Indian Sukhoi Su-30MKI And Russian Su-35 nearly on par: Indian Aviation Expert

[PARIKRAMA]

I read in some other forum where J11D is claimed to be what is a barebone Su35 and now with 24 Su35's and engines, the plan is to upgrade the capabilities to actual Su35's and in some parameters surpass them with homegrown technology.

In terms of MKI, i think unless we see the details of Su30 MKI Super Sukhoi program details, the major difference lies on the single pilot sensor fusion and automated information pooling provided for maximum information awareness of Su35 which is rumored to be covered mostly in the upgrade deep MLU package for MKI.

Which of course means WSO will have a better information pool available and 2 pilots system does work lot better for us.

Interestingly single pilot fuel load radars etc today makes Su35 above MKI by a small margin but post Super program unless Su35 gets lot more PAKFA tech, it will lose its sheen by a similar margin of what advantage it holds over MKI as of today.

I think Defense news fellows are trying to play onm India China feelings of readers for this report. I am sure even chinese folks here will agree 24 numbers dont provide them a much bigger advantage as they already have a good number difference. What would be interesting is how development plan of J11D fans out now when they can have a direct J11D vs Su35 in performance done in homegrown tests and cover that distance. by developing it further.

 

[My-Analogous]

No Mention of this So Called " Indian Aviation Expert "

 

[Mirza Jatt]

as of now we dont need su-35. simple as that.

 

[Jat Boy]

its vIrtually the same bloody plane...


ITS LIKE COMPARING A BLOCK 52 F16 OF PAF versis a F16 BLOCK 60 OF UAE.

su30mki or SU35 both are kick *** FLANKERS

 

[Mrc]

Same expert also said "tejas will fly...u just have to wait for the time"

 

[Super Commando Dhruva]

When did Indian become expert in aviation? Can you trust an Indian expertise regards to aviation?

AND when did you Guys become an aviation Expert, you "COPY CATs" Ctrl "C" & Ctrl "V " that's it, Now take that!

May I know reason why you guys are going for SU 35 ? after all you guys have "J" Family (That's because your JUNKS does not satisfy Chines Air force demand. ) you may not like it but its true.

Indian sukhoi 30s are even better than the sukhoi 95s which russians have not planned yet- true story-

SU MKI may be superior to SU 95s, but its inferior to J 10. (That's what you guys always say LOL...)

 

[The-king]

Su-30MKI fly by wire system is a big mess nearly all the crashes happens because of faulty maintenance, it requires lot of time and parts to maintain it even after few hours of flying.

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems
The SU-30MKIs constantly break down
by THOMAS NEWDICK

In the past decade, the Indian Air Force has bought hundreds of Su-30MKI fighter jets from Russia. Some of Moscow’s most advanced export fighters, the warplanes should have helped New Delhi strengthen its military.

But it turns out, the twin-engine jets have failure-prone motors. Their AL-31FP engines break down with alarming frequency.

In March, Indian defense minister Manohar Parrikar revealed the propulsion problems.

There have been no fewer than 69 investigations involving engine failures since 2012, according to Parrikar. Between January 2013 and December 2014 alone, the Indian Air Force recorded 35 technical problems with the turbofans.

A shortfall in India’s Sukhoi fleet is a big deal. Especially at a time when India’s fighter squadrons are shrinking, and plans to induct the French Rafale fighter have stalled.

The Su-30MKI remains the pride of the Indian Air Force. Russia’s Irkut Corporation initially supplied the jets, and today Hindustan Aeronautics Limited produces them under license.

It was on New Delhi’s behest that Russia revamped the Cold War-era Su-27 into this modern “superfighter,” with thrust-vectoring engines, canard foreplanes, a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, electronically scanned radar and air-to-ground weapons.

India had to wait until 2002 before it started to receive the Su-30MKI in the form it had originally requested. The Air Force is set to receive 272 Su-30MKIs.

India also bought 18 austere Su-30K fighters without the multi-role capabilities or thrust-vectoring engines.

Of the Su-30MKIs, Russia has delivered 50. HAL is producing the rest at its Nasik facility, where aircraft continue to roll off the line. With around 15 to 20 aircraft handed over every year, the current orders are set to finish around 2019 or 2020.

So what exactly is wrong with the engines? We have a pretty good idea.

Parrikar attributed the failures to faulty bearings that contaminated the plane’s oil supply. It seems that metal fatigue led to tiny pieces of metal shearing off the friction-reducing bearings, which then entered the oil system.

This accounted for 33 of 69 engine failures.

Another 11 failures were the result of engine vibrations, while eight more arose from a lack of pressure in that same lubricating oil. New Delhi has not revealed the cause for the remaining 17 incidents.

The Air Force responded by taking the issue up with NPO Saturn, the Russian manufacturer. According to Parrikar, the company has come up with nine different modifications to help solve the problems.

India has already incorporated these “fixes” into 25 engines built at its plant in Koraput. In the future, the engines should benefit from an improved lubrication system, superior-quality oil and bearings that are a better fit.

However, a more general worry for the Air Force is the poor serviceability of the Su-30MKI fleet — meaning the number of aircraft actually available for operations on a daily basis.

Based on figures given by Parrikar, only 110 Su-30MKIs are “operationally available.” From a total of more than 200 aircraft that Irkut and HAL had delivered by February 2015, that means 56 percent are ready at any given time.

India’s Su-30MKI fleet has suffered five crashes since 2009.

To be sure, it’s not a great record, but it’s also not notably bad — especially when compared with the attrition rates of the Indian Air Force’s older fighters. It’s unclear what role, if any, the engine problems played in these accidents.

What’s perhaps more significant is the fact that engine deficiencies have bugged the Flanker from the start.

“The initial batch of 18 Su-30Ks and 10 Su-30MKIs were grounded as a result of engine issues, that were subsequently put down to design problems,” Indian defense blogger Shiv Aroor wrote.
At the end of last year, the Air Force’s fighter strength dipped to just 25 squadrons — its lowest in recent history. India has an officially sanctioned requirement for 42 fighter squadrons, and maintained 32 until recently.

As New Delhi withdraws its older MiG-21s and MiG-27s from service, the total number could fall to just 11 squadrons by 2024.

Casting an eye toward Pakistan and China, a parliamentary committee in New Delhi has argued that 45 fighter squadrons are the minimum India needs to cope with the demands of a “two-front collusive threat.”

Either way, that means India needs a lot of Su-30MKIs — and the jets have to work.

India wouldn’t have to worry as much about its Su-30MKI fleet if it managed to import fighters from elsewhere. For years, New Delhi has unsuccessfully tried to nail down a program to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France.

Of these, Dassault Aviation would supply 18, while HAL would build the remainder. But despite announcements from both the French manufacturer and India, the deal is nowhere close to turning into reality.

As far as Moscow is concerned, the protracted Rafale deal has presented Russia with an opportunity to try and elbow the French out of the way, and sell yet more Su-30MKIs to India.
Indian officials have insisted that the Rafale is the only solution to its near-term fighter needs. But that changed at the turn of the year when Parrikar told reporters that an additional Su-30 buy could provide a solution — if negotiations with Paris were to terminally collapse.

The statement came as a surprise to the Air Force, which has long been wed to the Rafale, which it presents as the tailor-made solution to its fighter needs. On this occasion, the Air Force countered that the Su-30MKI and Rafale programs were indivisible, and fulfilled two different requirements.

But if the Sukhoi’s engine problems aren’t fixed soon, then this option might become less attractive. Perhaps as an insurance policy, Russia is now pushing India to buy its Su-35 — a more advanced, single-seat fighter based on the same Flanker airframe.

Regardless of what happens, the Russian-designed jet will have a place in the inventory for some time to come, despite its problems. There simply are lots of Su-30MKIs on order. India is also keen to pursue an upgrade for the jet, known as the Super 30.

This will add a new computer system and upgraded mission avionics, including an advanced active electronically-scanned array radar. Other changes will include revised countermeasure systems and “stealth” coatings to reduce radar signature.

New weapons will include the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile.

The 80-kilometer-range Astra was first successfully flight-tested from a Su-30MKI in May last year and destroyed a target drone this month. It was a good bit of PR for the Indian jet at a time when it needed it the most.
While the Astra will eventually arm most Indian fighters, one other missile will likely remain the sole preserve of the Su-30MKI. The Sukhoi is currently the only Indian Air Force fighter able to lift the heavyweight Brahmos-A, an Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile.

But let’s back up for a second. Why did Parrikar mention the Su-30MKI as a possible replacement for the Rafale if the negotiations collapse? He knows the Russian fighters have loads of problems — as does everyone else. So that doesn’t make any sense.

Unless … you want to scare India’s politicians enough to finally close the deal on the Rafale.

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems — War Is Boring — Medium

 

[HariPrasad]

Su-30MKI fly by wire system is a big mess nearly all the crashes happens because of faulty maintenance, it requires lot of time and parts to maintain it even after few hours of flying.

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems
The SU-30MKIs constantly break down
by THOMAS NEWDICK

In the past decade, the Indian Air Force has bought hundreds of Su-30MKI fighter jets from Russia. Some of Moscow’s most advanced export fighters, the warplanes should have helped New Delhi strengthen its military.

But it turns out, the twin-engine jets have failure-prone motors. Their AL-31FP engines break down with alarming frequency.

In March, Indian defense minister Manohar Parrikar revealed the propulsion problems.

There have been no fewer than 69 investigations involving engine failures since 2012, according to Parrikar. Between January 2013 and December 2014 alone, the Indian Air Force recorded 35 technical problems with the turbofans.

A shortfall in India’s Sukhoi fleet is a big deal. Especially at a time when India’s fighter squadrons are shrinking, and plans to induct the French Rafale fighter have stalled.

The Su-30MKI remains the pride of the Indian Air Force. Russia’s Irkut Corporation initially supplied the jets, and today Hindustan Aeronautics Limited produces them under license.

It was on New Delhi’s behest that Russia revamped the Cold War-era Su-27 into this modern “superfighter,” with thrust-vectoring engines, canard foreplanes, a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, electronically scanned radar and air-to-ground weapons.

India had to wait until 2002 before it started to receive the Su-30MKI in the form it had originally requested. The Air Force is set to receive 272 Su-30MKIs.

India also bought 18 austere Su-30K fighters without the multi-role capabilities or thrust-vectoring engines.

Of the Su-30MKIs, Russia has delivered 50. HAL is producing the rest at its Nasik facility, where aircraft continue to roll off the line. With around 15 to 20 aircraft handed over every year, the current orders are set to finish around 2019 or 2020.

So what exactly is wrong with the engines? We have a pretty good idea.

Parrikar attributed the failures to faulty bearings that contaminated the plane’s oil supply. It seems that metal fatigue led to tiny pieces of metal shearing off the friction-reducing bearings, which then entered the oil system.

This accounted for 33 of 69 engine failures.

Another 11 failures were the result of engine vibrations, while eight more arose from a lack of pressure in that same lubricating oil. New Delhi has not revealed the cause for the remaining 17 incidents.

The Air Force responded by taking the issue up with NPO Saturn, the Russian manufacturer. According to Parrikar, the company has come up with nine different modifications to help solve the problems.

India has already incorporated these “fixes” into 25 engines built at its plant in Koraput. In the future, the engines should benefit from an improved lubrication system, superior-quality oil and bearings that are a better fit.

However, a more general worry for the Air Force is the poor serviceability of the Su-30MKI fleet — meaning the number of aircraft actually available for operations on a daily basis.

Based on figures given by Parrikar, only 110 Su-30MKIs are “operationally available.” From a total of more than 200 aircraft that Irkut and HAL had delivered by February 2015, that means 56 percent are ready at any given time.

India’s Su-30MKI fleet has suffered five crashes since 2009.

To be sure, it’s not a great record, but it’s also not notably bad — especially when compared with the attrition rates of the Indian Air Force’s older fighters. It’s unclear what role, if any, the engine problems played in these accidents.

What’s perhaps more significant is the fact that engine deficiencies have bugged the Flanker from the start.

“The initial batch of 18 Su-30Ks and 10 Su-30MKIs were grounded as a result of engine issues, that were subsequently put down to design problems,” Indian defense blogger Shiv Aroor wrote.
At the end of last year, the Air Force’s fighter strength dipped to just 25 squadrons — its lowest in recent history. India has an officially sanctioned requirement for 42 fighter squadrons, and maintained 32 until recently.

As New Delhi withdraws its older MiG-21s and MiG-27s from service, the total number could fall to just 11 squadrons by 2024.

Casting an eye toward Pakistan and China, a parliamentary committee in New Delhi has argued that 45 fighter squadrons are the minimum India needs to cope with the demands of a “two-front collusive threat.”

Either way, that means India needs a lot of Su-30MKIs — and the jets have to work.

India wouldn’t have to worry as much about its Su-30MKI fleet if it managed to import fighters from elsewhere. For years, New Delhi has unsuccessfully tried to nail down a program to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France.

Of these, Dassault Aviation would supply 18, while HAL would build the remainder. But despite announcements from both the French manufacturer and India, the deal is nowhere close to turning into reality.

As far as Moscow is concerned, the protracted Rafale deal has presented Russia with an opportunity to try and elbow the French out of the way, and sell yet more Su-30MKIs to India.
Indian officials have insisted that the Rafale is the only solution to its near-term fighter needs. But that changed at the turn of the year when Parrikar told reporters that an additional Su-30 buy could provide a solution — if negotiations with Paris were to terminally collapse.

The statement came as a surprise to the Air Force, which has long been wed to the Rafale, which it presents as the tailor-made solution to its fighter needs. On this occasion, the Air Force countered that the Su-30MKI and Rafale programs were indivisible, and fulfilled two different requirements.

But if the Sukhoi’s engine problems aren’t fixed soon, then this option might become less attractive. Perhaps as an insurance policy, Russia is now pushing India to buy its Su-35 — a more advanced, single-seat fighter based on the same Flanker airframe.

Regardless of what happens, the Russian-designed jet will have a place in the inventory for some time to come, despite its problems. There simply are lots of Su-30MKIs on order. India is also keen to pursue an upgrade for the jet, known as the Super 30.

This will add a new computer system and upgraded mission avionics, including an advanced active electronically-scanned array radar. Other changes will include revised countermeasure systems and “stealth” coatings to reduce radar signature.

New weapons will include the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile.

The 80-kilometer-range Astra was first successfully flight-tested from a Su-30MKI in May last year and destroyed a target drone this month. It was a good bit of PR for the Indian jet at a time when it needed it the most.
While the Astra will eventually arm most Indian fighters, one other missile will likely remain the sole preserve of the Su-30MKI. The Sukhoi is currently the only Indian Air Force fighter able to lift the heavyweight Brahmos-A, an Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile.

But let’s back up for a second. Why did Parrikar mention the Su-30MKI as a possible replacement for the Rafale if the negotiations collapse? He knows the Russian fighters have loads of problems — as does everyone else. So that doesn’t make any sense.

Unless … you want to scare India’s politicians enough to finally close the deal on the Rafale.

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems — War Is Boring — Medium

And decades old engines of Same manufacturer makes Pakistani and chinese planes super duper with same engines and alien DSI technology.

 

[The-king]

And decades old engines of Same manufacturer makes Pakistani and chinese planes super duper with same engines and alien DSI technology.

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

 

[Pulsar]

Indian sukhoi 30s are even better than the sukhoi 95s which russians have not planned yet- true story-

 

[The-king]

This is not actually a typical VS thread because both these fighters are operated by friendly countries. So the probability of these 2 fighting against each other is Zero. This is just to see how these 2 compares with each other and also, gives an idea of what the Super-Sukhoi-30MKI might derive out of the Su-35S platform.

Su-35S(formerly Su-35BM) is the most recent and the most advanced of the Su-27 family. It has a all-metal structure, but unlike other Su-27 family fighters, it's comprised of titanium composites. As a result its airframe life is higher than the others. Its avionics is one of the best, and its radar is the best in the world in range. How does it compare with its cousin the successful Su-30MKI family comprising of Su-30MKI, Su-30MKM and Su-30MKA?

Below are the similarities between Su-30MKI and Su-35S:
12 Hard Points
8000kgs external ordinance
G-limit 9
Same Air-Air and Air-Ground weapons package
Has Thrust Vectoring
Can house external jammers and all varieties of pods.
Has inflight re-fueling
etc.. etc..


Differences:
Su-30MKI-
Maximum internal fuel - 9,640kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling) - 3000kms
Max ceiling - 17.3km
Max Speed - Mach 1.9
Canards - Yes
Crew - 2
Max Afterburner Thrust - 12500kgf, Emergency Thrust - 12800kgf
External Fuel Tanks - No
Composites - Not in significant quantity.
Empty Weight - unknown. Estimated to be around 18400kgs.
Airframe life - 3,000hrs or 15 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - No
RCS - unofficial estimate 11.5m2
Airbrake - Yes
Supercruise- No


Su-35S-
Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes

Radar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

 

[untitled]

Grapes are sour bro..


Another J-10 Crashes and again China tries to hide
Chinese Defence community is reporting crash of another J-10A fighter aircraft belonging to PLAAF. According to available news, PLAAF J-10A crashed on Nov. 19 in Anji County of Zhejiang Province in China. the pilot, Lu Yaogui, ejected but later died from injuries.this is the second J-10A crash this...

Yes grapes are indeed sour for the Indian aviation expert. Since he saw that China is buying Su 35 and India is not. Hence he deduced MKI is better than Su 35

 

[jung41]

Yes grapes are indeed sour for the Indian aviation expert. Since he saw that China is buying Su 35 and India is not. Hence he deduced MKI is better than Su 35

hahahahaha really we can buy su35 any time but those who cant really feel grapes are sour

 

[The-king]

Crash No.1: 30 April 2009

The first ever Su-30MKI crashes in the Pokhran region, Rajasthan. The IAF’s Court of Inquiry establishes Wing Commander Vishwas Munje mistakenly switched off the warplane’s fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.2: 30 November 2009

Sukhoi crashes near Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, after a fire warning. An IAF investigation attributes it to accidental ingestion of a foreign object in the engine intake.

Crash No.3: 13 December 2011

Aircraft crashes 20 km from Pune. IAF says the crash is due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.4: 19 February 2013

Aircraft’s right wing explodes over Pokhran, shortly after completing a training mission.

Crash No.5: 14 October 2013

Fly-by-wire system malfunctions yet again and the Sukhoi goes down near Pune. Russian experts blame pilot error but the IAF says the Court of Inquiry is yet to pinpoint exact reason.

Crash No.6: 19 May 2015

Su-30MKI flying from Tezpur in Assam develops a technical snag and the pilot is forced to abandon the aircraft. Cause is yet to be established.

Now that you have a good idea of what exactly happened in those six crashes, let’s look at the possible reasons why jet fighters crash in India.
Possible reason : Missing trainers

According to figures released by the Ministry of Defence in March 2013, the IAF was losing the equivalent of one fighter squadron (approximately 18 fighters) in accidents every two years. This was primarily because of the lack of adequate number of trainers.

Rookie fighter pilots begin on basic trainers, then move on to intermediate jet trainers (IJTs) before finally graduating to advanced jet trainers (AJTs). These three stages are critical elements of fighter pilot training and any shortcuts will certainly lead to disaster.

But what was happening was that in the absence of an AJT, rookie pilots were moving straight from the IJT to frontline warplanes such as the MiG-21. The upshot – young pilots died at an alarming rate.

With the induction of the Swiss Pilatus basic trainer and Hawk AJT from Britain, the crashes have come down – but not stopped.

Possible reason: Shoddy maintenance

India is notorious for its ‘chalta hai’ or ‘it’ll be alright’ attitude. In this backdrop, shoddy maintenance could well be a factor. Although the IAF is known for its high standards, those standards are largely of its pilots; maintenance crews may not share that quality. Of late, there have been a number of incidents reported widely in the media about IAF ground crew involved in all sorts of serious crimes. The IAF should look at establishing an elite division of ground crews to service its high-end aircraft.

Possible reason: Depleted air force

The IAF’s fleet strength is currently down to 34 squadrons or around 600 warplanes. The sanctioned number is 42 squadrons. In a country as vast as India, with multiple threats, such depletion in fighter aircraft means fewer aircraft have to perform more missions to get the same job done. It also means less down time in maintenance hangars. This is where India quickly needs to induct more locally built Tejas interceptors and more locally assembled Su-30s.

 

[Abingdonboy]

How does this related to prove Indian is expert in aviation? You want me dig up more humiliating crashed rate of IAF?

I would love for you to provide some emprical data to support this "humiliating" claim. And I'm not asking for opnions or analysis from the media, I'm asking for irrefutable statistics- the crash rate per 10,000 hours (as is the international matrix for such analysis).

+ if you could provide the same rate for the PLAAF that would be much appreciated also

Crash No.1: 30 April 2009

The first ever Su-30MKI crashes in the Pokhran region, Rajasthan. The IAF’s Court of Inquiry establishes Wing Commander Vishwas Munje mistakenly switched off the warplane’s fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.2: 30 November 2009

Sukhoi crashes near Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, after a fire warning. An IAF investigation attributes it to accidental ingestion of a foreign object in the engine intake.

Crash No.3: 13 December 2011

Aircraft crashes 20 km from Pune. IAF says the crash is due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.4: 19 February 2013

Aircraft’s right wing explodes over Pokhran, shortly after completing a training mission.

Crash No.5: 14 October 2013

Fly-by-wire system malfunctions yet again and the Sukhoi goes down near Pune. Russian experts blame pilot error but the IAF says the Court of Inquiry is yet to pinpoint exact reason.

Crash No.6: 19 May 2015

Su-30MKI flying from Tezpur in Assam develops a technical snag and the pilot is forced to abandon the aircraft. Cause is yet to be established.

Now that you have a good idea of what exactly happened in those six crashes, let’s look at the possible reasons why jet fighters crash in India.
Possible reason : Missing trainers

According to figures released by the Ministry of Defence in March 2013, the IAF was losing the equivalent of one fighter squadron (approximately 18 fighters) in accidents every two years. This was primarily because of the lack of adequate number of trainers.

Rookie fighter pilots begin on basic trainers, then move on to intermediate jet trainers (IJTs) before finally graduating to advanced jet trainers (AJTs). These three stages are critical elements of fighter pilot training and any shortcuts will certainly lead to disaster.

But what was happening was that in the absence of an AJT, rookie pilots were moving straight from the IJT to frontline warplanes such as the MiG-21. The upshot – young pilots died at an alarming rate.

With the induction of the Swiss Pilatus basic trainer and Hawk AJT from Britain, the crashes have come down – but not stopped.

Possible reason: Shoddy maintenance

India is notorious for its ‘chalta hai’ or ‘it’ll be alright’ attitude. In this backdrop, shoddy maintenance could well be a factor. Although the IAF is known for its high standards, those standards are largely of its pilots; maintenance crews may not share that quality. Of late, there have been a number of incidents reported widely in the media about IAF ground crew involved in all sorts of serious crimes. The IAF should look at establishing an elite division of ground crews to service its high-end aircraft.

Possible reason: Depleted air force

The IAF’s fleet strength is currently down to 34 squadrons or around 600 warplanes. The sanctioned number is 42 squadrons. In a country as vast as India, with multiple threats, such depletion in fighter aircraft means fewer aircraft have to perform more missions to get the same job done. It also means less down time in maintenance hangars. This is where India quickly needs to induct more locally built Tejas interceptors and more locally assembled Su-30s.

What's your point?

The Indian media are sensationlist losers seeking higher TRPs and not the truth? Then point well made.

Yes grapes are indeed sour for the Indian aviation expert. Since he saw that China is buying Su 35 and India is not. Hence he deduced MKI is better than Su 35

The IAF could have bought Su-35s anytime in the past decade but chose not to because they are more than satisfied with the MKI for themselves. I don't see how "sour grapes" can play a factor, India has lost nothing.

When did Indian become expert in aviation? Can you trust an Indian expertise regards to aviation?

By this logic can you trust Chinese expertise in aviation?