India’s PM to attend temple groundbreaking at disputed site

[The_Showstopper]

I have no sympathy for the Europeans too in this case. Just that how Hagia Sofia was used by Muslims of this very forum to say that it is "legal" and many comments on how destruction of sites were "holy". You take up the fight with them. Not me.

But you are drawing comparisons with Babri Masjid and you or the other Hindus raising this issue are no Europeans...

As for being land, no is asking you or anyone to go out. Dharmic civilisation is the history of this land. It got it's root from the people in this land and it's culture and practises has to be given importance (my point of view and not lawfully). At the same time, unlike Muslims of India I will not ask for redundant or idiotic religious practises in the name of freedom of religion. That needs to go. Won't defend such idiotiness.

You have a problem with muslims following "redundant or idiotic" religious practises because you believe them to be redundant. Same can by me or any other Indian muslim about Hindu religious practices which are way more idiotic than Islamic religious practices yet they are followed with aplomb. Why should your practices have more importance than others. Muslims aren't aliens, they've been part of this country since ages and infact they are native to this land like other Hindus. So what do you have to say about beef ban, Pollution due to Diwali, Holi, Ganpati visarjan etc? Will you defend such idiotiness?

When various "namas" are proudly written by invading Muslim generals on how many infidels they killed, how many temples were looted and destroyed can give you an idea on how the Abrahamic hate against Indic civilisations was. I can proudly say that all religions are one and are different ways to God. Can you tell the same? That's the difference btw the civilisation which came from this land and outside.

Then you must read Ashoka Vadana, Divyadana etc to see how well the Hindu rulers exterminated Buddhism and its places of worship.

"I can proudly say that all religions are one and are different ways to God." - Thats your belief.

I would say -
To You Your Religion and To Me Mine

Your so-called civilization treats its fellow humans worse than animals, force their women into temple prostitution, burn the women, force lower caste women to bare their bosom etc. So stop giving sermons...

Ancient Tamil Sangam has various written accounts of Jain and Buddhist literature. Kanchi was a place of Buddhist study. The Bhakthi movement (if you had read some history) started from the south in 6-7th century and spread all the way north. Saints and Poets converted kings to Shaivites and Vainavites (Mahendravarman Pallava was a Jain who converted to Saivite) and won theological debates. Adi Shankaracharya and Ramanujan won so much theological debates while at the same.time critical of then prevailing society values which we call today as evil. The Buddhist temples or monasteries were converted as people and kings converted. There were few excesses but none to the scale of Muslim invaders. All of them are clearly documented. There were excesses against Buddhist in Bengal etc. But I can only talk on history on regions where I have clear knowledge of.

Excesses against Buddhists are recorded quite well...

Just refer this thread...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/budd...in-the-land-of-its-birth.509885/#post-9721952

Its quite astonishing you are looking to go behind Buddhist when Nalanda and Taxila were destroyed by you know who's. They put the death knell ok Buddhism in Indian region.

Buddhism was done and dusted by Hindu rulers by the time Islamic invasions arrived at the gates of Indian sub-continent.

I am not asking you to convert. But if I become a Muslim tomo I am not going to claim Babar as my ancestors or going to justify his or any other invaders kings beastly acts. India is the civilisational refugee of dharmic religion and wherever the law and history clearly states an ancient temple was destroyed to make way for an mosque we should reclaim it. Even better Muslims themselves should help.handover it. Like they did in Somnath.

But you will gladly justify when Buddhists are exterminated by Hindus and their places of worship converted to Temples...


What Happened to 84,000 Stupas/Viharas Built By Samrat Ashoka

 

[The_Showstopper]

Benefits of Majoritarian , yes Kashmiri Pundits enjoyed the benefits when they were called to leave their daughters and wives behind

That comes straight out of some B-grade bollywood movie LOL..

Come with something more original...

Read the below article to know more about Tolerant Hindus


The killing fields of Jammu: How Muslims become a minority

 

[Crixus]

I agree with you Pandits paid the price of what they did in Jammu ..same goes with Babri ..you demolished the temple and constructed a mosque as now the mosque got demolished a temple is constructed again

That comes straight out of some B-grade bollywood movie LOL..

Come with something more original...

Read the below article to know more about Tolerant Hindus


The killing fields of Jammu: How Muslims become a minority

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

But you are drawing comparisons with Babri Masjid and you or the other Hindus raising this issue are no Europeans...


You have a problem with muslims following "redundant or idiotic" religious practises because you believe them to be redundant. Same can by me or any other Indian muslim about Hindu religious practices which are way more idiotic than Islamic religious practices yet they are followed with aplomb. Why should your practices have more importance than others. Muslims aren't aliens, they've been part of this country since ages and infact they are native to this land like other Hindus. So what do you have to say about beef ban, Pollution due to Diwali, Holi, Ganpati visarjan etc? Will you defend such idiotiness?


Then you must read Ashoka Vadana, Divyadana etc to see how well the Hindu rulers exterminated Buddhism and its places of worship.

"I can proudly say that all religions are one and are different ways to God." - Thats your belief.

I would say -
To You Your Religion and To Me Mine

Your so-called civilization treats its fellow humans worse than animals, force their women into temple prostitution, burn the women, force lower caste women to bare their bosom etc. So stop giving sermons...


Excesses against Buddhists are recorded quite well...

Just refer this thread...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/budd...in-the-land-of-its-birth.509885/#post-9721952


Buddhism was done and dusted by Hindu rulers by the time Islamic invasions arrived at the gates of Indian sub-continent.


But you will gladly justify when Buddhists are exterminated by Hindus and their places of worship converted to Temples...


What Happened to 84,000 Stupas/Viharas Built By Samrat Ashoka

You are quite good in twisting my sentences. Stupid practises needs to go starting with Hinduism. Hindus are reforming. And here we have people like you defending 1400 year old laws incompatible with modern ages.

Muslims are natives, but the culture doesn't.belong to this land. It came from Arabia. Dharmic religion doesn't tell non believers to kill, to kill who convert, to kill who are homo sexual etc. Infact it doesn't even ask to burn widows which was a medieval invention. But I don't see anyone defending them. They are bad practises and needs to go as incompatible ones from Arabia. Every religion that came.to this land has blended in with local traditions. Even Sufis did. But here we have Mullahs bad-mouthing dargas and how Sufi way is not the Islamic way. That's another debate which I do not want to have.

As for to you your religion and as mine- It's all right as long as your religion doesn't affect the rights of people of other religions and their sensitivities. Eating beef is not an requirements of Islamic law or culture. But cow killing is frowned upon Indian culture since atleast 2000 years. One can change religion and not their culture, but you folks seem to hate anything your ancestors followed for a reason.
Another reason I said all God's are one or none is one reason of saying how Islamic culture is incompatible with Indian civilisation culture. You are simply proving my point by saying how you are different. The only difference btw you and me is damn religion and yet the culture of this land is supposed to be the same for you and me. And here you are defending your religion and not your (our) culture damn proves my point.

As I said I can talk about excesses against Buddhists only from the region I come from. Am not an expert in other regions while what I am aware of is there was widesclale discrimination in Pala Empire in 10th century. In the south there was less discrimination and I gave you an entire example of Bhakthi moment. I am not even denying it. But it was not the scale of barbarity invaders showed on local people.

You are doing the same thing here. Nowhere did you even condemn Muslim excesses against Natives that means even your forefathers. You are here defending foreign invaders cos you identify with them cos of your religion. You do not have love for the Buddhist or Jains here. Just your plain hate against Hindus. Your culture has made you intolerant of anything others and you are here lecturing me on how I should be tolerant. Its quite fun.

My so called civilisation had its own corruption. Every religion went through it. Be in Christianity or Judaism. Hindu religion has had many reform movements starting from Adi Shankaracharya, Ramanujan, Basavappa to modern day Vivekananda, Subramanya Bharathi to Baba Ambedkar. I even consider Periyar to be one reformist. My culture is under Reformation. Your so called.superior Arabic culture hasn't even started the reform.part. We have backwards like you defending foreign invaders, spiting own culture (as if the culture had only bad things to be followed) and backward religion laws incompatible with modern age in the name of freedom of religion and will run riots in India if someone take a movie on Islam in the United States. You folks can be easily triggered using religion and there is a reason why political parties are using as vote banks.

You can take mine as constrictive criticism or disregard and be in the same.old pitfalls. Muslims who were advanced than Dalits in 50,60s are now more backwards cos they took forward education as means of advancement and Muslims took religion and went backwards in socio economic standards. And sit and blame conspiracy theories (I have a close Muslim friend who believe in Zionist conspiracy in almost anything) for why the Muslim communities aren't advancing in most of the planet

 

[Vikram1]

Can share the names of them?

I never said that.

 

[Vanamali]

nope Muslim can’t worship idol or give offerings glad tidings to idol .
It takes you out of religion of one god and make you kaafir .

stone to build Wall not to ask for help . What a idiot set of people

What is there in kabba.... Not a stone???

 

[Max]

As for being land, no is asking you or anyone to go out. Dharmic civilisation is the history of this land. It got it's root from the people in this land and it's culture and practises has to be given importance (my point of view and not lawfully). At the same time, unlike Muslims of India I will not ask for redundant or idiotic religious practises in the name of freedom of religion. That needs to go. Won't defend such idiotiness.

1. We have discussed it here multiple time and agreed that Hinduism is not a religion, its basically pagan union which welcome all pagan with all kind of idols and beliefs.

2. Whereas Islam is a complete religion. it have definition of Islam and Muslims ans set of rules+ way of life. How dare you compare these two when one is even not a religion to begin with?

3. All ancient civilization were pagans, you start from Indus basin, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, even the nomadic Turks (Terngrism), all moved on, only subhumans in ganga jumna region are obsessed with ancient paganism.. look all around your neighborhood.

Believe me if it were not for hatred and Obsession of Islam, your kind would be atheist like Chinese and there would be nothing like Hinduism.

 

[terry5]

What is there in kabba.... Not a stone???

Nope . No stone there to bow to , nor ask from nor give offering to .

Only Allah alone get praise .

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

1. We have discussed it here multiple time and agreed that Hinduism is not a religion, its basically pagan union which welcome all pagan with all kind of idols and beliefs.

2. Whereas Islam is a complete religion. it have definition of Islam and Muslims ans set of rules+ way of life. How dare you compare these two when one is even not a religion to begin with?

3. All ancient civilization were pagans, you start from Indus basin, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, even the nomadic Turks (Terngrism), all moved on, only subhumans in ganga jumna region are obsessed with ancient paganism.. look all around your neighborhood.

Believe me if it were not for hatred and Obsession of Islam, your kind would be atheist like Chinese and there would be nothing like Hinduism.

Lol. I will be a part of an culture that originated in "our" land. Hinduism is a way of life. That idiotic rigidity is a reason why I was explaining it's not compatible with the land. Just cos it's an "organised religion" doesn't make it more or less superior. That's a lame argument. Your religion doesn't even give freedom to its followers to follow their own path to find the truth. Buddha found enlightenment and truth cos he followed his own path and deviated from then established ways. Vivekananda did. And that's why we are syncretic, pluralistic and acceptable of new ideas. India is nothing without her spiritualism. I do not blame you though with having no similar literature in your own language to even comprehend what I am talking about.

Let's end this discussion now.

 

[IMARV]

Christians are not pagans. Hindus are.

How does that matter?

On another note, Christians despite being abrahmic religion could not save its one of the prominent church.

 

[IMARV]

How so? How is the conversion of a mosque to a museum to a mosque equivalent to:

1. Forcibly and illegally installing idols in a mosque.
2. Destroying that same mosque.
3. Using dubious legal judgement to sanctify such practice.

No it is not, where do you find my argument as a justification to demolish Babri and construct a mandir?

Contrary to that, it was just meant to expose your hypocrisy.

Invading a land and then doing a sham of buying a property is equally violent thought as destroying a mosque. Both were intended to subdue another religion and impose their own. Otherwise in both case, grand temple (in India) and grand Mosque (in Turkey) could be built in some other place, meanwhile keeping a place of historical and religious importance intact.

 

[kris]

India’s PM to attend temple groundbreaking at disputed site

EMILY SCHMALL

today

NEW DELHI (AP) — Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will attend a groundbreaking ceremony next month for a Hindu temple on a disputed site in northern India where a 16th century mosque was torn down by Hindu hard-liners in 1992, according to the trust overseeing the temple construction.

The ceremony is set for Aug. 5, a date organizers said was astrologically auspicious for Hindus but that also marks a year since the Indian Parliament revoked the semi-autonomous status of its only Muslim-majority state, Jammu and Kashmir.

The symbolism was impossible to miss for both supporters and opponents of Modi’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, or BJP, whose manifesto had for decades included pledges to strip restive Kashmir’s autonomy and to build a temple to the Hindu god Ram where the Mughal-era mosque once stood, a site in the city of Ayodhya in Uttar Pradesh state that devotees believe to be Ram’s birthplace.

Because the coronavirus is still rampaging across India, which has reported the world’s third-highest caseload, the ceremony will be broadcast live on state television and the number of participants and spectators will be limited, according to Vishwa Hindu Parishad, or the World Hindu Organization, a Hindu nationalist group allied with the BJP.

The temple will serve as “an enduring and immortal beaming center of social harmony, national unity and integration and awakening of the feeling of Hindutva,” or Hindu way of life, the organization’s spokesperson Vinod Bansal said in a news release Saturday.

A century-long dispute over the site was resolved last year following the BJP’s landslide election victory. In November, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the temple trust, saying that Muslim petitions would be given five acres at an alternative site.

Hindus hard-liners have long contended that Mughal Muslim invaders built a mosque on top of a preexisting temple in the ancient city of Ayodya.

A December 1992 riot following the destruction of the mosque sparked communal violence in which about 2,000 people were killed, mostly Muslims.

Meanwhile, the trial in the demolition court case continues to be heard in a special court.

An architect from Ahmedabad, Gujarat, Modi’s home state, has proposed a towering sandstone structure 161 feet (49 meters) high with five domes.

Yogi Adityanath, Uttar Pradesh’s chief minister and a Hindu monk, requested that Ayodhya hold a special cleaning and purification ceremony and for all of the city’s temples to light oil lamps ahead of Modi’s visit, the Press Trust of India news agency reported.

Adityanath said the occasion marked the end of a “500-year struggle,” PTI reported.

https://apnews.com/0586adad7d0d9c2b30672b9b9c46c5ae#:~:text=NEW DELHI (AP) — Indian,trust overseeing the temple construction.

The temple land isn't disputed anymore

 

[Max]

Lol. I will be a part of an culture that originated in "our" land. Hinduism is a way of life. That idiotic rigidity is a reason why I was explaining it's not compatible with the land.

Hinduism cant be way of life when it didn't have an agreed definition of Hinduism and Hindu to begin with, Thats what i stated earlier, we had many debates here on this issue. stop comparing your paganism with any religion. its anything but religion.

As for being indigenous, well let me tell you, They Pagans of Arabia used to have hundreds of idols inside Holy Kabba, when Prophet Muhammad (saww) rejected their taboo paganism and corrupt way of life they become enemies by saying you (saww) disregard way of our forefather (not ready to reform), you Indians are also the same kind. not ready to reform like Greeks did, like Romans did, Like Pakistani, Egyptians, Persians, Arabs, Indonesia, Central Asians.. all countries around you did.. are they any less cultured then your toilet less shithole?

Your religion doesn't even give freedom to its followers to follow their own path to find the truth

Why it would be called religion when it give no path to its followers?

Buddha found enlightenment and truth cos he followed his own path and deviated from then established ways. Vivekananda did. And that's why we are syncretic, pluralistic and acceptable of new ideas. India is nothing without her spiritualism. I do not blame you though with having no similar literature in your own language to even comprehend what I am talking about.

Let's end this discussion now.

But they didn't give a definition to your paganism?

 

[xeuss]

No it is not, where do you find my argument as a justification to demolish Babri and construct a mandir?

Contrary to that, it was just meant to expose your hypocrisy.

Invading a land and then doing a sham of buying a property is equally violent thought as destroying a mosque. Both were intended to subdue another religion and impose their own. Otherwise in both case, grand temple (in India) and grand Mosque (in Turkey) could be built in some other place, meanwhile keeping a place of historical and religious importance intact.

Once again, using dubious comparisons only serve to justify the crimes that were committed on Dec 6, 1992.

You care not to understand the differences in time, law, politics, religion and conquest. You simply seek the false equivalence because it can negate your sense of shame over the crime that was committed on Dec 6, 1992.

 

[xeuss]

The temple land isn't disputed anymore

It is a crime scene. A place where a fanatical Hindu mob razed a mosque.