'India's secret N-submarine project nearing completion'

[Jako]

How? Buy it from China? Chinese won't ever lease a nuclear weapon. The only way to own a nuclear sub is to create it. It took India 30 years. Pakistan hasnt even begun.

Third strike option already exists. A Tactical air-strike by Su-30 with nuke tipped missiles. It only needs to be illustrated to the extent of being incorporated as one of the availible options.

nuclear submarine is not a nuclear weapon.....it can be bought from other country.....india leased one from russia in eighties,and again will recieve the akula next year.....

 

[TOPGUN]

Of course, it will.

But who cares.

every country will keep making more and more missiles, bombs and than eventually the whole world will blow up with these bombs.

Yea who cares right we aren't worried about it!

 

[Jako]

Posted and discussed!!!

 

[Screaming Skull]

First of all as a Military Professional, I congratulate my Indian counterparts on the achievement of launching the Nuke Sub ahead of its projected launch time

Spoken like a true MP.

with the major help from Ruskies.

Ruskies provided consultancy only! The entire sub was built in India by Indian agencies. PHWR by BARC, Sensors by NPO (DRDO), Hull by L&T and missiles and other armaments by DRDO. Though I suspect that the sub grade steel and anechoic tiles might have been imported from Russia. Another area where the Russians might have helped is in the stealth and noise suppression department as you need a lot of design experience for that.

A lot will now depend on the outcome of the extensive sea trials of this behemoth

True!

which frankly resembles a 'Badly Copied' version of Russian Akula Class. The missile launch tubes are placed horizontal rather then the standard vertical.

Now, how did you reach to those conclusions? There isn’t a single pic of the sub released by the MoD. Even the journalists who were invited to the launch party could see only the partly submerged sub. Heck they weren’t even trained engineers to recount what they saw in technical terms!

Pakistan should not be worried;

Indeed it shouldn’t be worried as it is primarily meant for China. It is even docked in our east coast, far away from Pakistan and without any armaments at the moment.

I have always be the proponent of having vertical launch ability in our selective submarines for our smaller nukes such as the RAAD. Thanks to the Indians; our Navy HQ will now seriously consider this option.

Though you can carry cruise missiles in your subs, I don’t think they can be nuke tipped as that will be a violation of international treaties. Since, all your subs are imported, the supplier country is bound by these international laws and will never allow Pakistan to carry nukes in the subs supplied by them

Rest assured our spook teams will be keeping any eye on this vessel and its progress. Like the Israeli Phalcon Project; neutralizing this threat from the Indian Navy will just be a matter of time for PN.

If you mean spook teams to be intelligence agencies, then maybe but PN as of now doesn’t have the capability to trail any Indian sub in its east coast, let alone the fiercely guarded INS Arihant. It will leave for deep seas only after the Russian Akula-2 (Nerpa) has been acquired by IN, whose primary responsibility will be to provide escorts to Arihant. With an Akula-2 attack sub guarding the ATV, even the Chinese will think a gazillion times before sending their subs anywhere close to the Arihant.

As far as neutralizing an SSBN goes, it is possible only with a Nuclear powered attack submarine and I don’t think PN can get its hands on one in at least a decade.

 

[Choppers]

can ATV also be used as an attack submarine.What r the factors that differentiates nuke attack sub and normal nuke sub

 

[sabir]

I think nuke attack submarines donot carry ballistic missile and denoted as SSN as per US navy guide lines. other one is denoted as SSBN which carry ballistic missiles......SS for submarine....N for nuclear...B for ballistic missile. SSGN stands for submarine which carries cruise missile. I think Mr Skull has pointed out somewhere INS arihant was supposed to be an attack submarine. but as technology evolves the plan was modified and it has become a SSBN. BTW the missile sagorika that it will carry is considered a balistic missile...but somewhere i read it has some properties of cruise missile too. if it is true you can consider it a SSGN too.

 

[Screaming Skull]

can ATV also be used as an attack submarine.What r the factors that differentiates nuke attack sub and normal nuke sub

INS Arihant is a ballistic missile submarine (SSBN). Its primary role is to launch nuclear tipped ballistic missiles from under water. SSBNs are strategic assets for any country that possess them simply because an SSBN is the only invincible ballistic missile launch platform operational in the world. SSBNs world over carry ICBMs of over 7000km range. Also, they are generally huge so that they can accommodate a significant number of ballistic missiles and a relatively large crew and power plant. These are usually stationed far away from the theater of conflict from where they can launch long range ballistic missiles, thus ensuring that a country will always retain a second strike capability.

In India’s context, if the enemy is to delve us a crippling blow with a well planned first strike, taking out all our land based options, the SSBNs would still remain intact to launch a second strike. Hence, it is not an offensive weapon system. It only comes into play if the enemy chooses bring it into play. It is a very significant and potent weapon system to bolster India’s ‘no first use’ posture as the enemy can never be too confident of launching a first strike without expecting serious repercussions.

A nuclear attack submarine on the other hand has the primary responsibility of finding, tracking and/or destroying enemy subs. They may be used for intelligence gathering and other special operations also.
They are generally smaller, faster and stealthier than SSBNs and do not carry long range ballistic missiles. Attack submarines have always relied chiefly on torpedoes as weapons. They may also be armed with several kinds of short- or medium-range missiles that allow them to engage surface ships or other submarines beyond torpedo range. They carry cruise missiles as well.

INS Arihant needn’t be converted to an attack sub as it was primarily designed to be an SSBN, as per the priorities of our defence needs. We are acquiring Akula-2 class attack subs from Russia, which have a reputation of being the deadliest that Russia has ever produced. If you look back in the pages of this thread, you will find that PM MMS has already sanctioned the construction of our own attack subs.

 

[pakomar]

How? Buy it from China? Chinese won't ever lease a nuclear weapon. The only way to own a nuclear sub is to create it. It took India 30 years. Pakistan hasnt even begun.

Third strike option already exists. A Tactical air-strike by Su-30 with nuke tipped missiles. It only needs to be illustrated to the extent of being incorporated as one of the availible options.

Its not about buying from china it’s about arm race in the region. Due to which Asia will suffer economically.

 

[pakomar]

you can wait for that to happen .......till then you cant do a thing...

That the problem Pakistan never introduce arms race in south Asia. It’s always been India who got problems fighting almost all its neighbors and got silly dream to become super power .

 

[sabir]

hey ! you have not heard the news? India is getting back trilion of $ from swissbank what its currupt politicians deposited there. now got a clue where so much money is coming from...

woh **** ! i should have not told it to you...it was a secret !

anyway, you too can do something like that without harming the economy.

 

[aonjon]

How? Buy it from China? Chinese won't ever lease a nuclear weapon. The only way to own a nuclear sub is to create it. It took India 30 years. Pakistan hasnt even begun.

Third strike option already exists. A Tactical air-strike by Su-30 with nuke tipped missiles. It only needs to be illustrated to the extent of being incorporated as one of the availible options.

Thats funny, how you say it, as every nuclear capable nation has proliferated nuclear technology, even sold it sometimes! And if no one leases/sells SSN/SSBN's explain how India is going to lease 2 Akula II from Russia, with the option to buy after the lease expires? Are you a Chinese government employee, that you're predicting they won't do something similar?

The just launched Indian nuclear sub, INS Arihant, is nothing more than a copy of the Russian SSN Project 971/Schuka-B [Akula I class]. Even the displacement is the same, however the Indian copy is slightly smaller with half as many vertical launch tubes & a reactor with half the power output of its Russian original. Only big difference is that it took Indian's some 30+ years to copy the sub and paint SSBN on top of SSN [figuratively speaking].

Oh btw, a SSBN is the 3rd leg [or strike option as you call it] in a nuclear triad, ground and air being the 1st & 2nd. Any of these three can be used for 1st strike but the SSBN's are considered more capable of surviving a 1st/pre-emptive enemy strike so as to provide a 2nd strike capability, its also the hardest to detect and neutralize.

That the problem Pakistan never introduce arms race in south Asia. It’s always been India who got problems fighting almost all its neighbors and got silly dream to become super power .

Guess why India wont become any kind of power anytime soon? They will be bogged down in the South Asian sub-continent for a very long time to come, coz they keep picking fights with all their neighbors.

Superpower my foot. Just bring up the fact that India is just a poor 3rd world country with a per capita income of ~1000, [which cannot provide its poor and uneducated masses with the very basics, like food, clean water, living space or even bathrooms and] you'll see all these egotistic Indian's jumping up and down like bunch of primates! To these idiots India is the center of the universe, everything and anything must revolve around them!

 

[zombie]

You can lease a nuclear submarine(if someone is ready) without nuclear capable missiles beyond MTCR restrictions(that is if you want to follow current international laws). You can't buy them.

Next is the know how to maintain them. Nuclear submarines are highly complex and need a lot of training and skill. Imagine if USA leased to Bangladesh a Los Angeles class submarine and it bumped a Burmese fishing trawler.

 

[sabir]

Thats funny, how you say it, as every nuclear capable nation has proliferated nuclear technology, even sold it sometimes! And if no one leases/sells SSN/SSBN's explain how India is going to lease 2 Akula II from Russia, with the option to buy after the lease expires? Are you a Chinese government employee, that you're predicting they won't do something similar?

The just launched Indian nuclear sub, INS Arihant, is nothing more than a copy of the Russian SSN Project 971/Schuka-B [Akula I class]. Even the displacement is the same, however the Indian copy is slightly smaller with half as many vertical launch tubes & a reactor with half the power output of its Russian original. Only big difference is that it took Indian's some 30+ years to copy the sub and paint SSBN on top of SSN [figuratively speaking].

Oh btw, a SSBN is the 3rd leg [or strike option as you call it] in a nuclear triad, ground and air being the 1st & 2nd. Any of these three can be used for 1st strike but the SSBN's are considered more capable of surviving a 1st/pre-emptive enemy strike so as to provide a 2nd strike capability, its also the hardest to detect and neutralize.



Guess why India wont become any kind of power anytime soon? They will be bogged down in the South Asian sub-continent for a very long time to come, coz they keep picking fights with all their neighbors.

Superpower my foot. Just bring up the fact that India is just a poor 3rd world country with a per capita income of ~1000, [which cannot provide its poor and uneducated masses with the very basics, like food, clean water, living space or even bathrooms and] you'll see all these egotistic Indian's jumping up and down like bunch of primates! To these idiots India is the center of the universe, everything and anything must revolve around them!

Dear Anjon, We are not jumping like a bunch of primates to be a super-power...its friends like you ascribed upon us. we are not rich and welfed like you and our poor country men are deprived from basic needs which are available to all of you......we just try to protect our little belongings ....hope you will understand and wont bother to come in this stinky poormen's thread again....bhalo theko

 

[xebex]

And didn't the Russians help you build this thing? Salahuddin may be on to something

Asim, u think Russian subs are non reliable, arent ya?.Hmmm.....Dont you know Russia is the only one who built the largest and THE most fearsome submarine-The Typhoon class. It was so large that it even had a swimming pool in it.It was Considered as THE most lethal weapon in the coldwar even the Americans realized it could be a game changer. If Russians can build such a beast, getting their help would make perfect sense.

 

[xebex]

What force Indian to developed nukes when Pakistan did n t had nukes?
What force you to developed second option to strike nukes?
When India is already in no first use policy why the second option to strike nukes.

U just beamed down from another planet or something?? India developed its nukes to counter Chinese nuclear threat. Now, Last time when i checked India share border with China NOT only with Pakistan.The question is what made u think that Indian nukes were aimed at Pakistan.

India has a "No-First-Use" policy unlike Pakistan and China. So it is essential to have second strike capability to rip the azz of the attacker. After all what u expect...would u try punch back if somebody bleed ur nose?

India guarantee "No-First-Use" policy because we know we have a sure "Second Strike" capability. Otherwise whatz the point of having nukes.