India's Revenge: RAW Attacks Cricketers in Pakistan

[niaz]

It is a very sad day for cricket in general and Pakistani cricket in particular. I have to hang my head in shame that gallant Sri Lankan cricketers had to suffer this ordeal in my country.

Geo TV and media in general are pointing fingers at RAW. Knee jerk reaction to the event will find similarities to convince Pakistani public that it is tit for tat response to Mumbai episode. If true it also shows our police in very bad light, as they failed to kill a single attacker. Whereas Indians killed all but one, in Lahore on the other hand, all the attackers got away. What does it suggest?

More than likely most of the attackers were Pakistani nationals. The fact that they disappeared without a trace, even the van has not been found; suggests that within a few minutes driving from the location they had safe houses where they could be hide before and after the attack to melt way into the crowd as soon as the opportunity is presented. If RAW has so much capability inside Lahore then GOP should disband all the intelligence agencies and start from scratch.

Only people who have public support as well as the organization to carry out such daring attacks and get away with it are the sectarian organizations. Don’t forget the attack on Musharraf and on the Corps Commander in Karachi, Momenpura in Lahore and Madrassa teachers in Guru Mandir Karachi.

I am not implying that Taliban attacked Sri Lankan. A large section of criminal element has joined the Islamic terrorist organizations for personnel gain. A splinter group could have carried out this dastardly attack. It is difficult to tell a criminal terrorist killing for money from a Taliban doing it for Allah. The funding probably did come from RAW but one can’t be sure.

What I am cheesed about is that instead of try to find out what really went wrong, we have followed India’s line and started the blame game. For heavens sake! this has happened inside Pakistan, shouldn’t we, instead be asking how despite GOP guarantee to safeguard Sri Lankan team; no one reported the presence of armed men waiting in ambush in broad day light so close to the Qazafi Stadium? Blaming India for our security failure tantamount to saying, it was India what could we do, in other words just shrugging shoulders.

In the past we tend to condone dastardly acts. For example Daniel Pearl was Jew, so it did not matter that he was killed. Musharraf was a CIA agent, so it is okay to attack him. Our media was looking for some blue light on 4th floor of Marriott Islamabad in an attempt to cast doubt on the motives of the attackers. As a nation we have to resolve that any kind of terrorism is bad.

Hon Members and fellow countrymen, we will have to change our attitude. Only way forward is serious introspection. We must accept that WOT is not America’s war any more, it is a war for Pakistan’s survival. Unless we as Pakistani citizens try to reform ourselves, Pakistan is a gone case. It is a well-known saying that God helps those who help themselves; it seems that Pakistani nation at this point in time is imploding from within but no one seems to care.

 

[Proud2Indian]

Oh. And i used to wonder what took over the Hindu mob in gujrat on 22nd nov when they heard about a train bogey carrying their religious leaders was burnt, when they heard from neighbors that the people who burned the carriage was a group of muslims. I used to wonder what turned this mob into monsters. Now i know.

Whats the point here sire....Pls refrain from these childish post at this point of time.

tx

 

[Proud2Indian]

The direct repercussion of this incident will be Sport in general and Cricket in particular will suffer in Pakistan. This is also a high voltage act, to get the attention and effect Pakistan negatively.

Reading the discussion "who-dun-it" in this thread, there are very creative arguments & theories. Will share my thoughts
1) PA & Political parties - The effect of this incident is very negative for Pakistan. Its very unlikely than PA or local political parties will be involved in it. But if this is true, well GOD help Pakistan.
2) LTTE - Well in current circumstances its very difficult from them. Also for these missions they go for there "Black Tigers" or suicide mission. And the
if this is work of LTTE than this will be first time that LTTE will be using these tactics (Ambush\multiple gunmen working in unison etc).
3) TTP\Internal Grps - Again any patriotic person will not do this no matter how much he hate his govt.
4) RAW - First I thought they might be involved. And still they are No. 1 suspect in Pakistan. But as we know the India-Pak retaliation's, its very dangerous strategy. If RAW is behind that then ISI will surely try something like this and what we have protect in this case in not one or two teams, 8 teams (IPL). Whatever I say in against of this option will be looked as trying to defend RAW. In India we don't think very high of RAW but Pakistan members on this forum has diff view regarding RAW. THey have to decide if RAW is so fool to open this Pandora box when they know they can be replied in their own coin and we have more assets to protect and that to round the year. As many have said India has most to gain but then again India has most to lose.
Also, as Pakistan political leadership has accepted the proof why India will try to do something which can make it lose all the sympathy it earned in Mumbai aftermath.

I think whoever is behind this is has got very twisted ideology. and for them what matter is End Result they want. No matter what is the cost and who pays it.


Tx

 

[Proud2Indian]

If true it also shows our police in very bad light, as they failed to kill a single attacker. Whereas Indians killed all but one, in Lahore on the other hand, all the attackers got away. What does it suggest?

I don't think police has failed. Nobody has thought of such attack. Policemen gave there life. I think it was there fierce resistance that caused the attakers to flee and saved the SL team. I don't think even Police in Pakistan is trained for these type of combats. Yes sir this was combat and I think Police acted very bravely.

More than likely most of the attackers were Pakistani nationals. The fact that they disappeared without a trace, even the van has not been found; suggests that within a few minutes driving from the location they had safe houses where they could be hide before and after the attack to melt way into the crowd as soon as the opportunity is presented. If RAW has so much capability inside Lahore then GOP should disband all the intelligence agencies and start from scratch.

Only people who have public support as well as the organization to carry out such daring attacks and get away with it are the sectarian organizations. Don’t forget the attack on Musharraf and on the Corps Commander in Karachi, Momenpura in Lahore and Madrassa teachers in Guru Mandir Karachi.

I am not implying that Taliban attacked Sri Lankan. A large section of criminal element has joined the Islamic terrorist organizations for personnel gain. A splinter group could have carried out this dastardly attack. It is difficult to tell a criminal terrorist killing for money from a Taliban doing it for Allah. The funding probably did come from RAW but one can’t be sure.

Well now when you have put idea in my mind, can underworld (Bokkies or whatever they r called) will be behind this. I know very unlikely given the way whole ops is done.

What I am cheesed about is that instead of try to find out what really went wrong, we have followed India’s line and started the blame game. For heavens sake! this has happened inside Pakistan, shouldn’t we, instead be asking how despite GOP guarantee to safeguard Sri Lankan team; no one reported the presence of armed men waiting in ambush in broad day light so close to the Qazafi Stadium? Blaming India for our security failure tantamount to saying, it was India what could we do, in other words just shrugging shoulders.

In the past we tend to condone dastardly acts. For example Daniel Pearl was Jew, so it did not matter that he was killed. Musharraf was a CIA agent, so it is okay to attack him. Our media was looking for some blue light on 4th floor of Marriott Islamabad in an attempt to cast doubt on the motives of the attackers. As a nation we have to resolve that any kind of terrorism is bad.

Hon Members and fellow countrymen, we will have to change our attitude. Only way forward is serious introspection. We must accept that WOT is not America’s war any more, it is a war for Pakistan’s survival. Unless we as Pakistani citizens try to reform ourselves, Pakistan is a gone case. It is a well-known saying that God helps those who help themselves; it seems that Pakistani nation at this point in time is imploding from within but no one seems to care.

It must be very difficult to be sane in these time. Keep it up.

 

[Stumper]

Whats the point here sire....Pls refrain from these childish post at this point of time.

tx

Which part of my post was childish sire? Earlier post suggested that indian can expect "Kiss-N-Hugs .. in retaliation". The word Retaliation reminded me of Godhra. Just drawing the comparison to highlight the sentiments/anger felt by some educated lot in this forum are similar to the sentiments felt by the rural folks of Godhra on 22nd Nov. It was anger. The wish to retaliate. The guys talking of Retaliation at this stage are no better than the riot monster's of Godhra on 22nd nov.

 

[Proud2Indian]

Which part of my post was childish sire? Earlier post suggested that indian can expect "Kiss-N-Hugs .. in retaliation". The word Retaliation reminded me of Godhra. Just drawing the comparison to highlight the sentiments/anger felt by some educated lot in this forum are similar to the sentiments felt by the rural folks of Godhra on 22nd Nov. It was anger. The wish to retaliate. The guys talking of Retaliation at this stage are no better than the riot monster's of Godhra on 22nd nov.

Godhra has nothing to do here. THAT WAS INTERNAL MATTER OF INDIA. PERIOD.



tx

 

[Energon]

If true it also shows our police in very bad light, as they failed to kill a single attacker. Whereas Indians killed all but one, in Lahore on the other hand, all the attackers got away. What does it suggest?

More than likely most of the attackers were Pakistani nationals. The fact that they disappeared without a trace, even the van has not been found; suggests that within a few minutes driving from the location they had safe houses where they could be hide before and after the attack to melt way into the crowd as soon as the opportunity is presented.

Niaz, I don't think its fair to derive conclusions based on the outcome of the incident. These assailants are extremely well trained and do a lot of groundwork prior to launching attacks. The security forces are by default at a disadvantage because they do not have the liberty of engaging in a no holds barred firefight in the middle of the street. They have to ensure the safety of the VIPs and also make sure they do not kill innocent bystanders in the mêlée. The attackers seemed to have known the area well and probably had support, so it wasn't too difficult for them to just "melt away" into the crowd amidst the chaos.

Also, I'm not sure there is too much value to the Mumbai comparisons considering the theaters of conflict, MO and objectives were very different. Operating in your own backyard (these attackers were most probably local) is always easier than launching an attack on a foreign city. Also in Mumbai their main intention was to "put on a big show" for the world's media to display their ruthlessness, intimidate civilians, affect foreign policy, humiliate the local security apparatus and most of all: inspire local Muslims to engage in similar acts. Ajmal Kasab's capture was a complete fluke.

In this case the primary objectives seems to be the dissolution of the Pakistani governmental apparatus by merely rocking an already beleaguered boat a bit more, and further diminish all ties to the outside world; hence all they had to do here was to launch a quick hit and run attack. I've heard a lot of criticisms about the security apparatus, but do not have enough information to reinforce or refute those assertions. However it is prudent to remember that playing armchair general on a hindsight battlefield is very easy.

If RAW has so much capability inside Lahore then GOP should disband all the intelligence agencies and start from scratch.

If the RA&W had even a fraction of the ability or competence to pull something like this off they could have prevented the slew of devastating attacks on their own home soil. If anybody is in need of pressing the reset buttong its them. I am truly sickened by how pathetic and decrepit this organization is given that they have to rely upon the Pakistani media and conspiracy theorists to do their PR work (sorry, I don't mean you, I'm just ranting in general).

 

[Stumper]

Godhra has nothing to do here. THAT WAS INTERNAL MATTER OF INDIA. PERIOD.



tx

Dont rush in without reading the context of the above post. Its clearly meant to highlight not only the double standards with which people are judging indians here but also stop people from playing the blame game.

 

[lowe1941]

A look at recent high-profile attacks blamed on Pakistan-based militants:

• March 3, 2009: Gunmen attack the Sri Lankan national cricket team in the eastern city of Lahore, wounding several players and killing six policemen and a driver.

• Nov. 26-28, 2008: Ten attackers kill 164 people in a three-day assault on luxury hotels, a Jewish center and other sites in Mumbai, India.

• Nov. 12, 2008: Gunmen shoot to death American aid worker Stephen Vance and his driver in the northwestern city of Peshawar.

• Sept. 20, 2008: A suicide truck bombing devastates Islamabad's Marriott Hotel, killing 54 people, including three Americans and the Czech ambassador.

• Aug. 21, 2008: Suicide bombers kill 67 people outside Pakistan's main weapons complex in the town of Wah.

• March 11, 2008: Suicide bombs rip through a police headquarters and a house in Lahore, killing at least 24 people.

• Dec. 27, 2007: Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and 20 other people are killed in a gun and suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi.

• Oct. 18, 2007: Suicide bombing aimed at Bhutto kills some 150 people in Karachi during celebrations welcoming her home from exile.

When many Muslims were celebrating the sucide attacks and bombings against Isreal Civlians years ago,, I told the you reap what you sow,, that the chickens allways come home to roost,,, that if you could justfie killing innocent civlians if they were jews the day would come when you could justife killing innocents for any reason,,,just remember PAYBACKS ARE HELL AND WE DID IT TO OUR SELVES....and I can promise you no one did this to us but us.. and we should be shamed trying to blame it on any one else including Indian....lot of people here have the brain of a pea, balls the size of marbles and a spine made out of swiss cheese.....being stupid, cowardly and supporting religious fanatics is not going to be a good survival skill in the 21st century.

 

[RajsParadise]

Once again my due condolences for the events which took place in Lahore today and greatest sympathies for the Valiant Pakistan Elite Police Personnel who lost their lives in this dastardly act by few hooligans...

... I just went through on the comments of Pakistan's High Commissioner To U.S.A, U.K, Pakistan's Defense Minister, Pakistan's Shipping Minister, Cricketers across the world and Finally the joint statement made by Mr.Obama and U.K Prime Minister Gordon Brown...

... its only the Pakistan's Shipping Minister who points out that the perpetrators may have been from India and when the same question was put by the Indian Media who were able to get all the Pakistan Higher Officials on their Channels, he said contrary to Pakistan's Shipping Minister Statement.

... Firstly Pakistan defence minister said that its an incorrect statement that RAW was behind the incident pointed specifically to RAW...

... I heard Pakistan's High Commissioner to U.S.A saying that its a fight against the terrorism within Pakistan and he said specifically quoting that he will wait till the events unfold in investigation.

... Pakistan's High Commissioner to UK mentioned about two possibilities about the growing political rivalry between Zardari's and Shariffs might be a cause or the second was about possible Al-q* role...

... During a joint press conference held in White House by both Brown and Obama, Obama expressed condolences to Sri Lankan team and said that he was waiting for further reports to pour in and said that he is going to announce a series of plans of America till NATO Summit where it will be taken on a higher scale regarding the possible American Directions to escalated and worsened situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan...

... now is the situation which calls for the astute reasoning and resolute approach towards the growing turmoil which Pakistan is facing today and I do understand the anguish and the reason of outrageous views expressed by the fellow members on the forum coz as I said earlier I might have done the same aftermath on 26/11...

... But I believe that the resilience of Pakistanis with an experience of going through dire circumstances for nearly half a century will help you all to get your country back on its feet the way you people want to see it...

... and if evidence not speculative but concrete make RAW the perpetrator under DUE LAW of international community let necessary action might be taken but I believe the need of the hour being resilient and able to make progress which will bring the world back to Pakistan...

... I will best of luck


RAJ

 

[Kharian_Beast]

^ please follow the rules of the forum before posting. Introduction first, half baked theories later.

 

[Energon]

it was 2008 when noone toured.

Prior to this it was a booming economy making many $$.

Now, as a consequence of this, that booming money spinner is no more for a long time. The Pakistani cricket economy was starting to come back with the Sri Lanka and Bangladesh tours. But they're all off now. This definitely benefits one country in particular

Look East, or West at some consulates.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The PCB has had financial problems since the early 2000s. There was a brief reprieve in 2003-04 and then again in 2005 on account of bilateral series' with India, who has always been the highest source of income for Pakistani cricket. This is the closest PCB has come to a "booming economy making many $$" in the last 10 years. Since 2006 it has been a drastic decline. Matches with SL haven't really garnered much and the Bangladesh tournaments have actually accrued financial losses. Pakistan's most profitable cricket endeavor right now is the ICL franchise.

India will not make any money from the demise of an already limited Pakistani cricketing structure considering:
1. It will not host any neutral venue matches; those will most probably be held either in the UAE or maybe even the UK.
2. There isn't any money in hosting Bangladesh; and SL already has their spots on the calendar.
3. Pakistani players aren't participants in the IPL.

 

[Stumper]

My "half baked theory" is no different than any other posted on this forum.

Correct. But then 2 wrongs dont make a right.

None the less ...You are definitely allowed to make theories if you think it will help enlighten others in any way.

 

[afriend]

A look at recent high-profile attacks blamed on Pakistan-based militants:

• March 3, 2009: Gunmen attack the Sri Lankan national cricket team in the eastern city of Lahore, wounding several players and killing six policemen and a driver.

• Nov. 26-28, 2008: Ten attackers kill 164 people in a three-day assault on luxury hotels, a Jewish center and other sites in Mumbai, India.

• Nov. 12, 2008: Gunmen shoot to death American aid worker Stephen Vance and his driver in the northwestern city of Peshawar.

• Sept. 20, 2008: A suicide truck bombing devastates Islamabad's Marriott Hotel, killing 54 people, including three Americans and the Czech ambassador.

• Aug. 21, 2008: Suicide bombers kill 67 people outside Pakistan's main weapons complex in the town of Wah.

• March 11, 2008: Suicide bombs rip through a police headquarters and a house in Lahore, killing at least 24 people.

• Dec. 27, 2007: Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and 20 other people are killed in a gun and suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi.

• Oct. 18, 2007: Suicide bombing aimed at Bhutto kills some 150 people in Karachi during celebrations welcoming her home from exile.

When many Muslims were celebrating the sucide attacks and bombings against Isreal Civlians years ago,, I told the you reap what you sow,, that the chickens allways come home to roost,,, that if you could justfie killing innocent civlians if they were jews the day would come when you could justife killing innocents for any reason,,,just remember PAYBACKS ARE HELL AND WE DID IT TO OUR SELVES....and I can promise you no one did this to us but us.. and we should be shamed trying to blame it on any one else including Indian....lot of people here have the brain of a pea, balls the size of marbles and a spine made out of swiss cheese.....being stupid, cowardly and supporting religious fanatics is not going to be a good survival skill in the 21st century.

I support you to the T man.. The day people start justifying the killings of innocent people. Thats doomsday for any one, It means morality have taken backseat. And they dont respect the system/People or the country..!!!! Lets unite against these religious fanatics so that the cluture of guns and bombs are erased from the world..!!! Support a muslim.. but not a muslim with guns and Bombs.. Support a hindu.. but not a hindu with Sickles and axes..!!!! And we have to get a clear distinction of these and act against themm!!!!!

 

[salman nedian]

Terrorists are not only Muslims or LET or Jaish-e-Muhammad. Followers of other religions can also be terrorists aren’t Tamil tigers terrorists?

Any one must not take it as a universal truth that any attack anywhere will be carried out only from Pakistan or Bangladesh. India has been providing support to different organizations in its neighboring countries in East Pakistan and Srilanka so one should not rule out the possibility of involvement of RAW. I have observed that Indians live in a fantasy world that no Indian can be involved in any terrorist activities and only ISI and Pakistan are terrorists.

Lets take an example of Palestine where Palestinians don’t have any proper government authority and Intelligence network so different small militant groups do their job but on the other hand Israel too carry out terrorist activities but ‘officially’ using its government agencies so no one points figure at it.