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India's Demonetization Looking Good - IIP Up 5.7% For November

IndoCarib

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We should never place too much weight on just one economic statistic. But that India's industrial production rose 5.7% in November is an interesting number just the same. For this is really the first hard number we've had concerning the Indian economy to include part of the period of demonetization. And it's not a bad number -- so perhaps the chaos of the process hasn't done that much short term economic harm? However, it's also true that there's a significant fault line in Indian economic statistics, one that's much larger than in most other economies that we study. That's the division between the formal and informal parts of said Indian economy. And that does make this number, as with so many others, harder to interpret.

The news itself:

A sharp jump in the November factory output numbers comes as a pleasant positive surprise for the economy amid slowdown stories in the aftermath of demonetisation. The index of Industrial Production (IIP) rose to a 13-month high of 5.7 percent in November compared with a contraction of 1.8 percent in the month of October.

There are qualifiers that should be applied here:


In fact, the IIP in November (175.8) was lower than October 2016 (178.1), suggesting industrial production actually dropped sequentially, as was mostly the case in earlier months as well. “Going by the production trend in some sectors such as auto, next month’s (December) IIP growth data may be more indicative of the impact of demonetization,” Crisil Research wrote after Thursday’s data release.

Year-over-year figures as against the monthly acceleration, the slight change in the date of Diwali moving the holiday from one month to another. The qualifications can all be argued about. But it's also true that an expansion of industrial output in the month of demonetization is not evidence of some great catastrophe that accompanied the move.

Consumer inflation fell in December 2016 to 3.41%, the lowest since November 2014, leaving room for the Reserve Bank of India to cut rates next month. CPI inflation was marginally higher at 3.63% in November 2016.

Consumer inflation falling is also a good thing.

We must be careful about all of these numbers though. Yes, it's interesting that these are the first hard ones on the Indian economy since demonetization. The most recent official figures, to be used for the coming budget, rely upon data collected up to about the end of October. Everything since then is a forecast. But in the way that time passes so we'll start getting real numbers out of the economy which include the demonetization period.

But the vast majority of India's economy is over in the informal sector which produces two problems for us. The first is that survey data like this new IIP number are obviously easier to collect from the formal than the informal economy. So the numbers are biased by sector. And we can also construct models--but then we can construct economic models to include just about anything--where the impact of demonetization is much greater upon the informal sector than formal. Even, that there could be a rise in the formal sector, one smaller than the loss in the informal, as a result. The informal sector could be entirely cash reliant, the formal one able to pick up lost business by already having access to bank accounts and electronic payments.

Thus we're still in the dark. Economic statistics just aren't good enough as yet for us to be able to work out the full effects of something we've already done. One interesting lesson of which is that we just shouldn't be trying to plan an economy. For if we don't even know the effects of what has been done how can we predict the effects of what we might do?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ng-good-iip-up-5-7-for-november/#2018d0cb3da8
 
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We should never place too much weight on just one economic statistic. But that India's industrial production rose 5.7% in November is an interesting number just the same. For this is really the first hard number we've had concerning the Indian economy to include part of the period of demonetization. And it's not a bad number -- so perhaps the chaos of the process hasn't done that much short term economic harm? However, it's also true that there's a significant fault line in Indian economic statistics, one that's much larger than in most other economies that we study. That's the division between the formal and informal parts of said Indian economy. And that does make this number, as with so many others, harder to interpret.

The news itself:

A sharp jump in the November factory output numbers comes as a pleasant positive surprise for the economy amid slowdown stories in the aftermath of demonetisation. The index of Industrial Production (IIP) rose to a 13-month high of 5.7 percent in November compared with a contraction of 1.8 percent in the month of October.

There are qualifiers that should be applied here:


In fact, the IIP in November (175.8) was lower than October 2016 (178.1), suggesting industrial production actually dropped sequentially, as was mostly the case in earlier months as well. “Going by the production trend in some sectors such as auto, next month’s (December) IIP growth data may be more indicative of the impact of demonetization,” Crisil Research wrote after Thursday’s data release.

Year-over-year figures as against the monthly acceleration, the slight change in the date of Diwali moving the holiday from one month to another. The qualifications can all be argued about. But it's also true that an expansion of industrial output in the month of demonetization is not evidence of some great catastrophe that accompanied the move.

Consumer inflation fell in December 2016 to 3.41%, the lowest since November 2014, leaving room for the Reserve Bank of India to cut rates next month. CPI inflation was marginally higher at 3.63% in November 2016.

Consumer inflation falling is also a good thing.

We must be careful about all of these numbers though. Yes, it's interesting that these are the first hard ones on the Indian economy since demonetization. The most recent official figures, to be used for the coming budget, rely upon data collected up to about the end of October. Everything since then is a forecast. But in the way that time passes so we'll start getting real numbers out of the economy which include the demonetization period.

But the vast majority of India's economy is over in the informal sector which produces two problems for us. The first is that survey data like this new IIP number are obviously easier to collect from the formal than the informal economy. So the numbers are biased by sector. And we can also construct models--but then we can construct economic models to include just about anything--where the impact of demonetization is much greater upon the informal sector than formal. Even, that there could be a rise in the formal sector, one smaller than the loss in the informal, as a result. The informal sector could be entirely cash reliant, the formal one able to pick up lost business by already having access to bank accounts and electronic payments.

Thus we're still in the dark. Economic statistics just aren't good enough as yet for us to be able to work out the full effects of something we've already done. One interesting lesson of which is that we just shouldn't be trying to plan an economy. For if we don't even know the effects of what has been done how can we predict the effects of what we might do?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ng-good-iip-up-5-7-for-november/#2018d0cb3da8

There's more good news to follow. I have some preliminary data from a spectrum of industries and manufacturing where I have contacts....there is very good fundamental consumption led data in them. The impact has been marginal and the long term looks much rosier now given the financial cleansing of the money system (which will help credit to expand long term)

Demonetisation direct major lasting impact this year and next will be how much benefit the banks get. A series of banks (you will see their names in the coming months officially) are already able to use the cash injection into savings to help resolve some of their NPAs and this will shore up credit environment in India finally (the long lasting remnant of UPA mismanagement that has thus far refused to go away).

If Budget contains some good measures on aiding non-banking financial institutions, impact on MSMEs and informal sector will be further mitigated and the pros will outweigh the cons by 3 to 1 or more by my estimation.
 
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https://defence.pk/threads/humiliat...events-rbi-staff-write-to-urjit-patel.472427/

This was posted a few minutes before.......one of ya'll is lying.

Both are correct. The IIP data shows the effect of demonetization in November was marginal. And the letter is talking about internal politics within RBI. The staff believes the RBI governor gave up autonomy to the govt and the letter asks the gov to retake autonomy, but we don't know that for sure because it's still a national secret.

If you haven't noticed, the letter actually says RBI did a very good job of demonetization.

There's more good news to follow. I have some preliminary data from a spectrum of industries and manufacturing where I have contacts....there is very good fundamental consumption led data in them. The impact has been marginal and the long term looks much rosier now given the financial cleansing of the money system (which will help credit to expand long term)

Demonetisation direct major lasting impact this year and next will be how much benefit the banks get. A series of banks (you will see their names in the coming months officially) are already able to use the cash injection into savings to help resolve some of their NPAs and this will shore up credit environment in India finally (the long lasting remnant of UPA mismanagement that has thus far refused to go away).

If Budget contains some good measures on aiding non-banking financial institutions, impact on MSMEs and informal sector will be further mitigated and the pros will outweigh the cons by 3 to 1 or more by my estimation.

The December data will throw more light. But yeah, the negative impact of demonetization has been limited at the macroeconomic level overall. No mass starvation, no major inflation or deflation, no law & order crisis etc.
@jaunty

The World Bank has good news too.
http://www.voanews.com/a/world-bank-india-demonetization-slowdown-to-be-short-lived/3674817.html

Where's the PDF CCP now?
@Han Patriot @Two @rott @Chinese-Dragon and others
 
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Both are correct. The IIP data shows the effect of demonetization in November was marginal. And the letter is talking about internal politics within RBI. The staff believes the RBI governor gave up autonomy to the govt and the letter asks the gov to retake autonomy, but we don't know that for sure because it's still a national secret.

If you haven't noticed, the letter actually says RBI did a very good job of demonetization.



The December data will throw more light. But yeah, the negative impact of demonetization has been limited at the macroeconomic level overall. No mass starvation, no major inflation or deflation, no law & order crisis etc.
@jaunty

The World Bank has good news too.
http://www.voanews.com/a/world-bank-india-demonetization-slowdown-to-be-short-lived/3674817.html

Where's the PDF CCP now?
@Han Patriot @Two @rott @Chinese-Dragon and others
What happened? I just bought a bottle of soy sauce...
@randomradio Please pay attention to your tone.
@Nilgiri Long time no see, my friend.
 
. . .
The December data will throw more light. But yeah, the negative impact of demonetization has been limited at the macroeconomic level overall. No mass starvation, no major inflation or deflation, no law & order crisis etc.
@jaunty

Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said those things. Besides, do you consider lack of mass starvation and law and order crisis as success of demonitization?

As for the IIP data, as you rightly said, December data will reveal if it had any impact or not. Also it was negative last November, so even a small positive change can produce misleading data. But one thing I do admit that if IIP was poor, opposition would have used it against demonitization.



I won't necessarily call lowering of growth forecast by 0.6% as a good news, especially considering we are yet to see any tangible benefit from demonitization. At best it can be termed as limited damage.
 
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Don't put words in my mouth. I have never said those things. Besides, do you consider lack of mass starvation and law and order crisis as success of demonitization?

As for the IIP data, as you rightly said, December data will reveal if it had any impact or not. Also it was negative last November, so even a small positive change can produce misleading data. But one thing I do admit that if IIP was poor, opposition would have used it against demonitization.

I won't necessarily call lowering of growth forecast by 0.6% as a good news, especially considering we are yet to see any tangible benefit from demonitization. At best it can be termed as limited damage.

Nothing in my post was directed towards you. I only mentioned your name to bring your attention to this thread.
 
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Haha, which forum did you visit recently?
I still think of you as my best friend in India.

You words are very kind. Thanks!

Posting forum names and links is against the rules here.

So I sent an email to the account you posted on your profile page. Hope thats ok.
 
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Nothing in my post was directed towards you. I only mentioned your name to bring your attention to this thread.

especially considering we are yet to see any tangible benefit from demonitization. At best it can be termed as limited damage.
I can give you anecdotal evidence. I know of a couple of businesses that were totally operating in cash before DeMo hit them.

Because of this they are now registering companies and have said that all future business will be conducted in white to avoid the trouble they went through(emotional + mental trauma) to convert their money(which they did successfully, every last penny) after DeMo happened.

So the way I am seeing it is that the black money that GoI expected not to come into the system has actually come in.

So, no short term gain, but long term financial cleansing of the system, improved tax compliance are among the major benefits that will accrue to the nation.
 
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well teh ATM ques have finally vanished, and that's all I care about. :P

still unconvinced it did anything but greatly inconvenience ordinary folk, oh well..
 
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I can give you anecdotal evidence. I know of a couple of businesses that were totally operating in cash before DeMo hit them.

Because of this they are now registering companies and have said that all future business will be conducted in white to avoid the trouble they went through(emotional + mental trauma) to convert their money(which they did successfully, every last penny) after DeMo happened.

So the way I am seeing it is that the black money that GoI expected not to come into the system has actually come in.

So, no short term gain, but long term financial cleansing of the system, improved tax compliance are among the major benefits that will accrue to the nation.

Basically, the informal sector will become smaller and the formal sector will become bigger.
 
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