Indian Wipro is going to buy an american company

[jaunty]

Now I have seen it all. Who would have thought that we'd have an American Aurangzeb here

 

[jbond197]

Now I have seen it all. Who would have thought that we'd have an American Aurangzeb here

I was actually surprised people were taking him to be anything other than a Pakistani!!

All I can say for him, all the $hit he is talking is out of desperation!!

I also do not support H1 B fraudulent activities but I don't understand what is wrong in Indian company investing in American soil. They open a shop and may be they are gonna employ Indians only but people need to understand for each job created in America there are 6 other jobs created in other fields.

The guy even though working on cheap rates will still use telecommunication, water, electricity, gas. use super stores, take rental cars, rent home, send kids to schools etc etc..

So this non-sense should be dropped that If Indian companies hire Indians in America it is any kind of loss to anyone. Govt craves for FDI be it small or big as anything & everything helps!! This is about business and people will do business the way they will get max ROI out of it.. Deal with it!!

 

[Peshwa]

For people talking about capitalism, the point is true. However, the nonsense about "highly skilled' Indians and 'Indian companies creating American jobs' is a load of bull. The numbers in a recent NASSCOM press release were dissected in another thread to show how the supposed American jobs created were crap.

Here's the basic scenario:

- American Client (AC) needs some work done. They solicit, and get, bids from American Vendor (AV) and Indian Vendor (IV). The IV typically underbids by a substantial amount and gets the contract, since the AC follows capitalism and goes for the lowest bidder.

- Now the IV has two choices: they can get the work done in India, or in the US. The first option is cheaper, but has additional complications. The onshore option is relatively more expensive but affords more flexibility. So how did IV manage to underbid AV when they are both doing the work onshore? It's because the IV will hire almost all H1-B imported workers from India. Those jobs are lost to American workers, but the IV will claim to have 'created' jobs in America, even though the workers are almost all imported from India.

Now people will say that there are labor laws regulating salaries and such, so IV can't really undercut AV by much. To those comments, we can only shake our head sardonically: people can be so naive!

Beating labor laws is the easiest trick in the book. What you pay someone, and what you show on the books, need not be the same. As long as the taxes add up, the government knows jack. The H1-B Indians won't complain because, in exchange for these sacrifices, they get an American visa and onshore American experience, both of which they can leverage to transition to a proper American company. At that point, no one will give damn about their fake degree and fake past experience: the only thing prospective American employers will care about is recent relevant onshore experience.

End result: American jobs lost, Indian workers imported to take those jobs, and all the while Indian companies claim they created jobs in America.

Couple of things....

an H1B is a visa offered to only skilled workers....It has to be supported by a few things such as direct correlation to the kind of education one had ie. Someone who majored in Sceinces cannot simply pick up an H1B for a financial firm unles the firm proves that this persons science degree is related to the finance job the person is applying for.

Secondly, the H1B is offered only if the position cannot be filled by another American.ie. if a case comes to light where an American with identical skills (college degree, grades, experience ) gets overlooked or discriminated against in favor of an international worker, the company can get into a lot of trouble. HR and Lawyers have to prove that such is not the case by showing that the job was advertised in the marketplace for a specific time period before the job was offered to an international.

Lastly, there is a minimum salary that an H1B specific person needs to get in order to even stay in the US. So your point about paying someone below the specified level as a means to get a "better deal" is for lack of better words,...BS.

I really dont understand why people would think that an Indian who has studied in US universities or even worked in the marketplace will knowingly take a paycut on their skills just to work in the US.....Indians in my knowledge are very much on top of their game when it comes to being competitive in the marketplace.

 

[dbc]

I'm looking at the evidence of nearly 30 billion in just defense sales and Obama said 30,000 jobs were created just off the one 10 billion sale of the transport aircraft.

Incorrect, C-17 cost 5.1 B$, C130-J's much less only 1.2 B$ and the P8_I deal is worth 2.1 B$. This does not add up to 30 B$.

I'm looking at the Indian companies investing directly in the US , yes i don't have exact numbers

Let me help, according to USTR, in 2010, US FDI in India was 30 B$ the US received 3 billion in FDI from India the same year.
I'm pretty sure 30 B$ will employ more in India than 3 B$ will in the US. The US imported goods worth 30 B$ (2012 YTD) and services worth 20 B$ (2010) from India. How much employment will 50 B$ create in India? Then there are all the Indians working in the US on H1/L1 visas, many never leave. What about Indian's working for US firms in the middle east? So when you say Indian firms create more employment for Americans than US businesses create for Indians I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Developereo]

Couple of things....

an H1B is a visa offered to only skilled workers....It has to be supported by a few things such as direct correlation to the kind of education one had ie. Someone who majored in Sceinces cannot simply pick up an H1B for a financial firm unles the firm proves that this persons science degree is related to the finance job the person is applying for.

Overstated. A vast majority of IT jobs can be done by run of the mill coders. Domain specific skills are either not needed, or fake credentials/experience can be bought for a few hundred rupees. Worst case, the Indian company back home can put the employee in a domain-related in-house project to show recent experience. The 'experience' actually consists of sitting on the bench reading books, or doing irrelevant crap work.

Secondly, the H1B is offered only if the position cannot be filled by another American.ie. if a case comes to light where an American with identical skills (college degree, grades, experience ) gets overlooked or discriminated against in favor of an international worker, the company can get into a lot of trouble. HR and Lawyers have to prove that such is not the case by showing that the job was advertised in the marketplace for a specific time period before the job was offered to an international.

Beating the EAD requirements is a ridiculously simple trick that even a beginner migration lawyer will know, and the firms hiring H1-B use specialist lawyers who can get an EAD in their sleep.

Lastly, there is a minimum salary that an H1B specific person needs to get in order to even stay in the US. So your point about paying someone below the specified level as a means to get a "better deal" is for lack of better words,...BS.

I already explained how the system is beaten.
- Company is expected to pay salary A/year
- Instead they pay salary B (< A)/year
- Both the company and the employee chip in to pay taxes showing salary A/year
- As far as the govt. is concerned, the employee is getting A/year, but he is actually getting B (< A)/year.

As I explained, the H1-B employee goes along because he gets an American visa and onshore experience, both of which can be leveraged to transition to a proper American company. Then another Indian takes his place in the H1-B pipeline and the game repeats.

I really dont understand why people would think that an Indian who has studied in US universities or even worked in the marketplace will knowingly take a paycut on their skills just to work in the US.....

As far as I am concerned, Indians who study in the US are 'local Americans'; they don't go the H1-B route. I am talking about the H1-B fraud. The H1-B charade affects US-educated Indians, and Indian-Americans, just as much as it affects other locals.

Now, I am not saying that every H1-B out there is fraudulent, but the USCIS report shows 27% fraud rate. Other numbers go as high as 36%. And this is just what is found; the real numbers are likely higher given the stakes involved (eventual US green card).

Indians in my knowledge are very much on top of their game when it comes to being competitive in the marketplace.

Indians are not exceptional; they fall into the same Bell curve of ability as everyone else. It's just that the Indians have set up a fantastic support network and a full migration pipeline to take advantage of the skilled labor loopholes.

 

[Viper0011.]

Yeah and I am aware of that too and that's why there is a process of shortlisting of resumes. When I do take some one I make sure i pick the correct resume and ask the right questions because i am the one who has to get the work done. Btw I came across quite a few Bangladeshi, Pakistani and from other countries claiming something that they know zilch about. So their resume ends up where they belong i.e. trash bin.

Btw, I have seen this phenomenon among Americans as well though they generally don't go to the level of 24 year old claiming to be 7 years experienced in something. Only fools recruit cases like the one you mentioned.

Here we go again. CLASSIC example of de-credentializing or clouding the point. You converted the whole discussion from Indian focus to Bangladesh and Pakistan. The ratio of Indian workers to any other nationality is about 4:1 (including locals). So due to that, the issue is with hundreds of thousands of Indian workers who lie on their resumes. I see it on daily basis when we open up reqs. There are good workers too. No doubt about it. But the trend is 2 good people coupled with 4 junior or average or even below average. I'll give you guys the national spirit points that you take care of your own and support the ones that don't know what they are talking about. BUT, that's still illegal as that job belongs to a qualified American (AND TRUST ME, there are a lot of them out there).
Last....these 'hiring practices to filter out the below average ones'.... these sound great in the post. In reality...they don't exist. There is now a layer of HR - Head Hunting companies in between the American business and the talent. The head hunters are also Indian and they suppress all other resumes or send like 9 Indian resumes and 2 Average American resumes. The American resumes don't have lie written on it so it seems as the 9 Indian guys are superstars.

We've seen these over and over again. Same thing with the internal HR. The Indian employees favor Indians vs. the Americans or even others. That's just the reality but its against the law. In one case, one of the HR managers I worked with, he didn't send me a local resume for a guy out of MIT but sent me many resumes with people from India.

When I got his boss involved and asked for ALL resumes to be sent to me, I got to see the resume with a master from MIT. When I asked the HR manager (who was from India), that why did he not send me that resume as MIT was the top line school in the world. His response was, well MIT is what you consider a top school. But in India, all of their schools are better than that. I looked at him and all I could say is REALLY DUDE?

So here you have it. The laws needs to be tightened up and additional verification processes need to be put in so the Americans CAN get jobs. In fact, a law should be passed that if a resume has lies on it for experience, that person's H1B should be revoked. Or, there should be severe penalties for doing so as it's fraud. Similarly, there should be processes to review American labor hiring and companies who don't do it, should be fined. These are American jobs and should go to the Americans.
While I am saying this, I'd also say that there was a legitimate need for outsourcing. That has been met. So this post is not against 'India' or 'Indians'. It is just the fact. The privilege to work and live in the US has been abused like crazy and a job mafia has taken birth out of it. THAT should never be allowed in any country.