India's Rafale Deal

[third eye]

reminds me of Chinese water torture. poor French, hehe
the three demands are incompatible to each other I mean asking for price reduction and then in the same breath demanding more features? lol
demanding 50% assembly in India and then demanding French to own the risk as well? double lol.
I said poor French before but in a way they price their products so excessively that I am kind of enjoying the Indian treatment they are getting.

This is how large orders are negotiated.

Its us who are giving them business. The Indian automobile sector is an interesting example of this. Competition helps brings prices down but not the features . Quality and ownership of flaws remains with the seller. Volumes give the profit.

The french can make a profit but not a rip off.

the demands are not incompatible at all.

 

[princefaisal]

Let me remind few famous steps & claims involved in Rafale deal.

1: We just selected Rafale as winner of mother of all deals.
2: We will induct one squadron of Rafale from France. Remaining 100+ Rafales will be prepared by India under Make in India project.
3: India demanded more specifications along with TOT, as a result deal cost ballooned to several times of its initial cost!
4: You will see we will Induct Rafales, France cannot lose billion dollar friend like us.
5: India offered Tejas to France as a compensation in price tag...... France rejected the offer in first glance...!
6: Rafale is best. If can beat Raptor. We are demanding more advance systems that's why it is facing high cost issue and delays. But once 126 Rafales come in IAF we will rule the skies of Asia!!
7: Numbers of Rafales reduced to 36.
8: We will buy 36 as initial need. We will induct more Sukhois and later buy more Rafales if necessary.
9: Several squadrons of Mig21,Mig 27 retired. IAF cannibalize!
10: France has no chance in front of Modi.! We will get very first Rafales from France in fly away condition.
11: Egypt began to receive Rafales. After Egypt, UAE requirement came forward..... India still in waiting list.
12: Now Rafale deal in limited numbers is also in trouble as it do not full fill the number requirements and facing further delays....

That means further delay of J-10 or J-11.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Reality Check other then SU MKI what else you have,also we almost have 75+ f16Block 52 or MLUs ? and looking one more 4+ gen fighter? plus Thunder Block III.

if you continue this way after 2018 you might face the toughest time of your history, with quality and quantity...

Hillarious.
Only 75 4th Gen ? Forget 220 MKI that India has now. ( I did omit SMTs , 29Ks , V5s and Darin IIIs with a purpose )

Kaha Ho Bhaiya ? Forget IAF, India Navy alone has over 40 Mig 29Ks !! and Plans 3 AirCraft Carriers ( None in PN ) with Plans to go for More 4.5 gen Air Crafts than ENTIRE PAF !!
Jaago Grakah Jaago.

 

[NKVD]

With this attitude no one will sell you even a rafale landing tyre

Most of contanders of MMRCA are happy theu dont have to face embaresment as DASSAULT and frence

Rationally What Attitude you aspect From a Buyer We are Paying them hard Cash.Its Not Charity Going on here we will make Sure we Take out Worth of Every Penny.French thinks indians are cash cow we Paid 40 million a piece Just to upgrade 51 odd Mirage-2000 Its good MoD is cautious this time To take any step ahead .

PS:Russians Always there to Back up.We throw sum cash they Dance on Out on Tune.Recently We are Negotiation with them to Buy Pak Fa off-self

 

[Tipu7]

when did that happen?

Almost 6 months ago....... when India was struggling with 126 order. They wanted to keep the cost of deal below 10 billion$ and wanted France to induct Tejas as cost compromiser..... I am searching for related articles on their forum, but looks like they have removed all such crazy articles......

Only 75 4th Gen ? Forget 220 MKI that India has now. ( I did omit SMTs , 29Ks , V5s and Darin IIIs with a purpose )

76 Falcons + 54 Thunders.
Issue is, gap between PAF and IAF is reducing fast. PAF is successfully replacing its old fleets of A5,F7,Mirages, while IAF is still waiting for Tejas,Rafales. And Mig21,Mig27 which were supposed to retire by 2013 are retired now after 2 more years and replacement still not available......
Point is our programs are going fine and smooth. We inducted jf17 blk 1 successfully and now blk 2 is in production. By 2017 we will Complete it's induction and began work on blk 3 production. By 2020 we will enter in 4thG completely. More over not to mention induction of new falcon if necessary or a new heavy plate form.......
In IAF on the other hand, Rafael is not coming in two years. After two years it will replace two squadrons only. Tejas Mk1 will be operational by 2017, Mk2 is as far as 2022.
So point is
How will you replace hundreds of old Mig 21,Mig 27 & Jaguars???
Su30MKI cannot replace light air crafts. ......

 

[CHI RULES]

India is highest Growth Rate in whole south Asia Even with those Problems india is One Of worlds Top ten destination For FDI.India have when of the Top ten Military Budgets in World.Have Fourth Largest Standing Armed Forces . A member of BRICS & G20

Child, Rationality Has a Virtue over Emotions.When A country which Has GDP Equals to the Single State of India Mocks over its Progress. Then Its Credential Always Comes to questions


Ahhh Its Hurting where I wanted

First thread is abt Indian Rafael deal, secondly this forum is not for comparison between India and Pak economy.
India considers Pak as threat and competes in every field. Even a lay man knows that a country having vast geographical boundaries has different requirements than a country of small stature. Further u have one emerging International Power China at ur door step.

Further India has aggressive intentions so in order to fulfill them requires more sophisticated and agile fighter/bombers as compared to Pak in defensive posture.
Volume was yes Indian economy is big but it also a fact that u have millions of people living below poverty line.
In case of air force the only effective fighter bomber is Mirage 2000. Meanwhile SU30 or Mig 29s have their own technical issues which are quite obvious.

So it is your experts headache to get Rafaels not ours. We have options available to counter Rafaels which considering defensive/reactive posture may be implemented once Rafaels are handed over to IA.

Hillarious.
Only 75 4th Gen ? Forget 220 MKI that India has now. ( I did omit SMTs , 29Ks , V5s and Darin IIIs with a purpose )

Kaha Ho Bhaiya ? Forget IAF, India Navy alone has over 40 Mig 29Ks !! and Plans 3 AirCraft Carriers ( None in PN ) with Plans to go for More 4.5 gen Air Crafts than ENTIRE PAF !!
Jaago Grakah Jaago.

U can't bring ur entire mighty air force against Pak in war. Common sense prevails. JAGO BHAI JAGO

 

[NKVD]

First thread is abt Indian Rafael deal, secondly this forum is not for comparison between India and Pak economy.
India considers Pak as threat and competes in every field. Even a lay man knows that a country having vast geographical boundaries has different requirements than a country of small stature. Further u have one emerging International Power China at ur door step.

Further India has aggressive intentions so in order to fulfill them requires more sophisticated and agile fighter/bombers as compared to Pak in defensive posture.
Volume was yes Indian economy is big but it also a fact that u have millions of people living below poverty line.
In case of air force the only effective fighter bomber is Mirage 2000. Meanwhile SU30 or Mig 29s have their own technical issues which are quite obvious.

So it is your experts headache to get Rafaels not ours. We have options available to counter Rafaels which considering defensive/reactive posture may be implemented once Rafaels are handed over to IA.

Guy Wanted He Start his Line Off-topic Comments

Volume was yes Indian economy is big but it also a fact that u have millions of people living below poverty line.

And Pakistan is Free From that Just compare the Global Economic Standards India & Pakistan From Per capita to HDI
India is way Ahead of Smaller Pakistan which Much Easy to control

Meanwhile SU30 or Mig 29s have their own technical issues which are quite obvious.

Please Specify These Technical Issues in Details

 

[trident2010]

I posted it somewhere else a couple of days ago before it was announced. The Indians really have to realize that Indian style negotiations will push this entire thing out by years. Asking for a price reduction, then more weapons integration options (which costs more money of course) and then asking the French to follow the offsetting law by putting majority of this assembly in India.....all three won't work together in India's favor. There is some give and take that needs to happen.

Yes, you are right. We can't have everything in our terms. Hope they will sort this out. I don't care which fighter plane IAF gets but we need it ASAP.

 

[I M Sikander]

Ek Kahavt hai.. Begani Shadi me ( India-France Deal ) Abudulla ( Pakistan ) Diwana !!

 

[RazorMC]

The French are willing to abide by the 30% clause as long as their profits are unaffected.

I believe India misunderstood their need for orders as a willingness to transfer key technology, which hasn't happened.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

these frenchies r paying the price for abandoning Pakistan for indians.


what! teja for rafael!!!!! when did that happen?

I wish good luck to Indians. French did what any businessman will do for the sake of more money. hopefully the Indians will make every dollar worth. there was no special love between French and Pakistan

 

[Blue Marlin]

why is this taking so long in the space of announcement to now, Dassault has already got two customers and already delivered 3 of the jet already. too long india. the only problem is that Dassault refuses to invest 50% of the order value in india. if so many companies are going to india why is Dassault not want to go there?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

reminds me of Chinese water torture. poor French, hehe
the three demands are incompatible to each other I mean asking for price reduction and then in the same breath demanding more features? lol
demanding 50% assembly in India and then demanding French to own the risk as well? double lol.
I said poor French before but in a way they price their products so excessively that I am kind of enjoying the Indian treatment they are getting.

If the GOI does not get completely anal with this, there is this other body called CAG that will BURY them. Last time around their scathing reports brought down an entire government and allowed Modi to strom in. There is no government that will ever want to risk that kind of a fate again.

That's how these things need to be done. If you are not like this, then there is something wrong with your system. Is it not true that sometimes the cost of building roads/ metros etc. in Pak is sometimes svereal times more than in India.

 

[Chanakyaa]

U can't bring ur entire mighty air force against Pak in war. Common sense prevails. JAGO BHAI JAGO

INDIA CAN and WILL bring Its ENTIRE NAVAL ARM ( Beta ji just check my post, how i EXCLUDED MKI and focused solely on IN. Air Wings ) , If needed.

How many carriers does USN keep at Home ?

 

[Kao Boy]

India could have bagged the deal for Rafael including terms on integration space for Astra, without having to buy missiles from France at extra cost .. Even at subsidised price... Increasing demand from UAE .. Successful deal with Egypt has mitigated the chance of France accepting the deal... US Iran deal which has finalised majority of high risk points is also a reason... I think...