India's patience on terror not unlimited: Robert Gates

[Peshwa]

Nowhere have I said that Pakistan holds a military superiority over India, in fact India does. But only slightly so, not enough to do what it yearns to do to Pakistan.

Pakistan DEFINITELY holds the capability to do a "If I'm gonna go down, I'd take ya with me" on to India. Which is something we're prepared for, thats why when your Premiere in 2002 promised his nation "Decisive action" and amassed 1 million troops to threaten us, we were there eyeball to eyeball ready to give as good as we may get.

We have ALREADY challenged your military threat and have answered the call to fight. It's not a question of IF Pakistan would fight, 2002, was ample evidence we were gung ho and ready for it and we are not at all interested in keeping things punitive. You will fight on our terms.

I have come to one conclusion.....Based purely on responses I see on this forum....

Pakistanis on this forum are satisfied with "Little victories"...

Appeasement based on flights of fantasy such as below have completely marred aspirations for the bigger picture

Who won the air battle in '65
Who won the air war in '71....
Who defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan......
India didnt attack in '99, 2002, 2008...They sure were scared of Pakistan....."We stood eye to eye"

I mean except for an amusing read.....There really wasnt much else to be taken from here.....If it helps some people sleep at night....why not....Not like we have to face an enemy the size of India...

Only problem is, if I were in that place....I would be worried....But hey...Its better for an enemy to undestimate an opponents strength right...?

Besides......
One doesnt really need to kill a person suffering from cancer.....he is already a gonner....know what I mean?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I have come to one conclusion.....Based purely on responses I see on this forum....

Pakistanis on this forum are satisfied with "Little victories"...

Appeasement based on flights of fantasy such as below have completely marred aspirations for the bigger picture

Who won the air battle in '65
Who won the air war in '71....
Who defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan......
India didnt attack in '99, 2002, 2008...They sure were scared of Pakistan....."We stood eye to eye"

I mean except for an amusing read.....There really wasnt much else to be taken from here.....If it helps some people sleep at night....why not....Not like we have to face an enemy the size of India...

Only problem is, if I were in that place....I would be worried....But hey...Its better for an enemy to undestimate an opponents strength right...?

Besides......
One doesnt really need to kill a person suffering from cancer.....he is already a gonner....know what I mean?

So if you concluded than why are you staying here now? You have the essay written with the conclusion now go and rest.
I think you will leave PDF as you have given your final words about the forum.
bubye

 

[Peshwa]

So if you concluded than why are you staying here now? You have the essay written with the conclusion now go and rest.
I think you will leave PDF as you have given your final words about the forum.
bubye

Huh???

Read my post carefully little brother....

Besides I love it here.....There is no spice in life if we dont disagree....

and I never knew I enjoyed writing.....I have to thank PDF for it.....how better than to keep posting

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Huh???

Read my post carefully little brother....

Besides I love it here.....There is no spice in life if we dont disagree....

and I never knew I enjoyed writing.....I have to thank PDF for it.....how better than to keep posting

Yeah I read now you should read your post again!


Bashing each other is not a spice..
Is it?

 

[faithfulguy]

I have come to one conclusion.....Based purely on responses I see on this forum....

Pakistanis on this forum are satisfied with "Little victories"...

I believe that is how a lot of people feel about Indians in this forum.

 

[Peshwa]

Yeah I read now you should read your post again!


Bashing each other is not a spice..
Is it?

You're right....maybe I got a bit emotional there....
I apologize if I offended you....it wasnt directed at you but the person being refernced.....

But then again my friend....calling our (India's) restraint as an act of cowardice isnt going to earn any respect from Indians either....

I hope u see the point....

Give some to get some thats all I say.....

 

[Peshwa]

I believe that is how a lot of people feel about Indians in this forum.

I trust you on that one....

We have our own samples too....

 

[ROSH]

Guys- India patience is not unlimited. Infact it lost it some years back. Afterall the Govt of India does have responsibility towards their citizens.
India's response : well you guys are intelligent....

 

[Hulk]

Waging a war is not the best options always. Also we always look at pros and cons while making decision, I am prod that we did not go for war in 2002 2008. You do not want to go for war just to prove to Pakistan that we can attack you. I suggest in case of future attack which indicates Pakistan is going for proxy war, we should support TTP as much as we can, response should be such which gives maximum pain without much impact on us. I will see if Pakistan will dare to attack us then,

 

[deckingraj]

Waging a war is not the best options always. Also we always look at pros and cons while making decision, I am prod that we did not go for war in 2002 2008. You do not want to go for war just to prove to Pakistan that we can attack you. I suggest in case of future attack which indicates Pakistan is going for proxy war, we should support TTP as much as we can, response should be such which gives maximum pain without much impact on us. I will see if Pakistan will dare to attack us then,

If it is an emotional outburst than i am fine...If it is not than i am afraid i strongly disagree... TTP is our enemy there is no point in helping an enemy to avenge another one... Besides what else will TTP achieve apart from killing innocent civilians??? All the good will and moral high grounds that india has will be lost with one stroke of a pen...Don't you think so??? India is well by not waging a war or helping a terrorist organization to keep Pakistan checked....Just look at the geo-politics today..that work is already in progress and in worst case scenario(after all how much you can take in) the so called cold start doctorine is in place....Though i wish we never have to use it but if need be we will....

 

[Hulk]

That's not emotional but more practical. What are the options we have?
If we go for war it will hurt our economy, if we do not go for war Pakistani's get encouraged that India cannot do anything. We want to make sure we raise the cost of attack on India. So one option is do the reverse, now I do not care if it is TTP or people in Baluchistan. If Pakistani's continue to think that we cannot do anything if they continue their support to terrorism in India then this is the only best option. When in Rome do like Roman's do.

I learnt from this forum that RAW is quite capable.

 

[ROSH]

I think our policy is working fine. Keep the moral high ground.......BUT Know that covert ops should always be responded by covert ops. The success is visible as for the firts time in the last 20 years, Pakistan is realizing that it is so easy to destroy than to create. They are realizing that any ediot can blast himself at any place of his choice and this does not make them heroes or Indian forces cowards. While we defeated them in our Pujnab, only history will tell what will happen to Pakistan. We are in Afghanistan for this purpose.

While I do not want to see even a single pakistani citizen harmed or hurt, I too want the same for Indian citizens. Proxy war is low cost war. We should focus on our economic growth and in building our nation. China is our competition and not Pakistan. In another 10 years, all the issues with Pakistan will disappear...

 

[deckingraj]

That's not emotional but more practical. What are the options we have?
If we go for war it will hurt our economy, if we do not go for war Pakistani's get encouraged that India cannot do anything. We want to make sure we raise the cost of attack on India. So one option is do the reverse, now I do not care if it is TTP or people in Baluchistan. If Pakistani's continue to think that we cannot do anything if they continue their support to terrorism in India then this is the only best option. When in Rome do like Roman's do.

I learnt from this forum that RAW is quite capable.

No doubt about your bolded part...Even though they have let us down on some occasion however they are very potent...

Now lets discuss about the option that you are asking for...Let me ask you a question...What is your objective of taking the war to Pakistan??? I believe it is to let them know that if they will support terrorism in India we will return them the same favor... and by doing this Pak will understand that they cannot continue spreading of terrorism in India without paying cost...I hope i got it right???

Now let me share my apprehentions with it...

a) Most importantly it will mean that we are writing death sentence of innocents in Pakistan..... I am strictly agaisnt this barbarism...

b) Since it is a defence forum so lets leave emotions(Point 1) aside and see it from strategic angle..

- First of all even if we indulge in spreading terrorism in Pakistan this will no way make India safe.. All we will achieve is kill some of their people for killings of our own people.
- India has earned lot of respect and fame accross the world by showing restraint during Kargil, Parliament Attack, Mumbai Attack etc. Just remember what Gates said a few days back. This restraint has helped us immensely and improvised our PR. By product is that deals like NSG waiver for nuclear deal was far easy that it would have been otherwise.....
- Brand india is improving day by day and people consider us as a responsible nation and a super power in making.
- After 9/11 world has changed and supporting terror in any form is a Big NO-NO...We will loose a lot than gain if we choose to adopt terror tactics and consider them as strategic weapons. Just look at what is happening in Pakistan...
- List is endless. Though my above points will give you an inclination of what i am upto.


Now the bigger question is what the heck shall we do??? We just can't sit and take on attacks after attack and do nothing about it... The answer is Diplomacy... I know we did not get the desired results in the past but mumbai changed the game...We are on offensive and have been able to corner Pakistan to some extent...Now have it given us what we hoped for?? May be not but surely it has given us a lot as compared to past results....

What if diplomacy Fails

Then IMO only way is implement the cold start doctorine... We have spent about $50 billion in last few years...After all such toys need to be used at the time of emergency...Not a full-fledged war but a limited war(here world opinion will help keep the conflict intact and certainly will back India)....There is no other OPTION.....

 

[Iggy]

Waging a war is not the best options always. Also we always look at pros and cons while making decision, I am prod that we did not go for war in 2002 2008. You do not want to go for war just to prove to Pakistan that we can attack you. I suggest in case of future attack which indicates Pakistan is going for proxy war, we should support TTP as much as we can, response should be such which gives maximum pain without much impact on us. I will see if Pakistan will dare to attack us then,

Mate f we support TTP we are commiting the same mistake Pakistan has done and look at their current situation...They supported all those groups in the name of freedom fighters and now those organizations no longer listen to them and some of them even wage war up on them..TTP is a cancer..Remember their next target is India..Today Pakistan has some sane leadership..what if TTP got in to power? [Highly unlikely]..Some retards in the power of Pakistan is the last thing India wanted..

 

[faithfulguy]

I think if a terrorist group attack India, India should seek to wipe out that group. India should learn a thing or two from Israel. Send in some commandos to wipe out the terrorist groups and camps. Assasinate the terrorist leader. It must do something.

Its just sad that India media talk so much about India might and its military ability but can't even deal with the terrorists properly.