India's growth depends on progress of Muslims and other minorities

[KRAIT]

@Black Widow

"State is not responsible for Upliftment of individual, rather individual is responsible for upliftment of state."

Slight correction,

State is responsible for Upliftment of individual AND individual is responsible for upliftment of state.

Its feedback mechanism that is the reason for growth of both State and the individual.

 

[anilindia]

Indian Muslim Azim Premj net worth is USD 17 B which is about 8 % of total Pakistan GDP. The fact is that most of Indian muslims are self employed and their income is not accounted and hence not shown. They have more per capital income as data shown.

 

[Dillinger]

Why are the likes of Umair debating Islamic law/theology on this forum and passing judgment as to who is a Muslim and who is not?

A) First and foremost: As to the Ahmedis:- OUR CONSTITUTION DEFINES THEM AS MUSLIMS, THE AHMEDIS IN INDIA ALSO DEFINE THEMSELVES AS MUSLIMS AND INDIAN MUSLIMS VIEW THE AHMEDIS AS MUSLIMS. So this is not up for debate. Whatever the Pakistani laws or Islamic laws might state- our constitution states otherwise and our constitution is the unassailable as well as supreme law of the land. It cannot be superceded by any religious tenets be they from the vedas, upanishads, ramayana, bible, quran, torah, whatever holy book the scientologists or the mormons have. The Indian Muslims have chosen to follow the Indian constitution first and any other grouping of tenets later- if that leads to some deluded people labeling them as "non-muslims" then that's no skin off an Indian muslim's nose.

B): Indeed Indian Muslims need to be uplifted as do many members of the scheduled castes/tribes. A large proportion of our population falls within these categories and even some of the most stringent and bigoted people in India like Subramanian Swamy (Regardless of his impeccable anti-corruption record) have agreed that affirmative action is required in India (something Mr. Swamy agreed to in a live interview with only one reservation on his part). The state or the constitution is not unfavorable or biased towards Muslims although certain individuals and parties unfortunately have been. But let this be clear once and for all, we are neither the fort of Hinduism nor of Islam nor of any other religion. Our development is slow but steady, in the past 10 years we have lifted over 200 million people out of poverty- my village now has roads, a well stocked dispensary within 2 km, a proper school and electricity- and I happen to come from one of the most underdeveloped parts of our country, Bihar. There are hundreds of millions of people awaiting upliftment and we are busy with it.

C): With regard to the socio-economic development of Muslims in India there are various factors which need to be understood:-

1) For at least 5 decades after our independence we were an enormously poor nation, struggling against many odds and inclement conditions. The muslims weren't the only one's left behind- rather development and prosperity were defined by regional frameworks and economic strata. Again let me use the example of my own village- with a population of about 800 we have about 200 muslims- 30 to 20 years back there were maybe 45-50 families which owned any appreciable amount of land on which economically feasible agricultural activities could be carried out. Only 5-6 individuals from that generation in my village ever went to college! Today the situation is vastly different, massive highways flank my village from three sides, a new bridge straddles the nehar and every single family has sent its kids to school.

2) With the relatively recent economic prowess that India has showcased many sections of society have been capable of tapping into the nation's progress and uplifting themselves but it has not occurred to a degree that satisfies us. With muslims in specific we face some curious challenges- the rural muslim population in northern/eastern India seems to have an aversion towards modern schooling while the muslims in southern India have followed the line of their regional brethren from other religions and opted for better education. Education itself is one of the primary markers of development. This trend will have to be revised downwards through more careful targeting of communities to bring them under the aegis of schemes such as the sarva-shiksha abhiyan.

3) The problem stated above is shared by many other communities which while not identifiable through religious groupings share the same economic conditions as a majority of our muslims- an aversion towards proper schooling and educational development. But they cannot shoulder all the blame, not even most of it- the true fault lies with the governments at the state level and the center. The most apt solution in my amateur opinion would be to take the recent direct cash transfer shceme- make it operational throughout India through efficient implementation of Adhar/UID and then tailor the scheme in accordance to the highly acclaimed Bolsa Familia program of Brazil- where these incentives are given upon satisfaction of various criteria such as mandatory attendance at school for all the children of a family and meeting the nutritional requirements of all the children in the family etc. In India the details of such a program will have to be tweaked to cater to some of the specific needs of specific groupings- a higher thrust on primary and higher education in the case of Muslims (detailed requirements for implementing such a program and attaining success can be discussed in another forum and my views are by no means final).

 

[anilindia]

Per capita income of Muslim in 2006 is Rs 3678 whereas that of hindus is Rs 4514/-.
As far as minority is concern Christians has highest per capita income of Rs 59201/- whereas ST has less income of Rs 3504/-. Seventy-eight per cent of Muslims have access to protected water, followed by Hindus (71%), Christians (65%) and STs (62%).

Most social problems are not due to religious or ethnic discrimination.

I dont have updated data as on now

 

[IndoUS]

Per capita income of Muslim in 2006 is Rs 3678 whereas that of hindus is Rs 4514/-.
As far as minority is concern Christians has highest per capita income of Rs 59201/- whereas ST has less income of Rs 3504/-. Seventy-eight per cent of Muslims have access to protected water, followed by Hindus (71%), Christians (65%) and STs (62%).

Most social problems are not due to religious or ethnic discrimination.

I dont have updated data as on now

As a Christian I would say one thing, Christians have invested a lot in their education through money from other countries (NGOs) I know the ELC and other denominations have their own schools which are usually cheap and have good teachers. This might be true for other religions also, the thing that is a problem is that these schools are religion based so they will have some classes are traditions/activities that is related to the religion, which is a bog no no for a lot of people.

 

[Black Widow]

As a Christian I would say one thing, Christians have invested a lot in their education through money from other countries (NGOs) I know the ELC and other denominations have their own schools which are usually cheap and have good teachers. This might be true for other religions also, the thing that is a problem is that these schools are religion based so they will have some classes are traditions/activities that is related to the religion, which is a bog no no for a lot of people.

I did my schooling in missionary school, The quality of education was as good as private school. I was never discriminated or persuaded to convert my religion.

I agree the progressive religions, Christians, Jews , Parsis spend lot of money on education (Modern education).. Education is key to 21st century.


The Good news is So called Lower caste Hindus are investing heavily on education. In just last 10 years, these brothers have focused on two areas, Eduaction and Family planning. From my personal experience I observed that My drive, Garderner , and other staffs have planned there family (Have 2 kids, some of them have 2 daughters, and they have done family planning operation).

Half of there salary goes to education of Kids, Some of there Kids are studying at DAV schools (Good private schools.).

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I understood ur post.

Islam is one , there can not be place for sects in it. Country class culture and creed are acceptable, but sect or castism is not (According to Islam).

Its your understanding that the Talibans are considering Shina non-Muslim. You see them as Taliban, I see them as Muslims. I don't see any difference between there Islam and your Islam (If there is only one Islam)

Thank u for yr understanding.

Dude i live in a Country where taliban exist so by even common knowledge one can differentiate their understanding of Islamic teachings which is mostly Jazbati as most of people in my country right now r uneducated n we all know that we can brainwash them easily by using Religion as soft target.
So they killing Shias n declaire them non muslim individually is obviously not important. What we need to do n r doing is to invest highly in infrastructure n education in those areas.So this Bemari gets cured.

Ahmedis are not banned in India. They are as Muslim as others, "Jamiyat e Ulma e Hind" is not Indian constitution, they are some one in huge country. Country don't give them importance.

Ahmedis not banned in india= obviously yes they arnt.
But thats because its not a Muslim country, it doesnt represent Muslims through its law.
But yr constitution makes clear that every person is allowed to follow, preach their faiths.

And in that very faith they come into cross roads with Islamic Basic Teachings.by not accepting the basic principals of Islam, so now designating them among Muslim is technically Wrong and on the other hand Muslims themselves dont consider them same in the same country.
We dont expect u to kill them, or become unjust here. All we want is to not designate them with Muslims n declare them as another minority like Jews, Sikhs etc.
The should be allowed to follow their faiths like they r allowed in Pak too n they dont have any other discrimination problems in general but they r only designated with non muslims in our Country. This same is accepted world wide in muslim world but the reason why they dont have a law to say that is because they dont exist in their countries they only exist in SA only.

In the end u say that ''"Jamiyat e Ulma e Hind" is not Indian constitution, they are some one in huge country. Country don't give them importance''.

My dear friend, we r talking about people who r just 21% of yr population n in that 21%'s maybe 1%,2% people.So we r not talking about Huge Country's huge population combined here. This is the matter of the Muslims only who r 21% in yr country not others so its not a matter n their agreement in this case.
It is solely about Islamic Beliefs of Muslims only.
And for yr info Jamiyat e Ulema e Hind is the biggest Gathering of Clerics of Highest regard of Muslims in India.
Molanna Abdul Kalam Azad, Molana Mehmood Madni(who is the member of yr Lok sabha is head of this jammat) Its not a taken for granted thing when Muslims r concerned.

I say u again read my posts in reply to hindu Guy...we had talked about this in detail there. U n him have same concerns.

 

[bronxbull]

India's growth depends only upon giving talented,hardworking.earnest worthwhile individuals power and money,common sense ll take care of the rest.

 

[doppelganger]

India's growth depends on the maximum number of Indians growing and succeeding from all walks of life.

Any policy that targets Indians for favor or special treatment based on the faith they profess goes against the very basis of being Indian and is thus anti-national in letter and spirit.

Poverty is not specific to a faith. Neither is lack of education. Or poor housing and sanitation. Or hunger and unemployment. Or the absence of primary healthcare.

 

[Ayush]

India's growth depends on the maximum number of Indians growing and succeeding from all walks of life.

Any policy that targets Indians for favor or special treatment based on the faith they profess goes against the very basis of being Indian and is thus anti-national in letter and spirit.

Poverty is not specific to a faith. Neither is lack of education. Or poor housing and sanitation. Or hunger and unemployment. Or the absence of primary healthcare.

welcome to pdf mate.

 

[doppelganger]

welcome to pdf mate.

Thank you Ayush.

 

[Ayush]

Thank you Ayush.

you can have your introduction thread in members introduction.

best of luck.enjoy your stay here.

 

[Black Widow]

Instead of 25% population in India, Instead of massive vote bank why Muslims lag in India... An Independent view from BBC.

????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???????? - BBC Hindi - ????

Its in Hindi, in spare time I will translate it to English.These are the main point mentioned here.

1. Muslims are vote bank in India, they vote in bulk.
2. To woo Muslims , Indian politicians have helped Islam by making Mosque, Appointing Mullas, Spreading Urdu, etc..

 

[danger007]

I don't understand why aeronaut deleted my post?... I mentioned India growth is depends upon the growth of middle class and poor, not just with muslim or any particular religion...

lol what a moderation...

 

[cloud_9]

Dude im a Muslim.

for being a Muslim u should have complete eman on the concepts of Islam through Prophet PBUH.
If u dont beileve in the last n end of prophet hood on Muhammad PBUH then u dont satisfy the basic concept of Islam ie Kaliama Tauiba.

La ilaha illallah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah!!!!!!

There is not God but Allah and prophet Muhammad is the last n final Prophet of Allah.

Now yr coming in the same context so lets discuss.

I had mentioned in my post to mr shamk9 that according to the basic LAW of Islam anyone who doesnt recognize Prophet Muhammad as the last n final prophet of All Mighty n doesnt believe this is not a Muslim technically no matter how much they claim they cant be considered as Muslims. Its like i being a Pakistani claim myself to be an indian national on the basis that some of my ancestors used to be indian once in the times of United India.

So will i be recognized as an indian citizen??
certainly no no matter how much i jump up n down.

So according to a the basic concept of Islam they r not Muslims, this is not just Pakistani philosophy, but Muslims all around the World accept that n the reason why they dont have such law who says that is because there is NO Ahmedi known population in the World other then SA in general.

And our Constitution was designed in such a way that it reflects Islamic principles as a whole as we Being Declared as Islamic Republic of Pakistan from federation of Pakistan in 1973's constitution that is since then is accepted as final n supreme constitution.


Ok so yr a basically a non muslim.

And the reason why yr a non religious person is because of the Mistake of yr Parents of not reverting to either religion before marriage.