India's Light stealth aircraft.

[MULUBJA]

Hi guys. Manohar parrikar talking to IIT students said that India can make a new plane in 5 years. One Guy in Indian defense claimed that he is referring to his design which he gave to Defense ministry. He provided a lots of design details which is very very interesting to discuss here. I will post that with courtesy of Indian defense forum.

 

[MULUBJA]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ys-Parrikar/articleshow/51462327.cms?from=mdr


ROORKEE: India may be able to develop its own fighter aircraft with the help of indigenous and foreign technology in the next four to five years, Defence minister Manohar Parrikar said on Friday, while stressing on curbing the dependency in import in defence sector. "In four or five years we could develop our own fighter planes with the help of a mixture of indigenous and foreign technologies," he said.

In respeonse to above, one guy told that it is his design and gave a very very interesting details.

Plane shall have 13.75 m length and 4 weapon bays. in fuselage and one each bellow wing which will carry 2 missile in each weapon bay on fuselage and one each in wing weapon bay.

• The main weapons bay is 4.25m long, 57.5cms deep and 1.1m wide. The main bay is capable of carrying 2xK77M or 2xAstra or 2xHarpoons or 2xKH35UE or 2x1000lb bombs or 8xSPICE250 and every weapon designed for Pak-Fa.
• Large internal weapons bay of LSA can be adopted to carry multiple payloads for specialist missions like F-18SH Growler for exclusive EW/Recce role and can be converted to carry directed energy weapons of the 6th Gen fighters in future.
• Each side bay can carry one 1xK-77M/Astra and 1xK-74M2/ASRAAM. The Lower side bays are 3.8m long while the upper side bay is 3.2m long and their combined width is 70cms and depth is 45cms.
• The outstanding wing-body blending will add a large part of overall lift besides drastically reducing the Interference drag. LSA has the best wing-body blending compared to any other aircraft of similar nature anywhere in the world and it is nearly as good as a flying wing in mid fuselage section.

LSA is designed to have same agility as that of F-22 but will have 3D TVC. ASRAAMs have the least RCS of any AAM in the world. In SEAD/DEAD role, the wingtip missiles will not be carried.

EJ-230 Engine will be used in LSA.

Total internal payload is going to be 1.75 tons including side bay missiles. India won't need rafale as this aircraft is designed to counter any such aircraft.

LSA fuel fraction is 0.37 which is same as F-35 and compared to 0.33 of Rafale. LSA will out range Rafale in any role/configuration.

 

[rockstarIN]

So total 2 main internal bay & 2 side bays - total of 4 weapon stations?

 

[MULUBJA]

So total 2 main internal bay & 2 side bays - total of 4 weapon stations?

Not weapon stations weapon bay in which 6 missiles can be kept. 2 each fuselage bay and in side bay + 2 more missiles on wing tip=8 + 8 weapon points on wings make it 16 in total. This is more than big planes like rafale.

A total of 7.5 tons of payload on six internal, eight external including wingtips and two CFT stations. LSA will have Litenning NG pod converted to chin EOTS as has been confirmed to me by Israelis.

 

[Indika]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ys-Parrikar/articleshow/51462327.cms?from=mdr


ROORKEE: India may be able to develop its own fighter aircraft with the help of indigenous and foreign technology in the next four to five years, Defence minister Manohar Parrikar said on Friday, while stressing on curbing the dependency in import in defence sector. "In four or five years we could develop our own fighter planes with the help of a mixture of indigenous and foreign technologies," he said.

In respeonse to above, one guy told that it is his design and gave a very very interesting details.

Plane shall have 13.75 m length and 4 weapon bays. in fuselage and one each bellow wing which will carry 2 missile in each weapon bay on fuselage and one each in wing weapon bay.

• The main weapons bay is 4.25m long, 57.5cms deep and 1.1m wide. The main bay is capable of carrying 2xK77M or 2xAstra or 2xHarpoons or 2xKH35UE or 2x1000lb bombs or 8xSPICE250 and every weapon designed for Pak-Fa.
• Large internal weapons bay of LSA can be adopted to carry multiple payloads for specialist missions like F-18SH Growler for exclusive EW/Recce role and can be converted to carry directed energy weapons of the 6th Gen fighters in future.
• Each side bay can carry one 1xK-77M/Astra and 1xK-74M2/ASRAAM. The Lower side bays are 3.8m long while the upper side bay is 3.2m long and their combined width is 70cms and depth is 45cms.
• The outstanding wing-body blending will add a large part of overall lift besides drastically reducing the Interference drag. LSA has the best wing-body blending compared to any other aircraft of similar nature anywhere in the world and it is nearly as good as a flying wing in mid fuselage section.

LSA is designed to have same agility as that of F-22 but will have 3D TVC. ASRAAMs have the least RCS of any AAM in the world. In SEAD/DEAD role, the wingtip missiles will not be carried.

EJ-230 Engine will be used in LSA.

Total internal payload is going to be 1.75 tons including side bay missiles. India won't need rafale as this aircraft is designed to counter any such aircraft.

LSA fuel fraction is 0.37 which is same as F-35 and compared to 0.33 of Rafale. LSA will out range Rafale in any role/configuration.

Most ppl work first and speak later. We do it the opposite way albeit doing no work.

 

[holysaturn]

I went through some of the aspects in the forum, I believe its a great idea, to develop a platform based on proven platforms and technologies. I could find a similarity of this concept to the LWF concept which led to the F-16. The timelines and budget look ambitious but a small committed team can probably make it a success, hope it gets the go ahead and funding.
The writer of the below blog is also associated with the concept , u can read some of the ideas in the below concept
https://defenseissues.net/2014/08/02/air-superiority-fighter-proposal-6/
Its based on the HF-24 airframe design with the below changes as quoted in the forum

"LSA will be known as a marvel of Indian frugal engineering skills like Mangalyaan mission. No one will ever accept that a supersonic stealth fighter can be made with a budget of just USD 300m which is less than the development budget of world’s cheapest car called Tata Nano. It is a completely re-designed HF-24 aircraft with single engine. HF-24 all metallic airframe weighed 2.85tons with a length of 15.87m giving it an OWE of 6.25 tons with four 30MM Aden Cannons. LSA design is 13.75m long with one GSH-30mm gun and mid wing Delta-Tail planform with lots of composite construction and avionics far lighter compared to HF-24. I have calculated an empty weight of 5.75 tons for LSA including Internal bay launchers, bay door opening systems. The OWE of this aircraft is expected to be 6 tons. The weapon load is 5.75 tons with internal fuel volume of 3.5 tons giving it MTOW of 15.25 tons. The 3D TVC of this aircraft will be based on the principles of Sea Harrier as this aircraft will have stable design. A switch on HOTAS will engage TVC and merge the movement of elevators and rudders to TVC giving the pilot ability to use TVC on demand during combat and switch between stable to unstable flight regimes on demand. 3D thrust vectoring nozzles will also act as additional control surface and its twin rudders as V-tail will augment the control authority of Tail plane based on a combination of speed + Alpha + Pilot demand. This design uses off-the-shelf technologies presently available within India developed for LCA program and does not need any R & D for any of its systems. The FOC will be achieved for those weapon systems which are operational on Mig-21 and LCA MK1. Any additional weapons integration will be done post FOC. The internal bays will be certified for full weapon configuration for SEAD/DEAD ops as part of FOC. LSA will have a seamless entry into service as it will use the infrastructure and support equipment created for Mig-21 for operating from any air base of IAF. LSA will have a total of 16 stations for carrying a variety of loads comprising six internal, six under wing, two wingtip and two CFT stations. LSA uses air foil of HF-24 which was the first ever supersonic, supercritical air foil of the world. The HF-24 airfoil round LE will be converted to sharp LE for better subsonic /supersonic performance with addition of LE maneuver Flaps and double slotted TE Flaps. Even the fuselage has been shaped as per this airfoil. The modified pure Delta planform with LERX has the Reynolds number of Mig-21 wing. I have enumerated below the changes I had made to the HF-24 design to make it LSA and attached the superimposed images of LSA & HF-24 to highlight them.

• The nose has been shaped to become a lifting surface and also provide very predictable vortex shedding with a very small boundary layer to help reduce the size of air intakes as the gap between the boundary layer diverter and the intake will be 8 cms only which is lesser than any other design with similar intake arrangements.
  
• The fore body shape coupled with LERX will also provide a wing-body AC which will be of special use during super cruise. The LERX will provide a very strong vortex to pull the airflow towards the fuselage by increasing the span efficiency & overall lift. They will also increase resistance to spin and provide very effective high AOA stability.
  
  
• LSA nose is shaped as a hexagonal and has a maximum width of 1.4m compared to 1.2m width of HF-24. The width at intakes is 2.25m. Length of the nose has been reduced and will have same drag polar as that of HF-24.
  
  
• The nose provides space for IRST, OLS-K EOTS and 0.45 sqm area for AESA radar. The gun will be accessed from main weapons bay for loading and unloading including servicing.
  
  
• The cockpit is very spacious and offers same comfort level and equipment fit as that of Jaguar aircraft and provides 360* visibility.
  
  
• HF-24 had 4x30mm guns with 130 rounds each internally. This space has been converted to avionics bay which will be lowered down like the HF-24 rocket pack for maintenance purposes and to access various LRUs. This will also ensure that we can upgrade LSA avionics anytime without the need for changing the internal set up. The 50x68mm Rocket pack will now house the 150 rds of ammo for one GSh-30mm cannon to be fitted in the nose.
  
  
• LSA is a mid-wing design compared to low-wing HF-24. Raising the wing on the fuselage and lowering the engine to have a thrust line below the wing line will provide a nose pitch up moment due to thrust which will assist the Tail plane in providing very high control authority and outstanding pitch rate ability far superior to any RSS design presently flying in India. This combination will also help reduce Trim Drag.
  
  
• The circular intakes have been converted to wing root like intakes and allow for airflow of 84kgs/second with 8cms left for boundary layer bleed off on each side.
  
  
• LSA wing has a sweepback of 57* and area of 31.7sqm with 8.5m span and 2.95m long LERX & Aspect ratio of 2.28 which is best figure for an interceptor aircraft. HF-24 quarter chord sweepback was 45* while LSA is 49*. The wings will have LE slats & TE double slotted 67% exposed span flaps borrowed from Jaguar. The Ailerons design is borrowed from Mig-21. Primary FCS will be controlled by EHSAs and will have Power-by-Wire architecture which is same as FBW in Direct Law. The secondary flight controls & weapons bay doors will be actuated by Hydraulics & rotary electrical actuators.
  
  
• LSA provides for 50% additional internal fuel volume compared to HF-24.The additional fuel capacity is a result of single elliptical air duct and 10cm thicker fuselage compared to HF-24 which had 1.45m thick fuselage.
  
  
• LSA will have Gripen like fully internally housed telescopic IFR probe to maintain low RCS.
  
  
• The main weapons bay is 4.3m long, 62.5cms deep and 1.1m wide. HF-24 had a 35cms deep fuel tank below the fuselage which has been converted into main weapons bay by increasing the fuselage thickness by 10cms and reshaping the air duct to elliptical shape like that of F-16. The main bay is capable of carrying 2xK77M or 2xAstra or 2xHarpoons or 2xKH35UE or 2x1000lb bombs or 8xSPICE250 and every weapon designed for Pak-Fa.
  
  
• Large internal weapons bay of LSA can be adopted to carry multiple payloads for specialist missions like F-18SH Growler for exclusive EW/Recce role and can be converted to carry directed energy weapons of the 6th Gen fighters in future.
  
  
• Each side bay can carry one 1xK-77M/Astra and 1xK-74M2/ASRAAM. The Lower side bays are 3.9m long while the upper side bay is 3.25m long and their combined width is 70cms and depth is 55cms.
  
  
• The outstanding wing-body blending will add a large part of overall lift besides drastically reducing the Interference drag. LSA has the best wing-body blending compared to any other aircraft of similar nature anywhere in the world and it is nearly as good as a flying wing in mid fuselage section.
  
  
• The rear part of the fuselage has been tapered inwards at an angle of 7.5* to give it a Boat tail shape to reduce drag at all stages of flight. Tail plane has sweepback of 57* with span-5.25m, tail arm-4.3m, Vbar-0.34.
  
  
• The use of twin rudders positioned out of LERX wake, will provide much superior directional control with extremely high yaw stability besides acting as a V-tail to provide increased nose pitch up authority at extremely low speeds and extremely high AOA. This helps to raise the combined Vbar to 0.44 for tail plane and V-tail. The twin V-tail shaped rudders will also lower the overall stance of the aircraft which will reduce its visual & radar cross section to increase its stealth capability.
  
  
• The wheel base is 5m, wheel track-2.6m, Topple angle-30*, Nose wheel weight-15%, main wheel weight-85%. The nose gear is same as Mig-21 and the main gear is borrowed from LCA. The main gear doors will also be the airbrakes.
  
  
• The tail clearance angle is 20* which allows this aircraft to fly 15 Alpha approach to exploit the full potential of LERX. LSA will have approach speeds of less than 115 kits and can be easily adopted for Carrier operation.
  
  
• The engine of choice is EJ230 with 72KN dry thrust and 108KN wet thrust giving it a TWR of 0.79 at loaded weight on dry thrust and a TWR of 1.32 in Combat weight configuration on wet thrust. LSA will have a sea level stall speed of 88 kits at 1.6Cl in combat flap settings & load giving it Cat-1 ITR & STR at sea level conditions of 37*/sec & 30*/sec for 9G & 6G loads respectively with 700 feet radius of turn. These figures are same as that of F-22.
  
  
• The equipment fit will have Central Mission Computers which will integrate all weapons, sensors, communication equipment, navigation equipment and on board systems to provide a composite fused picture to pilot on touch screen based glass Cockpit with cockpit speech recognition and voice command system. LSA will have ELTA designed GaN based AESA. A chin mounted EOTS system based on OLS-K pod components configured for internal fitment providing limited capabilities like F-35.
  
  
• LSA will have a fault detection, display & diagnosis system like A-320 to shorten turnaround inspection time. I have spoken to Israeli Aircraft Industry and they are willing to provide full support to create tailor made solutions for LSA.
  
• Mig wing LSA is the least risk design and can be created in two years.
  
  
• Shown below is the RCS diagram of LSA created using ANSYS software at 500MHz frequency with all metallic skin. The frontal RCS is -36dbsm and side RCS is -22dbsm which is same as that of F-22 and superior to the RCS of F-35. The X-band RCS with composite skin & RAM coating is likely to be even better than what has been calculated. The internal weapon load and overall Stealth of LSA is superior to even under development AMCA.
• On the LWF for IAF thread, many members questioned me about LSA and if its really possible. I have now posted how I created it. Please read in detail the above post and correlate it with the HF-24 cutaway. You will have no doubts that LSA is very much a very capable design.
  I forgot to mention one very important thing about LSA. I have designed a wingtip sensor pod which acts more like the Hoerners tips. They increase the effective span of the wings by over 0.5m and completely destroy the wingtip vortices. This has resulted in improving the span efficiency and Oswald span efficiency factor. Mig-21 had best L/D of 9 while LSA with very raw CFD analysis has already crossed the figure of 14. Another very important aspect is that span loading at combat is below 1000 and wingloading is below 265.
  The internal bays can carry 6 missiles, while another 16 can be carried on external pylons. The inner pylons can carry 1xK-77M/Meteor+2xK-74M/ASRAAM and mid pylons can carry 1xMICA/IDeby-ER+2xASRAAM/K-74M. The outer pylon can carry MICA/IDerby-ER and the wingtips can carry 1xASRAAM. This amounts to a total load out of 22 missiles. Two more than F-15 in "Arsenal Aircraft" role. AND with all these missiles, LSA will still be able to carry 2x800ltrs CFTS.

"

"These are some of the calculations for LSA CG and longitudinal stability. The first column is for CAS role and the weapon load is 8xSpice250+4x500Lbs LGB+8xFAB120+6xSpear+2xK-77M/Meteor+4xASRAAM+2x800ltrs CFT.
The second column s for SEAD/DEAD with 8xSPICE250+2xK-77m/Meteor+4xASRAAM.
The third is for AD role with 2xK-77M/Meteor+6xASRAAM. It can also be changed to 4 of each type.
The pylons have been numbered as per Naval designation-odd is port and even is starboard from inboard to outboard."

The main air duct is elliptical in shape which turns circular at the engine face. This allows me to have a mainbay with a depth of 62.5cms. I will not show the front view as that gives out more than what I wish to share. The arrangement shows 4xK-77M and 2xASRAAM.

 

[halupridol]

Mungerilal ke haseen sapne

 

[Indian_gorkha]

He claims that he had talked to Israeli aerospace industry and claims that they have accepted to make one that will tailored to the needs.

WTF? What about the engine?

 

[MULUBJA]

-A total of 7.5 tons of payload on six internal, eight external including wingtips and two CFT stations. LSA will have Litenning NG pod converted to chin EOTS as has been confirmed to me by Israelis.

-In stealth mode, CFTs will provide additional 1.5 hr flight time to LSA. Its normal cruise speed will be around 0.93M so it can do a return trip to Beijing from NE India bases. LSA will not need air strips for operation. it is designed to operate from roads and grass strips. CFTs will not effect its performance.

-Large LERX. No canards.

About intake

-a single engine aircraft with side intakes will have a Y duct only. My duct is very close to that of F-22 as it rises upwards and than drops down at engine face but it is elliptical in shape. That gives me the depth for main bay in the fuselage.

Twin engine option.

-I also have the option of converting LSA into a twin engine aircraft using F-125 or under development HAL engine with similar capabilities.
.

About LSA

I know it is hard to believe but LSA is not a new design. It is an adaptation of an existing aircraft and uses off-the-shelf technology. That compresses the time period for its development and reduces the cost. My aim is not to create a very high tech ac like F-22 but aim is to create an ac which can arrive stealthily at a point in space from where it can use its electro-optics and WVRAAMs to prosecute a target.
The battles between a 4th gen and 4th gen fighters will be at BVR while the battles between 4th gen and 5th gen will be at the boundary of BVR/WVR as the 5th gen fighter would like to deny an advance warning of an incoming shot to its target. The battle between 5th gen and 5th gen fighters will be WVR only.
I know that my battle scenario is different from USAF who see BVR as the future. but I maintain my position on future air combat. Infact I foresee return to guns only fight once DIRCM is installed on fighters and lasers evolve to be primary weapons.

Most ppl work first and speak later. We do it the opposite way albeit doing no work.

No everybody does it from design stage? Were F 22 or F 35 or Eurofighters and rafale declared after they completed?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I will be very happy if they make it in TEN years

 

[MULUBJA]

He claims that he had talked to Israeli aerospace industry and claims that they have accepted to make one that will tailored to the needs.

WTF? What about the engine?

EJ 230 or RD 33 or upgraded version of 35 KN dry and 56 KN wet thrust HAL engine in twine engine configuration

 

[ssethii]

What a shame PDF has no aircraft project of it's own despite it's larger internet footprint.

 

[MULUBJA]

-On the type of architech.

You got it right bang on. Infact the Power-by-wire FCS architecture is same as FBW and for a stable ac it is FBW in direct law. LSA will use fuel transfer and fuel burn off to maintain a stability margin of just 7% and once we develop full FBW for it, with just an introduction of FBW computer in the FCS, LSA will become FBW. I will then shift the CG back by adding fuel in the rudders which will be dry till the FBW is introduced.

What a shame PDF has no aircraft project of it's own despite it's larger internet footprint.

I appreciate this. There may be many member here associated with airforce. If somebody can come up with such project, we may discuss and educate ourself.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Hi guys. Manohar parrikar talking to IIT students said that India can make a new plane in 5 years. One Guy in Indian defense claimed that he is referring to his design which he gave to Defense ministry. He provided a lots of design details which is very very interesting to discuss here. I will post that with courtesy of Indian defense forum.

This is nearly Nine Months old news

 

[ssethii]

I appreciate this. There may be many member here associated with airforce. If somebody can come up with such project, we may discuss and educate ourself.

Maybe some day but looks like we haven't found our water car engineer for this field yet.