India's 197 Copter Deal Suspended, Indefinitely.

[Foo_Fighter]

Why are you bringing Apaches into this mate? Apples and oranges.

People need to chill out and stop connecting unconnected dots.

Oh it was just a concern ... not a statement. The way things are moving I am sure it's a distinct possibility.

 

[Abingdonboy]

whatis the limit of indefinite?

Forever it seems in this case. Re-tendering to induction will take 5 years from the date fresh RFIs are sent out. The most annoying thing is this deal was in the final stages so if the process has to go again it will have to start a fresh.

This has been a reprieve for the HAL LUH. Now the full requirment for 300+ will be HAL LUHs for sure. Hopes for a foreign LUH for the IA and IAF are all but over now.

Oh it was just a concern ... not a statement. The way things are moving I am sure it's a distinct possibility.

No way mate. Like I said apples and oranges- Apache and Chinook deal wi be signed in Q1-2 2013.

 

[dbc]

Mate this 197 deal cancellation has NOTHING to do with bribes. NO ONE has accused anyone of this. The whole issue is performance or lack there of during field trails.

That's incorrect the Italians have evidence that implicates an Indian Army Major who offered to be more forgiving of non conformance to ASQR during evaluation trails for the 197 LU helicopter deal and guaranteed selection for a small fee of 0.5% of the total deal amount.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Particularly, you are right 1st 3 reasons are enough to scrap the deal. But come here buddy & visit here sometime, you will find how much budget cut is facing by militry. Now they need to priotrised there needs while most of our equipment are outdated.
So 4th factor is too much reasonable as much as other ones. But fans like us, are unable to understand that & underestimate that.

The cut in question is <$2Bn (for which only 50% is coming out of the capital acquisitions budget) or <3% of the ENTIRE Indian defence budget for 2012-13. The cut is only for the current FY the cut will not be present in the defence budget of 2013-14 so budgetary issues are a very short term situation. And the cut doesn't put any deal at risk only deals the signing of a few deals for a few weeks.

That's incorrect the Italians have evidence that implicates an Indian Army Major who offered to be more forgiving of non conformance to ASQR during evaluation trails for the 197 LU helicopter deal and guaranteed selection for a small fee of 0.5% of the total deal amount.

Found to be BS. No Indian military or civilian for that matter said anything like that pure slander.

 

[ANPP]

And then we will be submitted in buying JF-17's... wishful thinking can continue from both the ends (let's keep it civil please)...

On topic... apparently 40% of the Army aviation required replacements and this will not help surely. I hope apache's don't meet the same fate.

No, Apache will come India by scheduled. In last decades IA was modernizing their pivot corps & its sub-arms, but now as you can see they suddenly changed their concern completely towards strike corps............don't know the reason but our pivot corps also wants money & they are much bigger bad shape compare to strike corps.

 

[ANPP]

The cut in question is <$2Bn (for which only 50% is coming out of the capital acquisitions budget) or <3% of the ENTIRE Indian defence budget for 2012-13. The cut is only for the current FY the cut will not be present in the defence budget of 2013-14 so budgetary issues are a very short term situation. And the cut doesn't put any deal at risk only deals the signing of a few deals for a few weeks.


Found to be BS. No Indian military or civilian for that matter said anything like that pure slander.

No I am not just talking about this year, but also past few years as well as near future (even budget will grow by some extend). This money is very low, especially you can see last few year tenders & their quantity.
They demand too much money, so MoD has few option either induct them in limited # per year or scrap few tenders so that money/man can be save for versatile projects. They are going for 2nd option & scraping all non/less essential projects. You will see in near future few project either will be scraped/suspeded for indefinite time/face enormous delay.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Ok I am convinced.

 

[dbc]

Found to be BS. No Indian military or civilian for that matter said anything like that pure slander.

True India dismissed it after a casual diplomatic enquiry since the Italians refused to share the evidence with India for the fear of jeopardizing an ongoing investigation. Remains to be seen if there is any substance to the Italian discovery but the 197 LU helicopter deal has been poisoned by the VVIP helicopter scandal.

 

[Archie]

I think Now ALH Dhruv/RUDRA will get more orders than the 275 initially planned

 

[Abingdonboy]

No I am not just talking about this year, but also past few years as well as near future (even budget will grow by some extend). This money is very low, especially you can see last few year tenders & their quantity.
They demand too much money, so MoD has few option either induct them in limited # per year or scrap few tenders so that money/man can be save for versatile projects. They are going for 2nd option & scraping all non/less essential projects. You will see in near future few project either will be scraped/suspeded for indefinite time/face enormous delay.

This simply isn't true. What other major deals have been scrapped for lack if funds??


There is a dedicated $100BN captial budget for the next 4-5 years. The defence budget has increased year on year and will do so again for the 2013-14 defence budget. Are you saying the Indian military/MoD are making plans for inductions with no idea how to fund them?

Let me tell you this simply is not true.

True India dismissed it after a casual diplomatic enquiry since the Italians refused to share the evidence with India for the fear of jeopardizing an ongoing investigation. Remains to be seen if there is any substance to the Italian discovery but the 197 LU helicopter deal has been poisoned by the VVIP helicopter scandal.

How has the LUH deal been "poisioned" by the AW-101 deal?? They are from two seperate nations/companies. Where is the correlation?

Even the AW-101 seems to be an internal mess in Italy that has somehow wrongly implicated India.

In a few months the truth will come out.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think Now ALH Dhruv/RUDRA will get more orders than the 275 initially planned

Of course, the number was ways going to be 400++

 

[ANPP]

This simply isn't true. What other major deals have been scrapped for lack if funds??
There is a dedicated $100BN captial budget for the next 4-5 years. The defence budget has increased year on year and will do so again for the 2013-14 defence budget. Are you saying the Indian military/MoD are making plans for inductions with no idea how to fund them?
Let me tell you this simply is not true.

Just wait bro, you will see how many projects will face extreme delay.
Only RAFALE want ~20 billion$, in which more than 40% will spent next 5 years. Now much more versatile deals like low altitude defence system, attack helis+++++ are fine examples fow which 100B$ is And dont forget other deals previous deals on which delivery is still on.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think Now ALH Dhruv/RUDRA will get more orders than the 275 initially planned

That is my guess too. While the Cheetah/Cheetal/Lancer production line will be run for a while longer. Till the LUH gets firmed up.
Lets see.

 

[anant_s]

Good news for Pakistan..
Hopefully Rafale will meet the same fate

Sirji kyon jale par namak daal rahe ho

 

[Koovie]

Good news for Pakistan..
Hopefully Rafale will meet the same fate

No, Rafale deal has been done under the close eyes of the MOD. The whole world knows now that we always find it out if something is stinky in a deal. The French are certainly not stupid enough to try to bribe a high ranking official in a 15 billion USD deal.

Concerning the light helos, this will be a chance to take an indigenous option. The Dhruv has been a great success and production is going on in a high pace. The proposed LUH is just a lighter version AFAIK.