India's global power aspirations a far fetched idea

[TechLahore]

hmm... France and England come to mind as the global powers of the centuries before the 1st world war. Whats the distance between them again??

Anyway, I dont conform to the theory of India being a global power as yet. A few decades down the line.. who knows ?? Right now even China is not one.. On its way.. yes, sure.. but no way near...

England was not able to dominate globally until it bested France in war. And that was the beginning of French decline. Their powers did not peak at the same time.

btw, the immidiate neighbourhood of China includes Russia and Japan. Doesnt it??

Yes, it does. And Japan is trying to figure out how the hell they survive a China dominated future. There is a lot of discussion going on in Japan to try and make up with China - especially because they have territorial disputes with Russia also. They are going to be in a tough spot, but many analysts believe they will not attempt to pose a military or strategic challenge to China, and China will allow them to exist as a second tier player.

As for Russia, Russia has *always* looked westward. The Russian obsession with Europe predates the USSR and goes all the way back to Tsarist desires and the Muscovy state. Russia also does not see itself as a competitor to China. They are focused on mutually exclusive goals. Russia is an energy exporter, China is an energy importer. Russia can see a future where it has issues with the west, so does China. The CARs are no longer part of the USSR and therefore many potential sources of dispute with China have been erased. Russia is not going to be inimical to China, or a counter to China.

China is definitely the pre-eminent power in the region. No question. Notice where they are focusing their attention now. On their Navy and their sea denial capabilities. The anti-carrier ICBMs, the submarines that magically pop up undetected in the midst of a USN exercise, the carrier development, the blanketing of Taiwan and its straits with LRSAMs and so on. China only sees the USN as a legitimate player that it has to work to counter... it doesn't even consider India to be a serious threat. If it did, their army wouldn't keep walking into India and leaving heaps of trash there. That's just plain insulting. And you wouldn't do it with someone you considered an equal, or a serious threat.

 

[foxbat]

And yes.. China is definitely way ahead of India today. Anyone argueing against that is suffering from a false sense of national pride. However, China against India is still nowhere near where USA is aganst a Canada or Mexico.

Also Russia is a big bear next door to China and hence complete regional domination for China is also difficult today. In my view, its still quite some time if at all, before China's acceleration translates into Velocity / energy in enough magnitude for it to become a global power.

About Russia, this mutually exclusive goals only last till the 2 counties grow without intersecting. Sooner or later the space is finished and you start bumping into each other. And that time will come for Russia and China way before China can forray into the global power club.


On France and England, they may have peaked at different times, very much like USA and USSR, but for a large period of time before WW they were the only 2 global powers in the world. with a common border.

 

[indushek]

Whatever may be our discussions the truth is China is way ahead of India right now. So no comparision, let us get through present than talk about future and dream about it.

 

[IndianArmy]

indian will never ever be a global power if it happened world willl never accept it because it is just one hindu country in the world but it is just because it is not going to happen even in dreams china,Arab World,Pakistan,USA will be the first one to stop india

 

[prototype]

^^ Actually, it is. Because it dominates India in every sphere. I refer you to the latest Foreign Affairs which puts India within China's sphere of influence, and says that India will try to resist. Attempting to resist is ok... after all Poland and France tried to resist Germany too. But the reality is that India is unable to pose a strategic challenge to China. China is already a global power. Just look at their role in SCO. India is asking to join SCO even though the "S" in SCO is all about China, and the funding for SCO projects is almost exclusively from China. China is to SCO what the US is to NATO. If India were confident of posing a strategic challenge to China it would not be attempting to become a second tier player in a global organization run and controlled by China. And I say this as one of a hundred possible ways to frame the argument. Look at human development, infrastructure, economy etc. etc. there is no per-capita comparison.

about the SCO,its nothing more than a third world waste organization,if russia was not a part of it,it should b even noticed in the world,India want to b a part of SCO because of russia and as it consider it as just an economic organization,not a military 1

and stop comparing china with germany,china is nowere near germany during the second world war era

and if economy,infrastructure is comparison the same is applicable to india-pak scenario also

 

[trident2010]

Our power is growing but global power, no way. We have so many issues to sort out ranging from poverty to corruption, infrastructure to education.

I started this thread and posted the article to do the realistic debate regarding the position of India in global terms. The only thing where Indians are treated powerful is economy and IT. However, it is just not enough to prove anything. The next thing India should focus on infrastructure, education and health.

The dynamics of south asia is very different from europe so comparing both is not going to help. In europe, the people have differences not their governments, in asia, governments have differences not the people.

Lets hope governments sort out the differences and we keep doing the hard work and not to loose concentration. When the correct time comes we don't have to prove anything to anyone. They just acknowledge ..

 

[ramu]

^^ Actually, it is. Because it dominates India in every sphere. I refer you to the latest Foreign Affairs which puts India within China's sphere of influence, and says that India will try to resist. Attempting to resist is ok... after all Poland and France tried to resist Germany too. But the reality is that India is unable to pose a strategic challenge to China. China is already a global power. Just look at their role in SCO. India is asking to join SCO even though the "S" in SCO is all about China, and the funding for SCO projects is almost exclusively from China. China is to SCO what the US is to NATO. If India were confident of posing a strategic challenge to China it would not be attempting to become a second tier player in a global organization run and controlled by China. And I say this as one of a hundred possible ways to frame the argument. Look at human development, infrastructure, economy etc. etc. there is no per-capita comparison.

With the same coin, Pakistan will try and resist. China is far ahead of India but the demographics clearly is in favour of India.

Wait for a few years are we can have this debate again.

 

[RobbieS]

If India's leadership is indeed thinking in terms of achieving global super power status, it has to sort out the internal issues first. The economic and the military power is rising but political power has to follow.

 

[Nemesis]

ngland was not able to dominate globally until it bested France in war. And that was the beginning of French decline. Their powers did not peak at the same time.

Really? A history lesson is in order. England became a global power after the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713 under the reign of Queen Anne. The French became a global power after Bonaparte took control, that was 1789. By the end of the 18th century both were world powers. So yes, they did peak at about the same time.

Yes, it does. And Japan is trying to figure out how the hell they survive a China dominated future. There is a lot of discussion going on in Japan to try and make up with China - especially because they have territorial disputes with Russia also. They are going to be in a tough spot, but many analysts believe they will not attempt to pose a military or strategic challenge to China, and China will allow them to exist as a second tier player.

I don't think so. Japan has a far stronger economy than China, if Japan were to reconsider their defensive posture, the Chinese would have serious problems.

 

[Ganga]

'


KARACHI: Although India is being considered a rising economic giant and a major political player in the region, analysts believe there is not a remote chance that the nuclear-armed country can become a global power to match US might.









“

India is not saying that it will become US in 5 or 6 years.It will take atleast 20 more years.

 

[Ganga]

indian will never ever be a global power if it happened world willl never accept it because it is just one hindu country in the world but it is just because it is not going to happen even in dreams china,Arab World,Pakistan,USA will be the first one to stop india

One of the funniest posts i have seen.

 

[thinkingcap81]

^^ Actually, it is. Because it dominates India in every sphere. I refer you to the latest Foreign Affairs which puts India within China's sphere of influence, and says that India will try to resist. Attempting to resist is ok... after all Poland and France tried to resist Germany too. But the reality is that India is unable to pose a strategic challenge to China.

Sure, as of now India does not equal China in many indicators of development. Buy you fail/refuse to see that India has not exhausted herself. Economists are predicting that we will see double digit growth rates soon may eventually be very close to China.

Europe and US have pretty much exhausted their growth potentials. Not the case for India. The growth potential is immense. Some quarters may love to believe otherwise and downgrade this.

The 50 year time frame required for India to be a globally dominant player is realistic. China will get there earlier --- so what? Why shouldn't India be at the top ranks a couple of decades later? There are many similarities between china and India in this regard.

People forget that 20 years back India was a nothing case. Today the story is different. If the converse is true then one must say that Pakistan will be just nothing compered to India. Now that's not logical right?

We Indians are willing to wait. We are doing better with each passing day and we'll get there. There is always room to be created.

China is already a global power. Just look at their role in SCO. India is asking to join SCO even though the "S" in SCO is all about China, and the funding for SCO projects is almost exclusively from China. China is to SCO what the US is to NATO. If India were confident of posing a strategic challenge to China it would not be attempting to become a second tier player in a global organization run and controlled by China.

SCO is all about China, but not yet anything of global scope. It has promise. If India is lower now, there is no harm in joining as a lesser partner just like the Indo-US relationship. As i said before, over time as India will start inching closer to China, things will change rapidly.

The naysayers can and will do nothing but watch.

 

[KSRaj]

^^ Actually, it is. Because it dominates India in every sphere. I refer you to the latest Foreign Affairs which puts India within China's sphere of influence, and says that India will try to resist. Attempting to resist is ok... after all Poland and France tried to resist Germany too. But the reality is that India is unable to pose a strategic challenge to China. China is already a global power. Just look at their role in SCO. India is asking to join SCO even though the "S" in SCO is all about China, and the funding for SCO projects is almost exclusively from China. China is to SCO what the US is to NATO. If India were confident of posing a strategic challenge to China it would not be attempting to become a second tier player in a global organization run and controlled by China. And I say this as one of a hundred possible ways to frame the argument. Look at human development, infrastructure, economy etc. etc. there is no per-capita comparison.

A query here:

Why is China trying to get into SAARC?

 

[balck soul]

indian will never ever be a global power if it happened world willl never accept it because it is just one hindu country in the world but it is just because it is not going to happen even in dreams china,Arab World,Pakistan,USA will be the first one to stop india

well cool down OK Pakistan is going to be next Asia and global power

now are you agree with me or not

what you think Pakistan as global power do you think is there any chance

world will be accept Pakistan as next global power

 

[KSRaj]

TechLahore,

A news article that may help you think with a fresh perspective:

India Blocks China SAARC Membership | 2point6billion.com - Foreign Direct Investment in Asia


India has apparently blocked an attempt by China to obtain membership in the South Asian Association for Regional Co-Operation (SAARC). China currently has observer status, but an attempt by member-nation Nepal to upgrade China to full status has been blocked through Indian lobbying. The move comes following moves by China to block ADB loans and other financing for projects along India’s border regions.

“A fresh entry into SAARC? I am afraid not. We have eight members and that is the way it is going to stay,” Indian Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao commented in Delhi on Friday. SAARC has been dominated by India since its formation in 1985.

Dubbed “the poor man’s club for aspiring rich people,” the area is now considered by China to be key and part of its own back yard. There is also some resentment from other members of the SAARC that India has had too much say and that China should be included to provide more financial and political balance. Beijing has indicated that it may assist India’s entry into the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in return for SAARC membership.