India’s expectations from the QUAD Summit

[vi-va]

I don't think India expects direct military intervention by QUAD or even wants it because then Russia would see this as a military alliance.

Instead, India will try to get maximum of everything else: advanced weapons, advanced technology, increased investment, infrastructure development, market access, increased immigration, etc.

The most the US will do in a real war is to provide real time intelligence and weapons to India.

Not a finger of U.S., Japan and Australia lifted during the Galwan Valley Skirmish.

What I mean, India wished U.S. had kept PLA at bay on the East Side during Galwan Valley Skirmish, such as large scale of military exercise near China coastal line, making direct threats to China, and so on.

No, nothing happened in Jun 2020. The Galwan Valley Skirmish is short, but the stand-off is very long, until today. Not a word from Trump to ease Modi's anxiety, which really disappointed Modi and his general a lot, such as Bipin Rawat.

In comparison, China made direct and blunt threat to India during Indo-Pakistani War of 1965.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965#Involvement_of_other_nations

"During the war, China openly supported the Pakistani position. It took advantage of the conflict to issue a strongly worded ultimatum to India condemning its "aggression" in Tibet and hinting at nuclear retaliation by China (China had exploded its first nuclear device the previous year)."

Indo-Pakistani war of 1971 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"During the course of the war, China harshly criticised India for its involvement in the East Pakistan crises, and accused India of having imperialistic designs in South Asia."

 

[WotTen]

What I mean, India wished U.S. had kept PLA at bay on the East Side during Galwan Valley Skirmish, such as large scale of military exercise near China coastal line, making direct threats to China, and so on.

I don't think such military exercises would have made a difference anyway because China knows that

a. The US will never sacrifice a single American soldier to help India.
b. If war broke out with India, the US can move major assets to SCS or Taiwan/Japan quickly enough anyway.

 

[vi-va]

I don't think such military exercises would have made a difference anyway because China knows that

a. The US will never sacrifice a single American soldier to help India.
b. If war broke out with India, the US can move major assets to SCS or Taiwan/Japan quickly enough anyway.

If U.S. didn't and won't help India when crisis happens, what's the hype of QUAD all about? LOL

Unlike BRICS, which is an economy and financial org, the other 3 members of QUAD had made it very clear they want to contain China all together militarily.
The ugly truth is, they nudged India to the front line of confrontation and hide behind.

China-India relationship was not that confrontational before Galwan Valley Skirmish, there was no one got killed for decades. And BJP/Modi blindly believes the U.S., close their eye and jump.
India screwed up relationship with both Pakistan and China in the same time.

What a fool.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

India will be like the waiter for the other quad members…..doing what its told…..brown will happily oblige its masters yes?

You are projecting. Get better

 

[WotTen]

The ugly truth is, they nudged India to the front line of confrontation and hide behind.

There is truth to what you say.

The US will not give away its goodies without demanding something concrete in return. In Pakistan, we are used to it and call it 'do more'. We will need to see how India handles this American 'do more' trap.

 

[vi-va]

There is truth to what you say.

The US will not give away its goodies without demanding something concrete in return. In Pakistan, we are used to it and call it 'do more'. We will need to see how India handles this American 'do more' trap.

My understanding of Indians' mindset.

India will ask Americans "Do More". They believe it's India who has the upper hand and opportunities regardless ground reality.

While, Americans are very proud and arrogant as you know, they will ask India "Do More".

I am very serious. That's both countries' nationality, it's very hard to change.

In Chinese, we call it “干大事而惜身, 见小利而忘义”, which machine translate into 'Do big things but cherish oneself, see small gains but forget righteousness'

 

[WotTen]

My understanding of Indians' mindset.

India will ask Americans "Do More". They believe it's India who has the upper hand and opportunities regardless ground reality.

While, Americans are very proud and arrogant as you know, they will ask India "Do More".

I am very serious. That's both countries' nationality, it's very hard to change.

In Chinese, we call it “干大事而惜身, 见小利而忘义”, which machine translate into 'Do big things but cherish oneself, see small gains but forget righteousness'

LOL, let's see what happens....

 

[defencenoob]

My understanding of Indians' mindset.

India will ask Americans "Do More". They believe it's India who has the upper hand and opportunities regardless ground reality.

While, Americans are very proud and arrogant as you know, they will ask India "Do More".

I am very serious. That's both countries' nationality, it's very hard to change.

In Chinese, we call it “干大事而惜身, 见小利而忘义”, which machine translate into 'Do big things but cherish oneself, see small gains but forget righteousness'

Indian old philosophy teaches four goals in life, artha (prosperity), kāma (desire) and dharma (righteous living) the fourth and the ultimate goal of life, moksha.
So we will take time to reach our goals of economic gains ( artha ) but not at the cost of righteousness( dharma ).

China and India both know that the future is ours, both of us have practised non Alignment and have prioritised our political independence. India will try to be as non-aligned as possible. Its China that is pushing India into the US influence, by actions like:
1) Belt Road through the occupied Kashmir territory.
2) Activity at LCA.
3) Selling to Pakistan JF-17, Type 054A/P, Type 053H3, Type 039B submarines.

 

[vi-va]

Indian old philosophy teaches four goals in life, artha (prosperity), kāma (desire) and dharma (righteous living) the fourth and the ultimate goal of life, moksha.
So we will take time to reach our goals of economic gains ( artha ) but not at the cost of righteousness( dharma ).

China and India both know that the future is ours, both of us have practised non Alignment and have prioritised our political independence. India will try to be as non-aligned as possible. Its China that is pushing India into the US influence, by actions like:
1) Belt Road through the occupied Kashmir territory.
2) Activity at LCA.
3) Selling to Pakistan JF-17, Type 054A/P, Type 053H3, Type 039B submarines.

1. The story started from Nehru forward policy if you don't know.
2. The Road was built since 1966
3. India built road in disputed territory also
4. India has activity at LCA as well, more than Chinese since India is closer to the frontline
5. India bought weapons from Russia, and the west. China didn't see this is an issue. You can't block others from buying weapons here and there

Let's say, it's a long story, and there are many factors. But after all, if India see China as a threat, then China will be a threat, a real one.

I don't see India has harmonious relationship with any neighbors, if you put all the rhetoric aside. Not Pakistan, not China, not Bangladesh, not Nepal, not Sri Lanka, not Bhutan, not Maldives, not Myanmar.

India has 8 neighbors, all of them either hate you, or dislike you, or despite you, or afraid of you. All of India neighbors must be wrong, all of them.
India has a hegemonic mindset, in Indian subcontinent and Indian Ocean, and expansionism.

Last but not least, India has little trade relationship with your neighbors, but much bigger trade volume with west. Most of India neighbors trade more with China.
China has issues with neighbors, such as Vietnam, Taiwan province, Japan, South Korea. While China is their single biggest trading partner.

That's the difference of mindset.

 

[etylo]

Indian old philosophy teaches four goals in life, artha (prosperity), kāma (desire) and dharma (righteous living) the fourth and the ultimate goal of life, moksha.
So we will take time to reach our goals of economic gains ( artha ) but not at the cost of righteousness( dharma ).

China and India both know that the future is ours, both of us have practised non Alignment and have prioritised our political independence. India will try to be as non-aligned as possible. Its China that is pushing India into the US influence, by actions like:
1) Belt Road through the occupied Kashmir territory.
2) Activity at LCA.
3) Selling to Pakistan JF-17, Type 054A/P, Type 053H3, Type 039B submarines.

Who do you think you Indians are, masters of China to have such demands of China ? To have above objections of above Chinese deeds are totally out of your right.

 

[tower9]

If U.S. didn't and won't help India when crisis happens, what's the hype of QUAD all about? LOL

Unlike BRICS, which is an economy and financial org, the other 3 members of QUAD had made it very clear they want to contain China all together militarily.
The ugly truth is, they nudged India to the front line of confrontation and hide behind.

China-India relationship was not that confrontational before Galwan Valley Skirmish, there was no one got killed for decades. And BJP/Modi blindly believes the U.S., close their eye and jump.
India screwed up relationship with both Pakistan and China in the same time.

What a fool.

So basically the quad wants india to be the Ukraine of Asia.

I don’t think it’s going to work. India doesn’t fully trust the US and is too close to Russia.

 

[defencenoob]

1. The story started from Nehru forward policy if you don't know.
2. The Road was built since 1966
3. India built road in disputed territory also
4. India has activity at LCA as well, more than Chinese since India is closer to the frontline
5. India bought weapons from Russia, and the west. China didn't see this is an issue. You can't block others from buying weapons here and there

Let's say, it's a long story, and there are many factors. But after all, if India see China as a threat, then China will be a threat, a real one.

I don't see India has harmonious relationship with any neighbors, if you put all the rhetoric aside. Not Pakistan, not China, not Bangladesh, not Nepal, not Sri Lanka, not Bhutan, not Maldives, not Myanmar.

India has 8 neighbors, all of them either hate you, or dislike you, or despite you, or afraid of you. All of India neighbors must be wrong, all of them.
India has a hegemonic mindset, in Indian subcontinent and Indian Ocean, and expansionism.

Last but not least, India has little trade relationship with your neighbors, but much bigger trade volume with west. Most of India neighbors trade more with China.
China has issues with neighbors, such as Vietnam, Taiwan province, Japan, South Korea. While China is their single biggest trading partner.

That's the difference of mindset.

I understand that it's a long story with many factors. I don't deny that, I was merely explaining why India is growing closer to the USA.
I don't think India has a right to dictate to China, but neither you have a right to tell us to join the Quad or not, we will act in our best interests.

India has very positive relations with Afghanistan (even good developing relations with the new Taliban regime), Bhutan, and Bangladesh.
India had a love and hate relationship with Srilanka, Nepal. With things improving with both of them. In fact, Nepal was a mostly positive relationship barring the recent time with Maoism in Nepal's domestic politics. Also, India is Nepal's top trading partner, while you have the highest FDI in Nepal.
I don't know about our ties with Myanmar. And we all know about India Pakistan relationship.

It's funny you blame India for hegemonic and expansionism, while the whole world blames you for the same.
And about you being your neighbours' single biggest trading partner, that's because you are the factory of the world, not because they love or respect you.
It is just the last 25-35 years of your strong economy and growth, you started developing since 1970 Nixon's visit to China, don't be so over your head, talking about mindset etc. Things change fast in 4-5 decades, and you know we are slowly catching up with you. You will be the biggest economy in the world but we will be the second biggest in time.

Most importantly with respect, I will try to explain again.
How will you feel if India was to provide Taiwan with Nuclear Missiles? That's exactly how we feel when you equip Pakistan with fighters and Subs.
Not that Taiwan needs India, but if we start building ports there and dock our subs, how will you feel?
I am just trying to communicate our position to you, I hope you don't take it badly.

We see the US as the wolf, but if the dragon keeps pushing us then we will partner with the wolf.
China wants to control/dominate the world, it has to think if a friendly India helps them in their goal.

 

[vishwambhar]

India is a big asset to QUAD with a biggest military (not as advance as other QUAD partners)..... World is actually watching how India is manipulating everything from USA to Russia on her terms and still haters if want to leave in the delusion that QUAD won't accept India's demands or expectations then let them build their castles in the Air..... Don't disturb enemy when he's under delusion...

 

[vi-va]

I understand that it's a long story with many factors. I don't deny that, I was merely explaining why India is growing closer to the USA.
I don't think India has a right to dictate to China, but neither you have a right to tell us to join the Quad or not, we will act in our best interests.

India has very positive relations with Afghanistan (even good developing relations with the new Taliban regime), Bhutan, and Bangladesh.
India had a love and hate relationship with Srilanka, Nepal. With things improving with both of them. In fact, Nepal was a mostly positive relationship barring the recent time with Maoism in Nepal's domestic politics. Also, India is Nepal's top trading partner, while you have the highest FDI in Nepal.
I don't know about our ties with Myanmar. And we all know about India Pakistan relationship.

It's funny you blame India for hegemonic and expansionism, while the whole world blames you for the same.
And about you being your neighbours' single biggest trading partner, that's because you are the factory of the world, not because they love or respect you.
It is just the last 25-35 years of your strong economy and growth, you started developing since 1970 Nixon's visit to China, don't be so over your head, talking about mindset etc. Things change fast in 4-5 decades, and you know we are slowly catching up with you. You will be the biggest economy in the world but we will be the second biggest in time.

Most importantly with respect, I will try to explain again.
How will you feel if India was to provide Taiwan with Nuclear Missiles? That's exactly how we feel when you equip Pakistan with fighters and Subs.
Not that Taiwan needs India, but if we start building ports there and dock our subs, how will you feel?
I am just trying to communicate our position to you, I hope you don't take it badly.

We see the US as the wolf, but if the dragon keeps pushing us then we will partner with the wolf.
China wants to control/dominate the world, it has to think if a friendly India helps them in their goal.

No one has a positive relationship with Afghanistan. There is no Afghanistan in the first place, there are Taliban, tribes, Pashtuns, Tajik. Afghanistan only exist on the map and UN, not ground reality.

Bhutan is India's protectorate state. This is not an ordinary foreign relationship.

India will not provide weapons to Taiwan because this is not feasible. China will retaliate. No one dare to do this, with one exception, U.S.

China can provide weapons to Pakistan, because Pakistan is a sovereign state, while Taiwan isn't.

China is realist. India is realist as well. China did what needs to be done,while India did the same.

The only difference is power gap between 2 nations.

 

[defencenoob]

No one has a positive relationship with Afghanistan. There is no Afghanistan in the first place, there are Taliban, tribes, Pashtuns, Tajik. Afghanistan only exist on the map and UN, not ground reality.

Bhutan is India's protectorate state. This is not an ordinary foreign relationship.

India will not provide weapons to Taiwan because this is not feasible. China will retaliate. No one dare to do this, with one exception, U.S.

China can provide weapons to Pakistan, because Pakistan is a sovereign state, while Taiwan isn't.

Exactly, India won't provide weapons to Taiwan. But if they did you know exactly how China will feel, it will retaliate, economically, and our relationship will suffer.
Similarly our relationship with China is suffering and we our closer to the west block because China provides weapons to Pakistan.

The only difference is power gap between 2 nations.

Yes a huge one, and it looks like is widening but hopefully we will catch up in the next 20-30 years. At least we will be a $10T-20T economy by then.

Exactly, India won't provide weapons to Taiwan. But if they did you know exactly how China will feel, it will retaliate, economically, and our relationship will suffer.
Similarly our relationship with China is suffering and we our closer to the west block because China provides weapons to Pakistan.


Yes a huge one, and it looks like is widening but hopefully we will catch up in the next 20-30 years. At least we will be a $10T-20T economy by then.

This is how china grew to a 2-3T GDP till 2005. Look how similar is Indian chart.
China:

https://imgur.com/a/Ze38zO1

India:

https://imgur.com/a/gN2Vzqn