India's caste system goes back 2,000 years, genetic study finds

[bronxbull]

Idk, my grand father know most of his own grand parents names and those are all proper sounding pathan names

Possible.

But Conversions have been happening since 12th century,and migrations too,so difficult to tell.

 

[Armstrong]

You make everyone in punjab who says his caste is kashmiri as "butt" which is absolutely wrong. You dont know much about kashmiri caste people in punjab. For example my family is from a village and all our ancestors has been from surrounding villages and all used to do agriculture and were not "educated" people, neither are we seen as educated caste in my area. We are simply kashmiri farmers who make 70% of population in kashmir valley and are not "butt" by caste. We use "butt" as a surname but we know that we are not related to hindus at all and hence cannot be "butt". In punjab every tom and dick who came from kashmir was called "butt" by local punjabis because in punjabi culture people like to group other people under one banner. So people with "butt" surname are related to each other only as much as different punjabi castes like jatt, arain , gujjar or lohar are related to one another. Why I am saying this because you usually equate butt=kashmiri which is absolutely wrong, it is a historic mistake and it also explains why many people with "butt" surname in punjab look so different from each other. For example i remember when once i with my uncle met with some lahori butt sahab and he was uncomfortable with us when we said we are also "butt" because we looked like afghans which is not surprising because we are not descended from hindu "butt" brahmin people but are descended from normal kashmiri muslim cultivators or kashmir who are more related to people of gilgit and chilas etc.. The real "butt" brahmin coverts of kashmir look more indian than us kashmiri village folk descendants

Oh Bhai I am a Butt with roots in a place near Gulmarg !

And yes I've come across some remarkably dark complexioned Butt Sahiban as well that I usually refuse to believe could be Butt !

I've been mistaken for a Pukhtoon or a Balti owing to my somewhat smaller eyes (not exactly mongoloid but you know what I mean) numerous times !

 

[bronxbull]

He was from Gondal state,he was from a weaver/merchant family.

Gondal state is in Kathiwar,but i think he was born in Karachi and practiced law in Bombay.

Oh Bhai I am a Butt with roots in a place near Gulmarg !

And yes I've come across some remarkably dark complexioned Butt Sahiban as well that I usually refuse to believe could be Butt !

I've been mistaken for a Pukhtoon or a Balti owing to my somewhat smaller eyes (not exactly mongoloid but you know what I mean) numerous times !

As i repeat,The Kashmiri Pandit,i know are all very very fair.

They could also be very fair,but as with Hindu castes,they are never super fair,or that pale kinda fair.

 

[474474]

Dadi/Nani would be some Hindu caste/could be any.

Nana & Dada,less likely to be of Hindu caste but we can say for sure.

Nana coukd be of Gujarati and tell me more about Dada.



I dont see any contradiction.



Haan toh sab ke sab Hindu castes hain.

Well he mentioned some sort of yousufzai who migrated to India from kashmir, actually I know a lot of other urdu-speaking yousufzais so you might have heard of this kind?

Possible.

But Conversions have been happening since 12th century,and migrations too,so difficult to tell.

How about from skin complexion? In my fathers family dada and dadi are both dark skinned and all of the children are fair skinned, and nanial is equally mixed

 

[bronxbull]

Yousufzai are there,alla round.

Could be.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I once read that many Hindu converts too took the title of Khan.

Mostly people with the title "singh"..

 

[bronxbull]

Well he mentioned some sort of yousufzai who migrated to India from kashmir, actually I know a lot of other urdu-speaking yousufzais so you might have heard of this kind?



How about from skin complexion? In my fathers family dada and dadi are both dark skinned and all of the children are fair skinned, and nanial is equally mixed

Most invaders or outsiders came alone and married into Indian families,so nothing great.

Mostly people with the title "singh"..

No,The term Singh came much later after Guru Gobind Singh made the Khalsa.

Again Chotu,home work krke aana.

 

[474474]

Most invaders or outsiders came alone and married into Indian families,so nothing great.



No,The term Singh came much later after Guru Gobind Singh made the Khalsa.

Again Chotu,home work krke aana.

What were the usual marriageable castes?

 

[rustam90789]

Oh Bhai I am a Butt with roots in a place near Gulmarg !

And yes I've come across some remarkably dark complexioned Butt Sahiban as well that I usually refuse to believe could be Butt !

I've been mistaken for a Pukhtoon or a Balti owing to my somewhat smaller eyes (not exactly mongoloid but you know what I mean) numerous times !

Have you done your genetic test or sent your result to harappa dna project. I saw on particpant there who identified himself as kashmiri butt. But it is unusual for a kashmiri caste punjabi to have chinese like eyes. Gulmarg is not important. The divide in kashmir or even in punjab is always between city dwellers and villagers. I am saying we kashmiri caste people in my area are predominantly from rural kashmiri muslim immigrants over the centuries. We are not known to have anything with education even until recent times. I am the only member of my family who studied beyond school. My family and all our relatives live in nearby villages in the surroundings of wazirabad and were all some kind of cultivators in our previous generations. They always called themselves as kashmiri as a caste. Using Butt is very recent phenomenon for us and i think inspiration comes from lahore. But when i did some research i found that butt can only be someone descended from some hindu brahmin which we surely are not since we are historically uneducated agricultural folks, moreover a lot of our family members look "afghan" not pakistani pashtun type. In europe I am always identified as afghan, turk or kurd. I have never come across a hindu who would look like me or my relatives. We cannot be related to them else we would look like them.

 

[Armstrong]

Have you done your genetic test or sent your result to harappa dna project. I saw on particpant there who identified himself as kashmiri butt. But it is unusual for a kashmiri caste punjabi to have chinese like eyes. Gulmarg is not important. The divide in kashmir or even in punjab is always between city dwellers and villagers. I am saying we kashmiri caste people in my area are predominantly from rural kashmiri muslim immigrants over the centuries. We are not known to have anything with education even until recent times. I am the only member of my family who studied beyond school. My family and all our relatives live in nearby villages in the surroundings of wazirabad and were all some kind of cultivators in our previous generations. They always called themselves as kashmiri as a caste. Using Butt is very recent phenomenon for us and i think inspiration comes from lahore. But when i did some research i found that butt can only be someone descended from some hindu brahmin which we surely are not since we are historically uneducated agricultural folks, moreover a lot of our family members look "afghan" not pakistani pashtun type. In europe I am always identified as afghan, turk or kurd. I have never come across a hindu who would look like me or my relatives. We cannot be related to them else we would look like them.

I didn't say Chinese eyes...I said smaller eyes like the Baltis !

Ahhh foOk it.....I've just put my Profile Picture up...you tell me what the hell am I ?

As i repeat,The Kashmiri Pandit,i know are all very very fair.

They could also be very fair,but as with Hindu castes,they are never super fair,or that pale kinda fair.

I'd say I'm Olive !

 

[bronxbull]

What were the usual marriageable castes?

Akbar married a rajput princess,and i guess his fellow mughals would have married someone of their social status.

basically they cant marry brahmins/rajputs.

Others.

I didn't say Chinese eyes...I said smaller eyes like the Baltis !

Ahhh foOk it.....I've just put my Profile Picture up...you tell me what the hell am I ?

I'd say I'm Olive !

I saw your pic,you can be a Butt.

But if your grandpa has records,then who am i to certify.

 

[Armstrong]

I saw your pic,you can be a Butt.

But if your grandpa has records,then who am i to certify.

I didn't understand what you just said !

 

[bronxbull]

I just said,your grandpa knows better.

 

[Roybot]

I didn't say Chinese eyes...I said smaller eyes like the Baltis !

Ahhh foOk it.....I've just put my Profile Picture up...you tell me what the hell am I ?



I'd say I'm Olive !

You look central asian, almost like a Hazara. How old are you btw I thought u were atleast mid 20's going by the way you talk.

 

[bronxbull]

He is 22,i think.