saw in power reactors, happening in a strategic sector like the nuclear submarine?
A. I don't think so.
Q: Was this completely made in India?
A: Yes.
Q: Designed, fabricated and executed in India?
A: Yes, that's right, by Indian industries.
Q: And by Indian scientists?
A: Yes
Q: At Vizag, the Prime Minister went out of the way and thanked the Russians, and the Russian Ambassador was also present. What was the role of the Russians? India had leased a Russian nuclear submarine?
A: I would also like to thank our Russian colleagues. They have played a very important role as consultants. They have a lot of experience in this so their consultancy has been of great help. I think we should acknowledge that.
Q: Consultancy for what?
A: For various things, as you go along when you are doing things for the first time with a consultant by your side you can do it more confidently and these are difficult time-consuming challenges and so you have to do this without too much of iterative steps and consultancy helped in that.
Q: So this is not a Russian design?
A: It is an Indian design.
Q: Indian design, made in India, by Indians?
A: Yes, that's right.
Q. How many people were involved in this whole project?
A. Well, it's a very large team. The reactor project team itself would be a little more than hundred specialists but we also require people in the materials area, we also require people in other supporting systems and technologies so I think it will be several hundred people.
Q. You have had the system running here in Kalpakkam for several years. Has it functioned smoothly?
A. Yes, it's working extremely well.
Q. No outages, no issues?
A. Well this is run in a campaign mode because this is run in the same way as one would expect in the real situation so it is running in a campaign mode because I think the important thing is to be able to ramp up and come down and it is really doing extremely well.
Q. So you are satisfied with what is there on the land base system the PRP reactor in Kalpakkam?
A. Well it is working as per whatever were the design specifications, or whatever were the expectations. It is doing extremely well.
Q. And you expect it to perform the same way when it is in the submarine - pitching and rolling and turning?
A. Well I would hope so but I think time will tell, I am quite confident that it will work.
Q. It is believed that it will also carry some things, which the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre has developed [the nuclear bombs]. So will it really give India the second strike capability because we have a no first use policy?
A. Yes that is the purpose of such a platform.
Q. And this platform will ensure that?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you confident of that?
A. Of course I am confident.
Q. That is a scenario in which that would be very difficult to take care of and would a platform like this fail the nation at some point?
A. No, why should it? It has been designed with a lot of care, it has been tested at every point of time, even now a fair bit of testing is yet to be done, there will be harbour acceptance trials, there will be sea acceptance trials, then there will be launch trials so it will go through a sequential qualification and we must remember that this is a complex technology being done first time. I will not say that during these trials everything will be smooth but that is what the trials will reveal and all the problems would be fixed. So once we are in a deployed mode, I see no reason why there should be any difficulty.
Q. I am told it is about ten times smaller than a normal power reactor, is that correct?
A. Well if you want to construct a power reactor of a similar power capacity it would happen that way, yes.
Q. So would it be fair to call it a baby reactor?
A. It is a small reactor.
Q. Coming back to the issue of a baby, in 1974 you were a part of a team that did Pokhran-1 and you were described as the baby of the team and now that we have a baby reactor which will be under water giving us the second strike capability, how does it feel to you?
A. Well I don't feel much about these things so it's a job to be done and I am happy that the job has been done and I must say as far as this particular project is concerned, credit goes to people who did it and so there are many babies there who must have done it and so I think we should give credit to those babies.
Q. So just a job to be done? Protecting India is not a passion?
A. Well it's a passion but it's a long passion. There are many things to be done and we have to do them step-by-step. So this is one more step crossed. To that extent it is very satisfying but that is what it is and we have to carry on.
Q. So when can one expect to have criticality on the sea based reactor in the INS Arihant?
A. This will be essentially decided by the Navy, as I said they have a fairly elaborate sequence of activities through these trials and whenever the ready for going through the criticality, I am sure our people will facilitate that to happen quickly.
Q, One question which is often asked about this is that you are using enriched uranium, could you tell me or tell the world roughly what is the percentage of enrichment which has been used in the fuel?
A. No I am afraid I cannot tell you that.
Q. Any reason for that?
A. No I think this project is a classified project and it had to be kept so all along. With the launch of the mobile platform INS Arihant, it was necessary to sort of inform that there was this development which had taken place and that there was a facility which exists but still it's a classified facility so we cannot really divulge more than what is necessary to be divulged.
Q. It is a power reactor, it is generating electricity, why so much secrecy?
A. Yes but still its technological features are important in terms of the capability to will give to the platform and so its important to keep it that way or for that matter let the users decide, not me.
Q. Because I have come to Kalpakam so many times, I have been all over the place except this little building.
A. You have seen it today?
Q. I have seen it today for the first time in so many years.
A. May also be the last time.
Q. May also be the last time? Why?
A. Because after all, this is for a certain work which will carry on.
Q. So I am a lucky man to have walked in and seen it?
A. Well there are many other media colleagues along with you as well.
Q. But what we saw today of the prototype looks a compact, clean, very uncluttered system, how did you manage to do that?
A. Well, my colleagues have done it so through their meticulous work, through their detailed engineering and of course in terms of the lay outs and all I must also say that this is a joint activity, its a joint activity between the BARC, the ATV Project, the DRDO and of course Indian navy and developing the lay outs and there is this user interface and all- so all of them have worked together in terms of the lay outs and I think we should recognise the effort of the entire team that has worked together.
Q. Nuclear reactors for submarines are used normally for increasing the endurance, what is the kind of endurance you are being able to provide to INS Arihant?
A. Well it will be in fact in terms of the actual use for a nuclear submarine. The endurance is dictated more by human endurance rather than the energy of the power pack endurance, power pack endurance is usually much larger. So it's the human endurance- it can remain submerged depending upon the human endurance.
Q. So it was made for its endurance?
A. That's right.
Q. And you have been able to give that endurance which the Navy or the armed forces demanded?
A. That's Right.
Q. But what is that endurance?
A. Again I will not tell you.
Q. You will not tell me? Sitting in this place which is so secret, talking to me you will still not tell me?
A. I can tell you certain things, I cannot tell you certain things.
Q. So the endurance is out of bound, enrichment is out of bound?
A. See the fact is that its better we don't talk about the quantitative technical parameters, we don't talk about. But that its capability has been built is something that is important that we inform the nation.
Q. See most reactors which I have walked into and I have walked into several have walls which are as thick as two and a half metres. Now, in a submarine which is just a 100 plus metres in length, what is the kind of shielding you have provided so that the crew remains safe?
A. Obviously it requires shielding which is much more dense than concrete because space is at a premium yet also design the geometry in such a way that you optimize the total weight. Again, because the weight has to be kept to a minimum so it is essentially made out of high density metallic materials and also geometrically optimized so that the weight and the space is kept to a most optimum level.
Q. So the crew will be safe? They will not be exposed to any radiation?
A. Yes, there are actually standards and the radiation exposure will be well below that standard. In fact we had that experience already in the land base and we are quite happy with the performance.
Q. And will this submarine leave radioactive trace behind it because you have some kind of shadow shielding?
A. No, none at all. Because that has been factored into the design and there will be absolutely no trace left behind.
Q. So once the vessel dives it can remain hidden from Vizag to Mumbai all through?
A. Yes as long as it is submerged it will remain hidden and it can remain submerged for a long time.
Q: Is the noise level comparable to other submarines of this class, since that is one way of detecting submarines?
A: Yes, I think so. You have seen the inside and tell me if you felt some sound there?
Q: Compared to a power reactor the sound was minimal.
A: Compared to machinery running in any other places, did you hear much sound? I think this is very quiet system.
Q. It is a quiet system and compared to other world reactors which are used in submarines how good is this development. This reactor which you have made?
A. Well we had tried to do the best and I have not seen the submarine abroad so I don't know, I cannot compare.
Q. But you have read literature?
A. I think that it meets the requirements.
Q. How does it compare to the other nations like France and Russia?
A. I think it will be comparable but I can't, I don't have the quantitative numbers but it should be certainly comparable.
Q. So should India and Indians be proud of this?
A. Of course, all of us should be very proud of it because it's India built technology.
Q. Are you happy with the product that you have delivered and developed?
A. Extremely happy.
Q. Should India feel secure because we now have nuclear weapons, we have a no first use and now we will probably have some years down the line a naval platform with a second strike capability?
A. Well I think again we certainly should feel secure and confident but no complacency, given this platform some more work could be done and we should do that work expeditiously. I am sure which is what will happen.
So that was Dr Kakodkar telling us that he is very happy with what he has developed. The nuclear reactor on board, the INS Arihant, some time from now, will be put to criticality, used and tested and only then will India have its much needed mobile platform to have its second strike capability because we already have a no first use policy for our nuclear weapons as an essential requirement.
India joins elite nuclear club with N-submarines
