India's porverty reduced from 269 million to 172 million : World Bank

[noksss]

I can understand what Pakistanis are feeling now

 

[HariPrasad]

Dont you get it.....these number considering $1.90

As per world bank's old poverty standard in PPP, Indian poverty was bellow 100 million in 2014. So this 172 million must be according to 1.90 USD PPP standard.

How? By changing the poverty line?

No not at all like china who reduced poverty line to 0.24 USD from 1.25 usd in ppp to reduce the poverty. China is a Bluff master.

What's all this continuous rant about Vedic maths?? Don't know why they are using this as a slang, because every Indian is proud of it. And remember, even the so called Arabic numerical system is nothing but Vedic Maths.



Dude, the figure of 1.9$ is in PPP. Now does it make sense?? Don't go by the figure of Rs.130, its misleading. At 130rs a day you are far far away from being poor in India

Hi guys do not get confused by straight awat converting 1.90 USD to Rs 130 in INR. It is in PPP. so actual figure shall be less.

 

[CrazyRaju]

Just curious, how many percent of Indian labor force are working on these "informal sectors" where you do not get benefits but cash?

1. If you are not an employee of a govt company
2. If you are not an employee of a private company that is doing legitimate business
3. If you are not self employed

90% of all the remaining folks can fall under this unorganized sector that deals with cash or barter with no benefits or disclosure

• Of-course India also has tons and tons of folks that are Monks/priests etc they also deal with their lives outside the currency system.

India is like a huge ant colony it all looks chaotic, somehow it works and no one can understand

 

[Genesis]

For the same ground reality of Indian in 2012:

Indian Gov Planning Commission in 2013 reports: Rs 26.8 for rural, Rs 32.9 for urban: Poverty rate is 21.9%
Word Bank in 2015 reports: $1.9 PPP, Poverty Rate is 18.66%

So $1.9 PPP is actually less valuable than Rs 26.8, Rs 32.9 respectively. It is way off from what many Indian friends here thought $1.9=Rs123. The whole bohaha about the reduction on poverty rate is just a number games.

poverty rates never made sense to me. China has pulled anywhere from 200 million to 800 million according to different sources out of poverty.

What I can see is this.

Average wage, and GDP per capita, these are not accurate either, but it's at least close.

Also, anyone that claims 120 rupees is good to be middle class needs to see what a middle class is.

Urban would be even messy.

• as most of these people will be living in unofficial residences.
• most of these folks work on cash (domestic helps, labor, short term labor carrying goods from shops to home or to the shop etc.) that will be hard to trace and have a handle on.
• This unorganized world will all end up in a statistical curve fitting somewhere

yes that's not as big a deal as you think it is. Chinese jobs also have unofficial income, like bonuses, for housing, utilities, transport, etc. For a lot of jobs those are expected. It doesn't really help much, not elevating them to middle class at least.

 

[Dungeness]

As per world bank's old poverty standard in PPP, Indian poverty was bellow 100 million in 2014. So this 172 million must be according to 1.90 USD PPP standard.

No not at all like china who reduced poverty line to 0.24 USD from 1.25 usd in ppp to reduce the poverty. China is a Bluff master.




Hi guys do not get confused by straight awat converting 1.90 USD to Rs 130 in INR. It is in PPP. so actual figure shall be less.

Now I know why you have 11 negative ratings, zero positive rating. Thanks for input anyway.

 

[HariPrasad]

No, you are not getting it. When the world band official global poverty line was $1.25, India gov was using Rs 32 for urban, Rs 26 for rural as official Indian poverty line, as it considered Rs 32 for urban was equivalent to $1.25. It has been like this since 2012. What I want to know is what are the numbers in terms Rs used this time.

Dude,

These 1.25 USD and 1.90 USD are in terms of PPP. So can not be straight away converted by multiplying exchange rate. They have to be multiplyed by PPP conversion rate. It shall be significantly lower than the prevailing exchange rate.

 

[Genesis]

No not at all like china who reduced poverty line to 0.24 USD from 1.25 usd in ppp to reduce the poverty. China is a Bluff master.

We faked this data, so you should probably ignore it. From ILO.

Indian wage: 115 Dollars (2012)
Chinese wage: 676 Dollars (2013)

Regions and countries

International Labour Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[HariPrasad]

Now I know why you have 11 negative ratings, zero positive rating. Thanks for input anyway.

You are a new addition to the long list of idiots on PDF. A typical moron who want to live in the world of delusion and World bank DATA do not matter for him And the one who see negative rating content in post quoting world bank DATA.

 

[Dungeness]

1. If you are not an employee of a govt company
2. If you are not an employee of a private company that is doing legitimate business
3. If you are not self employed

90% of all the remaining folks can fall under this unorganized sector that deals with cash or barter with no benefits or disclosure

• Of-course India also has tons and tons of folks that are Monks/priests etc they also deal with their lives outside the currency system.

India is like a huge ant colony it all looks chaotic, somehow it works and no one can understand

So can I say that the majority of the labor force are in "informal sectors", whose income can be under reported, therefore, the poverty rate could be over reported?

 

[HariPrasad]

Now I know why you have 11 negative ratings, zero positive rating. Thanks for input anyway.

@Irfan Baloch , @WebMaster

Pl look at above post and tell me whether my post No 94 is a one deserve negative rating. Pl control this troll. This kind of idiot is enough to derail some serious discussion.

 

[rubyjackass]

I am not disputing the progress India has made in lifting poor people out of poverty, which indeed is a great achievement worth cheering for. I am questioning following points:

1. OP and many Indian members mixed up PPP with nominal dollar, and believe India poverty line is Rs 123, which give a false impression that poor people actually doing pretty well, which is far from the truth. I am surprised that you guys don't know poverty line was based on PPP dollar in Indian, and don't have any idea how poor people live their lives.

You are right. The mixup happened because the OP wrote Rs 123 beside the dollar amount. He should have written PPP dollar. Actually it comes to around Rs 33.

2. OP's reason to call it poverty reduction, and many of Indian cheer for, is merely two different ways presenting the SAME reality for the same year. Cheering for an achievement on paper that did not really happen?

There is actual poverty reduction if you consider the timeframe from 2011 to 2015, though you can argue the whole of it is because of accounting. Though it definitely wont be as dramatic as 9%. WB fellows are helpless as even India did an accounting change between these years. Assuming they factored that in, they should have at least put forward comparative figures of the old method.

3. Is the poverty line of Rs 27 for rural, Rs 33 for urban really a poverty line or merely a survive line? How many of you have tried live on Rs 33 in a city for a day?

It is the standard poverty line in India. Most intellectuals and academics are unhappy with the line. But that is the way it is today. Living on Rs 33 in India is not so hard(no doubt it is hard but outsiders lack perspective) as outsiders think. All states ration rice at at most Rs 5 per kg for example for poor people.

4. It comes to my mind, just how many of Indian members here are from the poorest segment of the Indian society?

99% chance that it is nobody. The poorest segment don't send their kids to schools which feed free entrance higher education centres. But there are thousands of students who are coming from families that earn twice the poverty line number(which is still not a rich or even middle class family). That is why I say we should devise a second line which will cover education and track people who are not able to afford it.

5. I totally agree with you on the bold part. In China, the poverty line is set as such (currently $1 nominal), 58% of it should be used for food (500 g cereal, 500 g vegetable, 50 meat, per day), the remaining for clothing and other spending.

$1 nominal is 7 yuan. Are you sure? How much is cereal per kg there? And how much is college fees? I am interested to know.
Btw $1.9 PPP is also around 7 yuan. So your poverty line is close to World Bank's.

That is the world bank number. I want to know what number in terms of Rs India used as official poverty line.

World bank number and India's poverty line are close.

 

[Dungeness]

@Irfan Baloch , @WebMaster

Pl look at above post and tell me whether my post No 94 is a one deserve negative rating. Pl control this troll. This kind of idiot is enough to derail some serious discussion.

Come on, we are having a legit discussion here. Just be quiet. Thanks.

 

[HariPrasad]

Come on, we are having a legit discussion here. Just be quiet. Thanks.

How can we have legit discussion when you do not understand the difference between 1.90 USD in nominal term and its valuation in local currency in PPP. You bluff hear on forum without any iota of knowledge in economy. Better you go to on one thread earmarked for comedy. Your posts shall be enjoyed by people over there.

 

[CrazyRaju]

So can I say that the majority of the labor force are in "informal sectors", whose income can be under reported, therefore, the poverty rate could be over reported?

That is true.

I am not saying we are awesome.. there is tons and tons work to be done to get some semblance to the system.

Things are so scary unorganized it may take ages to clean this up. Lots of people spend their energies corrupting and bypassing the system rather than working with it or bettering it. Rules and regulations are beautifully spelled out but very hard to follow or implement or held someone accountable for it.

 

[Dungeness]

How can we have legit discussion when you do not understand the difference between 1.90 USD in nominal term and its valuation in local currency in PPP. You bluff hear on forum without any iota of knowledge in economy. Better you go to on one thread earmarked for comedy. Your posts shall be enjoyed by people over there.

Not with you. Now can you sit quiet and read, please?

You are right. The mixup happened because the OP wrote Rs 123 beside the dollar amount. He should have written PPP dollar. Actually it comes to around Rs 33.

There is actual poverty reduction if you consider the timeframe from 2011 to 2015, though you can argue the whole of it is because of accounting. Though it definitely wont be as dramatic as 9%. WB fellows are helpless as even India did an accounting change between these years. Assuming they factored that in, they should have at least put forward comparitive figures of the old method.

It is the standard poverty line in India. Most intellectuals and academics are unhappy with the line. But that is the way it is today. Living on Rs 33 in India is not so hard as outsiders think. All states ration rice at at most Rs 5 per kg for example for poor people.

99% change that it is nobody. The poorest segment don't send their kids to schools which feed free entrance higher education centres. But there are thousands of students who are coming from families that earn twice the poverty line number(which is still not a rich or even middle class family). That is why I say we should devise a second line which will cover education and track people who are not able to afford it.

$1 nominal is 7 yuan. Are you sure? How much is cereal per kg there? And how much is college fees? I am interested to know.
Btw $1.9 PPP is also around 7 yuan. So your poverty line is close to World Bank's.


World bank number and India's poverty line are close.

First paragraph well taken.

Second, I have not doubt there is poverty reduction between 2011-2015. My point has been the two sets number for 2012.

Third, That is good to know! Call me silly, but a line in conclusion in a 1997 article in LA times stricken me a great deal "would you rather be a poor in India or in China" to my heart. How China Beat India in Race for Success------A 1997 Article That Predicted Today

4rd paragraph, that is a problem. It explains why so many Indian friends mixed up PPP with nominal, because they do not know the ground reality of poor people this thread was about. They simply out of touch of the the other Indian they don't know.

5th, actually, the current poverty line in China is 6.3 RMB. I am not living in China now, but I know the rice is about 2.3 RMB per 500 g, vegetable can be as low as 1 RMB per 500g, pork is about 1.2 RMB per 50 g. By the way, I was in China last week. Chinese scholar think $1 nominal is about $1.8 PPP in China.