India's Cold Start Is Too Hot

[DelhiDareDevil]

India should realise, Pakistan isnt worth enough trouble and should try to keep minimum relationship with Pakistan.

Pakistan is suffering from her own problems and in turn her GDP is poor. In turn, India cannot afford a war with Pakistan, we will suffer more damages, even if India wins the war in 2-3 days with all foriegn companies leaving India for good.

India should try to keep strict control of the border line and sea water. And use our military for defence purposes with likes of China.

 

[JonAsad]

Before Nasr:

- India attacks
- Indian cities get nuked
- India retaliates
- MAD

Worst case scenario is a full scale war- The reason: India Attacks

After Nasr:

- India attacks
- Pakistan nukes Indian troops with Nasr
- Pakistani cities get nuked
- MAD

Worst case scenario in case of CSD Limited war- The Reason: India Attacks

You see the whole point of having such systems is to prevent a WAR- or in other words prevent India from attacking Pakistan for what ever the reasons- So i see an advantage of NASR here- Prevent CSD to happen-

For me it seems that the Nasr was developed in order to fill the gap, namely speaking: India's conventional advantage and the Cold Start Doctrine. But all it has done is fill a gap which didn't exist in the first place. Your conventional nukes offered much more deterrence against the CSD. The Nasr pretty much allows India to take the risk and assuming the Nasr is used, India then has a perfect excuse to unleash a massive retaliatory nuclear strike.

You are talking completely nuclear here- CSD will not lead to a full scale nuclear war-CSD was never for a prolonged war- its for- cm on you know better what your CSD is for- and the assumption of we retaliating with conventional nukes is silly- we now have NASR- we'll go tactical- and the thought of that will keep your CSD at bay-

India then has a perfect excuse to unleash a massive retaliatory nuclear strike.

Well you guys know your rights and read them very well- What you forget is we have exactly the same right and we will use it- Pakistan will have the same excuse to use NASR- after all it will be retaliatory aswell-

Either way, when it comes to nukes (no matter which kind) all I can see happening is mutually assured destruction.

Yup- Hope it never happens-

 

[HariSeldon]

All assumptions, intel monitors all major indian formations, any movement to the border would most likely be detected. As to retaliation, I am reliably informed that through intermediaries - the indian's were told that any strike package attacking Pakistan would not have an airfield to return to

Interesting... hmmm let me ask you something...What is very imp asset during war which is hardest to destroy even with Nuke? Do you know the reason? (Nope they are not airfields)

Find out and you will understand that how absurd this claim is. Nuke are not magic bullet. The destruction it can cause is not infinite either in time or space.

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Worst case scenario is a full scale war- The reason: India Attacks



Worst case scenario in case of CSD Limited war- The Reason: India Attacks

You see the whole point of having such systems is to prevent a WAR- or in other words prevent India from attacking Pakistan for what ever the reasons- So i see an advantage of NASR here- Prevent CSD to happen-




You are talking completely nuclear here- CSD will not lead to a full scale nuclear war-CSD was never for a prolonged war- its for- cm on you know better what your CSD is for- and the assumption of we retaliating with conventional nukes is silly- we now have NASR- we'll go tactical- and the thought of that will keep your CSD at bay-




Well you guys know your rights and read them very well- What you forget is we have exactly the same right and we will use it- Pakistan will have the same excuse to use NASR- after all it will be retaliatory aswell-



Yup- Hope it never happens-

Its not NASR which will prevent a war between india and pakistan it will be deterrence value of u r long range missiles.
a second advice also, pakistan has been playing nculear card too often for comfort. pakistan thought india wouldnt counter atack and take back those heights for fear of escalating war as it might lead to nuclear war.

india correctly called the bluff and retook all heights. i know scenario will be different wen indian forces cross LOC but all i wanna say is that dont use N-word too often.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Worst case scenario is a full scale war- The reason: India Attacks

Worst case scenario in case of CSD Limited war- The Reason: India Attacks

Well of course, we are talking here about the CSD after all.

You see the whole point of having such systems is to prevent a WAR- or in other words prevent India from attacking Pakistan for what ever the reasons- So i see an advantage of NASR here- Prevent CSD to happen-

This is exactly what I'm questioning. What advantage does the Nasr offer which the Shaheen didn't?

You are talking completely nuclear here- CSD will not lead to a full scale nuclear war-CSD was never for a prolonged war- its for- cm on you know better what your CSD is for- and the assumption of we retaliating with conventional nukes is silly- we now have NASR- we'll go tactical- and the thought of that will keep your CSD at bay-

Again, I respectfully disagree. Any use of nukes by either party will lead to a Nuclear war right? So what's the use of having a smaller nuke as opposed to the whole "sha-bang"?

It seems the concept of tactical nukes is based on the presumption that India will either:

a) Not attack fearing the Nasr (which is the same deterrence the Shaheen offered)
b) Withdraw it's troops after being attacked and not retaliate fearing a nuclear escalation

To clarify, what I am questioning here is the purpose of the Nasr. Strategically speaking; what differentiates it from any of your conventional nukes?

Well you guys know your rights and read them very well- What you forget is we have exactly the same right and we will use it- Pakistan will have the same excuse to use NASR- after all it will be retaliatory aswell-

Pakistan would not have the same excuse. Pakistan would be the first party to use nukes, effectively destroying it's image on the international stage.

Yup- Hope it never happens-

 

[JonAsad]

i would like to burst u r bubble right now.

1. wen u lower u nuclear thresh hold by attacking indian armed forces with tactical nuclear weapon u become the "fall guy" not india. india will be at full liberty to strike at all u r nuclear sites and take out u r nuclear missiles site first simultaneously.

These homogeneous useless rants of these Indians- Let me say- Pakistan has the full liberty according to its nuclear policy to go nuclear in an event of a war- or in event of a certain defeat- Your cold start was just to counter it by not blowing a full scale war- just some sucker punches and back to your hole- Now NASR is to stop you from taking those cheap shots- Once you take one- disregarding the threats and ignoring the possible outcomes- Then nuclear it will be- We have the same right to go full nuclear to defend as you have to attack-

2. Now are u willing to use a tactical nuclear weapon. it is better to threaten a country by saying that they will launch hundreds of missiles simultaneously if it were attacked. so that the enemy country is cautious. now if that is the case wat is the actual utility of u r NASR missile. as i said it is useless as there is nothing called tactical nuclear weapons. if u use it once then be prepared for full scale nuclear war. and if u have to fight nuclear war wats the use of tiny NASR missile wen u have ghauris and shaeens (long range missile).

Tell me- Does not NASR makes your Military Think Tanks not Fan Boys like you- say Cautious of implementing CSD? Now dont repeat the rant again we will retaliate bla bla- Answer my question. Wasn't that cautiousness that lead to deterrence between us in first place?-

3. Lastly, if our cold start had gone cold there wouldnt have been so many pakistani members discussing it after all no one discusses "cold" things.

You can ask your self the same thing- If NASR is such a useless system- then why all the indians on the forum discussing it and working so hard to show it as of no strategic value?- ?-

better luck next time at making fun of me.

I don't need a next time to do such minor things- i just do it- all you have to do is feel it- accept it and move on -

 

[JonAsad]

but you will have to see indias nuclear policy as well even a low yield nuclear attack will result in massive retaliation from every where (sea land air) that is the reason it will be suicidal to use even a small nuke

Well you know what Pakistan nuclear Policy is- so why misadventure and flirt with your luck?- I mean its a common sense question- you can do w/e you want and we should not- thats silly- and in war scenarios a disaster-

 

[Markus]

Well you know what Pakistan nuclear Policy is- so why misadventure and flirt with your luck?- I mean its a common sense question- you can do w/e you want and we should not- thats silly- and in war scenarios a disaster-

We like flirting with danger.

We will test your Nasr very soon

We are waiting for another 26/11

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

These homogeneous useless rants of these Indians- Let me say- Pakistan has the full liberty according to its nuclear policy to go nuclear in an event of a war- or in event of a certain defeat- Your cold start was just to counter it by not blowing a full scale war- just some sucker punches and back to your hole- Now NASR is to stop you from taking those cheap shots- Once you take one- disregarding the threats and ignoring the possible outcomes- Then nuclear it will be- We have the same right to go full nuclear to defend as you have to attack-



Tell me- Does not NASR makes your Military Think Tanks not Fan Boys like you- say Cautious of implementing CSD? Now dont repeat the rant again we will retaliate bla bla- Answer my question. Wasn't that cautiousness that lead to deterrence between us in first place?-




You can ask your self the same thing- If NASR is such a useless system- then why all the indians on the forum discussing it and working so hard to show it as of no strategic value?- ?-


I don't need a next time to do such minor things- i just do it- all you have to do is feel it- accept it and move on -

all u r arguements have been replied upon by me and @deleted user. if u r facing too hard to accept facts i cant help it.

oh yes u do it, i guess thats wat are the manners taught to u. now accept it and move on.

 

[JonAsad]

Its not NASR which will prevent a war between india and pakistan it will be deterrence value of u r long range missiles.
a second advice also, pakistan has been playing nculear card too often for comfort. pakistan thought india wouldnt counter atack and take back those heights for fear of escalating war as it might lead to nuclear war.

india correctly called the bluff and retook all heights. i know scenario will be different wen indian forces cross LOC but all i wanna say is that dont use N-word too often.

Kargil happened- and we both were nuclear at that time- these logic which you are presenting are bizarre to start with- Did you meant that First Pakistan took the Indian nuclear bluff and started Kargil?- How can you just completely ignore this fact?- There was no chance of a nuclear confrontation during Kargil- If we apply the same assumed analogy of nuclear bluff there- when India were taking those heights back Pakistan would have nuked you right there- Note that point -

 

[JonAsad]

We like flirting with danger.

We will test your Nasr very soon

We are waiting for another 26/11

We know thats all what you want since 47- A reason to attack Pakistan-
Wonder what went wrong for you after 26/11- what stopped you from implementing cold start on NASRless Pakistan then -

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Kargil happened- and we both were nuclear at that time- these logic which you are presenting are bizarre to start with- Did you meant that First Pakistan took the Indian nuclear bluff and started Kargil?- How can you just completely ignore this fact?- There was no chance of a nuclear confrontation during Kargil- If we apply the same assumed analogy of nuclear bluff there- when India were taking those heights back Pakistan would have nuked you right there- Note that point -

no i am saying paksiatn thought it can take those hieghts thinking india wouldnt launch a counter attack for fear of escalating it to nuclear war. we called pakistani bluff correctly.

 

[JonAsad]

nasr is actually a gift to india really a gift to launch a full scale nuclear strike because they used a small tactical nuke.. Another self goal by pak4stan

Your Glory days of chat like trolling are soon to be over on PDF- enjoy while it lasts-

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

We know thats all what you want since 47- A reason to attack Pakistan-
Wonder what went wrong for you after 26/11- what stopped you from implementing cold start on NASRless Pakistan then -

we dont need to attack u, look around u r already under attack. daily bomb blasts plus u r dear friend US carrying missile strikes inside u r territory.

the present status quo is good for india.

BTW personally i m not big fan of CSD.

 

[foxbat]

We know thats all what you want since 47- A reason to attack Pakistan-
Wonder what went wrong for you after 26/11- what stopped you from implementing cold start on NASRless Pakistan then -

We dont attack Pakistan, because Pakistan is doing a pretty good job of damaging itself without any help from us. See your economic and diplomatic journey since 26/11/2008 and you will know what I mean.. Why waste military hardware where its not required