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Indian Submarine Acquisitions (Conventional)

RIA Novosti - World - Indian submarine to join navy after delayed refit in Russia

Indian submarine to join navy after delayed refit in Russia
12:09 | 29/ 07/ 2008

ST. PETERSBURG, July 29 (RIA Novosti) - The INS Sindhuvijay diesel-electric submarine will set sail for India on August 5 to rejoin the Indian navy after an extensive overhaul at a shipyard in northern Russia, the company said on Tuesday.

The Project 877EKM Kilo-class submarine had been undergoing a refit at the Zvezdochka shipyard in Severodvinsk since 2005.

The overhaul was delayed for six months due to the unacceptable performance of its new SS-N-27 Club-S cruise missiles. In six consecutive pre-delivery test firings in September - November 2007, the Club missiles failed to find their targets and India refused to accept the delivery until all the problems had been fixed.

The Club-S subsonic cruise missile is designed for launch from a 533 mm torpedo tube, or a vertical launch tube. It has a range of 160 nautical miles (about 220 km). It uses an ARGS-54 active radar seeker and Glonass satellite and inertial guidance.

The new trials were completed in mid-July and were successful.

Sindhuvijay is the 4th Indian navy submarine to have been refitted at the Zvyozdochka shipyard.

The upgrade program also involved a complete overhaul of the submarine, including its hull structure, as well as improved control systems, sonars, electronic warfare systems, and an integrated weapon control system. The upgrades reportedly cost about $80 million.

Russia's Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines have gained a reputation as extremely quiet boats, and have been purchased by China, India, Iran, Poland, Romania and Algeria.
 
The Hindu : Front Page : France offers India partnership to export submarines
“We think India is a good place to develop activity for other countries. We have a lot of countries interested in submarines. Singapore would acquire new submarines in three to five years. Malaysia might ask for a second batch of submarine. Thailand and Indonesia would be interested,” Mr. Poimbeuf said.

Pure marketing ploy for the uninformed. Indonesia can neither afford the cash nor infrastructure upkeep costs to procure any undersea warfare capabilities other than Russian. Same goes for Thailand and the Philippines. Singapore to all extents will either procure 2-4 more Swedish designs or the S80 from interoperability requirements. However Malaysia might be interested in two more Scorpene and Vietnam is in dire need of some sea denial capabiliities in the South China Sea.

The DCNS chief said his company would reply to the request for information (RFI) for the next batch of submarines.

Upcoming RFP in response to RFI will offer the Marlin design with full integration of sensor fit, weapons fit incl. the new Blackshark derived torp (which we've codenamed Whiteshark until a name becomes known:)

The company’s top brass held several sounds of discussions last week with Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sureesh Mehta to discuss technology transfer for the present lot of submarines. “I read in newspapers and assured him that there was no restriction on technology transfer from the French government and we are doing that since the beginning of the contract,” he explained.

That is until the IN begins fitting Israeli sensors into the hull.

Admitting that the building of the first submarine had been delayed, he was, however, optimistic of the six submarines rolling out by the projected date of 2017. “It is a very complex naval system. There is nothing more complex more than a submarine. Besides, for over 15 years there was no activity regarding construction of submarines in India. To restart this activity takes time.”

Possibly the most complex engineering challenge known to man.
 
I think these subs will fit in to the requirement of Indian Navy for second line of subs, what you guys think
Defense Technology International - July 2008
check page 36

and
BMT Defence Services - BMT's design approach - large conventional submarine design Vidar-36

An RFI will be issued and if BMT wishes to respond then they will buy a RFP and the design will be considered from there.

Personally it appears to be a good modular design-but until we see a prototype then I cannot comment. I know for sure RFIs have been issued to DCNS (Marlin), HDW/TKMS (U214), Navantia (S80) and Rubin (Amur) and will proceed along those lines as such. The competition (and the other two in the future) will be between whomever may give the IN a substantial qualitative overmatch v the PN and also reflects the nature of India's geopolitical standing.

All submarine contracts are direct indicators of a country's political 'relationships' simply because subs are such big ticket items and procurement effectively binds the buyer to the vendor (and selling nation) through offsets, weaponry support and maintenance. This is because no nation has in the last thirty years managed to design an acceptable "new design" SSK with no design heritage and most likely never will given the complex engineering challenges involved with the hull, sensors and systems placement. As such new inroads into India are being sought by the French, Germans and British/Americans while the Russians are attempting to hold on. India will become a true regional bluewater naval power in the next 5-10 years with the delivery of 1-2 Akula II, at least six new build T3 SSKs and the ATV SSBN so it would be worthwhile and highly significant for the RAN to build relationships with the IN. As such I'm off to India next year to take up the position of naval liason to monitor undersea warfare developments in the Indian Ocean. We do live in interesting times indeed.
 
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good article:

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/idr/idr080721_1_n.shtml

Smaller but fitter: naval SHORADS push the engagement envelope
By Richard Scott
21 July 2008

In the period after the Second World War it became clear that the anti-aircraft gun lacked the range and accuracy to be effective against the emerging air threat posed by jet-powered combat aircraft and (then rudimentary) stand-off weapons. Attention turned instead to the development of shipborne surface-to-air guided missiles, which could provide protection against high-speed airborne targets.

A first generation of area-defence systems entered service in the 1950s. However, missile size and the volume and weight taken up by associated guidance and control equipment meant these long-range weapons could not easily be fitted to small escorts.

In the mid-1960s the first true point-defence missile systems (PDMSs) entered service. These first-generation systems included the Shorts Seacat (a subsonic command-guided missile widely fitted to UK Royal Navy ships as a replacement for the 40 mm gun) and the US Navy's (USN's) Basic Point Defense Missile System (the progenitor of the NATO SeaSparrow Missile System). The PDMS subsequently became a key part of the concept of layered defence.

By the early 1970s, the air threat had advanced further. Although the Soviet Navy and various Soviet client states had operated the high-flying SS-N-2 'Styx' anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) for some years, it was the introduction to service of new sea-skimming and fast, high-diving ASCMs, which prompted the development of a new genre of shipborne anti-missile PDMSs. These systems were characterised by the use of trainable launchers; radar-controlled guidance (using either semi-active, command-to-line-of-sight or command guidance techniques); and supersonic surface-to-air missiles.

However, these were not without shortcomings. For example, they were limited by the number of available fire-control channels (leaving systems prone to saturation in multi-threat scenarios) and the tracking radars used often found it difficult to detect and track small low-elevation targets given multipathing and the disruptive effects of sea clutter. Also, weight and space requirements complicated ship fitting and precluded installation on ships below frigate size.

These deficiencies - particularly in multiple target scenarios - are now being addressed by a new genre of largely autonomous self-sensing short-range air-defence systems (SHORADS) affording expanded range and engagement envelopes and improved kinematic performance to deal with highly manoeuvrable threats. Some additionally benefit from mid-course guidance updates.

The new SHORADS have been engineered to reduce ship impact in terms of weight, volume, deck footprint and power supply. This enables their installation aboard smaller surface combatants, such as corvettes and fast strike craft, allowing them to receive a credible air-defence capability previously only attainable by ships of destroyer or frigate size.
 
IndianExpress.com :: UP PERISCOPE

UP PERISCOPE
Smita Nair
Posted online: Sunday, August 03, 2008 at 1412 hrs

In one of the yards at Mazagon Dock Ltd in Mumbai, a stealthy project is underway to help the Indian Navy acquire a new edge in its blue-water capabilities. The Sunday Express became the first publication to be allowed past the gates of MDL to chronicle the work of the men and women behind the building of the $3.5 billion Scorpene submarines.

It involves cutting-edge naval defence technology and is considered one of the most potent independent military capabilities India has acquired. But the most striking sight at the East Yard of the Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, where this capability is being used to build the next generation Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy, is the scores of geometrically perfect circles.

They are all over the giant workshop—circular strips of steel with a diameter of 6.2 metres, some are semi-circles waiting to be welded into a circle, finished ones are being pre-heated for more welding, and yet another set of complete circles is being joined to create the rib cage for the sub’s hull.

At first sight it looks almost like any other factory floor. But talk to the men and women behind the ultra secret effort, codenamed ‘Project 75’, and out come stories of extreme grit, technological achievement and a soldier-like dedication aimed at helping the Indian Navy acquire its ambitious blue-water force.

Project 75 is a part of India’s 30-year submarine-building programme that aims at a projected force of 24 vessels. And it is not the first time MDL is building submarines. The public sector ship-builder built two HDW submarines as part of the deal India signed with Germany in the 1980s, with the last vessel being delivered in 1994. But the yard had fallen silent until India signed a $3.5 billion deal with France in late 2005 for six Scorpene submarines. And despite being hit by controversies over the involvement of middlemen, construction of the first sub started in December 2006 and delivery is due in 2012 and thereafter one each every year. However, it is not just the number of years that separates the two projects.

While the first two HDW submarines were built in Germany and 120 MDL workers went there for training to build the rest in Mumbai, this time the number is as minimal as it can get. Three welders have been trained in France and three engineers will be trained in incorporating noise reduction technology, key to a submarine’s ability to operate stealthily in international waters. Besides, the HDW did not have missiles while the Scorpene is considered to be among the best missile-armed subs in the world in its class, if not the best.

“This project means a lot to us as it has changed the mood of the workforce at our submarine-building facility,” says Vice-Admiral S.K.K. Krishnan, Chairman and Managing Director of MDL, admitting that the six-acre yard was “dormant” for a long time after the last HDW was delivered.

Building a sub, he explains, is a bit like building an aircraft. “Only this has a little more risk involved as the machine travels at tremendous pressure levels under water and even if there is a crack the size of a thread in the hull the entire submarine can burst,” he adds.

“It is here that we are learning to stand on our feet and rely on our experience, and once the process becomes continuous then the confidence to build submarines with our own skill will progress naturally. While the design is frozen for the first two with no changes, we will have some flexibility from the third and that is where our real test will begin,” he says.

While some foreign diplomats and defence analysts have expressed fears that the deliveries could be delayed due to suspected delays in transfers of technology, MDL officials shrug them off and say they are confident that the first vessel will sail in 2012. The construction, they said, is presently in the first stage called hull formation and has to go through four other crucial stages before it can be handed over to the navy.

In submarine building, explains Commodore Gopal Bharti, MDL Group General Manager in-charge of the East Yard, “it is the building of the hull that is most critical” and therefore the process of welding steel frames into a capsule, which will eventually house navigation equipment, weaponry, the batteries and space for the crew, forms a significant stage.

“Even if there is a minute error in between the many layers of welding in any part of the hull, we have had it,” pitches in Prakash Goplani, General Manager for Production at the East Yard. “Underwater pressure does not differentiate between trouble spots and water gushing inside can tear the submarine apart.”

It is here that the French put the Indians to their first test. Three senior MDL welders were sent to France to learn the MIG/MAG style of welding so that they could train another 40 back home in the new technology in which a metallic wire is fed through a welding gun and melted in an electric arc. The wire serves the dual purpose of acting as the current-carrying electrode and the welding consumable filler wire.

Having mastered the craft in alien conditions, the trio spent days and nights at the yard transferring that knowledge to their colleagues. “It’s a camaraderie that can’t be found in books when an ageing welder shares his craft with the new blood as they build a submarine,” says Goplani. The team would come from Mumbai’s far-off suburbs as early as 4 or 5 in the morning and often work overtime as they did not want to kill the “excitement and the continuity”.

The first challenge was to build two sub-sections of 6.2-metre diameter for the capsule as a trial. A Scorpene is around 67 metres long and is made in phases where 16 sub-sections comprising 83 circular frames are joined to form the rib cage of the hull. “Only a perfect circle can withstand extreme pressure conditions in deep waters,” says Bharti. And it was anything but easy. “Unlike the earlier SSK class submarine, where the hull circle had a tolerance of less than 5 mm, this one has a tolerance of 1 mm, which means once bent into shape, the circle from any level should have a diameter of 6.2 metres with an allowance of 1 mm,” he said. “This means it can either be 6.199 metres or 6.201 metres but not a millimetre more or less. This was really tough for our welders who were used to the earlier model and we simply did not get it right.”

Welders would go home depressed as the steel also had an extra spring which meant after it was bent and released it would stretch a little making the assessment difficult. Trial and error was the only way to overcome it. “There are no shortcuts to any action,” is how Santosh Belani puts it, as he oversees the frame manufacturing unit in the yard. “It takes between 32 to 35 days to make one circular frame,” he adds.

The monsoon brought with it a different set of woes as humidity made it difficult to achieve the right temperature for welding. “In fact, the frustration touched its peak when every radiograph would find faults in the welding,” says Bharti. “Seventy per cent of all the welds were found going wrong and we had to re-do it. We really started wondering if we would ever achieve accuracy. For the first one year it was just nightmares, and it was like sleeping with the enemy.”

The next nightmare is expected when the engineers have to incorporate the noise reduction technology to make the sub as “silent as a grave”. But having been able to master the welding challenge, the East Yard feels this too shall pass. “Today, we are in a position to participate in any shipbuilding project which comes with the challenge of new technology. It’s a different story when you have just three welders helping in the transfer of new technology compared to the earlier project where an army went to Germany. We are finally standing on our feet and are really confidently at that,” says Goplani.

The Boss of the East Yard
MORE than three decades ago, Prakash Goplani had applied to 80 places for a job after his mechanical engineering degree from Mumbai’s VJTI and was “confused” when he was flooded with lucrative offers from the private sector and an offer from MDL. So he called his father for advice. “He said, ‘why are you even thinking? Go ahead, build for the nation’,” Goplani recalls.
Goplani has never looked back since. Today, the 58-year-old is the general manager of MDL’s East Yard and having built ships such as the Nilgiri class frigates, the Godavari class destroyers and the Shishumar class submarines, he is considered the “father figure” for the nearly 500 workers on the yard. And he is as conscious of the magnitude of the responsibility of building the Scorpenes as he is of the changes at the yard.
“Much has changed in here. Things used to be manual in the 1970s, with very little documentation. Today, everything is done using the latest technology,” he says. Goplani is aware that there is some talk in strategic circles of Project 75 being delayed. But as the man responsible on the ground, he has access to progress reports few others have.
“Despite the pressure and teething problems usually associated with transfer of technology, we are on schedule. We will see the frames for the hull moving in for assembly beginning September and the frames for the second Scorpene are almost ready, which means at this stage we are ahead of our deadlines,” he says.
All those years of sweat and toil have given him the wisdom “that making the submarine is not just about engineering excellence. You need to have the humility to take suggestions from your workers as sometimes, the craziest of ideas sets things right”. Yet there are some regrets. Both his sons are engineers and although he wanted one of them to work for a public sector company he could not stop them from being lured by the private sector.

The Three Welders
Three senior MDL welders, Sadanand Pawar, Narendra Kudkar and T. D. Khade were the chosen ones sent to France to learn the hi-tech MIG/MAG welding technology so that they could return and teach 40 senior colleagues. For Kudkar, 48, his first day in class itself was more than a learning experience. One look at them and the French weren’t exactly screaming ‘avoir confiance’, he says, underestimating their potential.
Fifty-year-old Pawar, known to have a “rock steady hand” and sharp sight, found his morale slipping after the first interaction. “I have been doing just this for the last 30 years and suddenly someone hints that I’m not good enough,” says the man who wakes up at 4 a.m. to reach the yard by 7 a.m. That night, Pawar recalls, he thought, “It is my country’s pride at stake.”
Forty tests in 16 days and with no retakes, the French instructor was gushing that even their own workers had not given them 100 per cent accuracy without retakes in the initial days. “I stopped myself from telling him that I started welding even before he was born,” Pawar says. Kudkar, 48, had extra challenges to deal with. “Being a pure vegetarian, it was difficult to live on mutton and macchi. But every time I put a morsel in my mouth I would tell myself, it’s for the country,” he says.
Back home after 52 days in France, the trio spent days and nights teaching their colleagues. “The initial days were the toughest when we would wait to know radiography results of the joints welded. I felt like a schoolboy waiting to know his results. We wouldn’t get any sleep. We were too tense,” says Kudkar.

The Youngest Engineers
AT 25, mechanical engineers Vinay Chaurasia and Amit Gadepalli are the youngest on the work floor and part of a rare breed that has opted for a public sector job in these days when corporates start wooing students even before they graduate out of engineering college. Chaurasia is from Jhansi and even though his siblings are mechanical, chemical and software engineers, nothing had prepared him for being put in charge of building the Scorpene hull, he says.
Nagpur boy Gadepalli chose MDL over Infosys and Mahindra and Mahindra and says the decision to choose a government job over software packages is his best yet. “Imagine, the only place where I put my management training to use was to break the ice while interacting with the workers,” laughs Gadepalli who oversees welding operations, adding that the “future of the country” was what motivated him to opt for MDL.
Both young engineers admit that there are times when they face friction since many of the workers they boss over have been welding since the early 1980s, around the time they were born. But since both generations are new to the MIG/MAG technology that is being used, it bridges the gap and makes them “classmates of the same school”, says Gadepalli.
“It’s difficult sometimes, when I see my friends doing so well in the software sector. But I tell myself, I am building a submarine, can you beat that,” adds Gadepalli, who plays the mandolin at night. He also tries to convince his colleagues to learn a musical instrument. “I tell them, how difficult can learning a musical instrument be considering you are building a Scorpene.”

The Tech Lady
IT engineer Geetha Sunathkari quit her job at Allahabad Bank and moved to MDL because she wanted a five-day-week job so she could study for her MBA in finance. Although she tries to underplay her role as the senior IT administrator in a highly secretive defence establishment by saying “it is pretty routine here”, the seriousness of her job hits home when she also adds that she is constantly reminded of the “War Room” information leakage scandal that hit the forces in South Block.
Part of her job at the design department is to rotate passwords with her colleagues and ensure perfect secrecy is maintained as they look after the Technical Data Package Information System, which stores designs and is the networking unit between key departments. So paranoid is the process that passwords of some systems are changed frequently, she says, adding that “there are times when it hits me what my job is, and a smile crosses my face”.

Sunathkari is equally excited talking about the saris she presented to the woman-trainer from France and even has a picture saved as the background of her desktop. Her experience of working with a bank prepared her to maintain confidentiality, she says and laughs, “Otherwise, can you imagine women keeping secrets?”
 
RUSSIA'S OFFER OF IMPROVED AMUR CLASS SUBMARINES WITH BRAHMOS MUST BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY
http://http://www.indiadefenceupdate.com/news130.html
The spot light is shining on Indian Navy's choice for its second critical multi billion dollar indigenous submarine building programme. The HDW scandal of the 80s had put a halt to India's submarine building in Mazagon Docks Ltd, for no fault of the Navy. An excellent submarine building establishment which had been built up at the East Yard of the Mazagon Docks Ltd by 1985, had to be disbanded after two HDW-IKL 1500 ton design subs, had been successfully commissioned. An innocuous telegram from India's Ambassador in Germany, inquiring if the 7.5% commission was to be paid for the 6th and 7th submarines as for the first four, set in motion a CBI witch hunt with political cover ups, and finally died a natural death only in 2006. But India's ambitions to build submarines in numbers were disrupted. In the interregnum the Navy acquired 10 double decked Kilo class boats, including two on barter payments from the erstwhile Soviet Union, between 1986 and 2000. The boats had to be routinely sent back to Russia for mid life refits and conversion to fire Klub missiles at great cost to the exchequer. An attempt has been made to refit the first Kilo class at the Hindustan Shipyard Ltd Vishakapatnam but expertise has been lacking. For such specialised refits a nation needs to possess its own submarine building facilities and the Navy's 30 year submarine building programme envisages just that.

THE SCORPENE SCANDAL

Wisely ten years ago, the Government sanctioned a two line 30 year submarine building plan in the form of joint ventures, and it was envisaged India would become an exporter of submarines. IN's submarine arm rightly clamoured for a submarine centric Navy, but was invariably over ruled by the stronger aircraft carrier lobby. Though two aircraft carriers have been ordered at an estimated cost of over $ 4.5 bill only one submarine line, the 6 Scorpene project was sanctioned in 2005 after much dilly dallying. The project with tube launched Exocet missiles is being executed by the French Armaris/DCNS and Spanish-Navantia combine at a cost of $ 3 bill in the congested yard at Mazagon Docks Ltd. The first Scorpene has already fallen back in its building schedule by one year, and may l roll out in 2013, as of now A legal charge of wrong doing in the deal by Transparency International which is headed by a former Navy Chief who should not be doubted and probably knows it all, still breathes in Delhi's High Court, keeping naval officers in the project in NHQ occupied in courts. The Navy desperately does not want to see another HDW debacle and should not. Another former Naval Chief, whose nephew was an arms dealer (and is surprisingly untraceable) who signed the contract has also not indicated what this is all about so that the matter can be closed. And of course the son of another Naval Chief who is one of India's best known arms dealer is involved as he was representing HDW it is clear from the media articles and was oppsiong the Scorpene deal. Some other officers have been cashiered in what is the famous War Room Leak and former Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee a sharp operator probably knows it all too.

Concurrently the Navy has begun the bids for the second line, and Spain's Navantia S-80A, HDW's 214, Russia's Amur class, DCNS French Super Scorpene and an Italian offer are on the files for selection. All bidders have confirmed they will be able to install a plug of 4/8 under water vertically launched missiles of the BrahMos variety. Incidentally Turkey has swiftly completed a similar exercise and as per their Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul, Turkish Navy has settled for the Kiel-based Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH(HDW), and its British partner, Marine Force International, over France's DCNS and Spain's Navantia SA. Negotiations are being finalised for the euro 2.5 billion ($4US billion) deal for 6 boats. The vessels would be built in the Golcuk naval shipyard, near Istanbul, and the first submarine would be delivered in 2015. This deal should give insights to Indian planners on the time schedule and costs for delivery, but it needs airing that India has silently acquired much unreported indigenous submarine building skills in its classified ATV nuclear submarine project, which needs to be harnessed and unleashed. It is time the veil of secrecy is lifted.

As of writing the Indian Navy has a depleting conventional operational submarine fleet. As a thumb rule at any given time only 60% of a submarine fleet is operational for war patrols. From its pre eminent strength of 21 underwater killer submarines, which included the nuclear Charlie class boat INS Chakra in 1988, India today has only 10 aging Kilo class and 4 HDW diesel boats some reaching end of their war patrol operational life, at a time when the Navy aspires for 'Blue Water capability'. China is witnessing the dramatic rise of the PLA(Navy)'s large submarine fleet, reported earlier on this site, which Indian planners need to heed. India's nuclear doctrine also includes the caveat of "no first use " and calls for a Triad in which India's Navy is expected to provide for India's nuclear deterrence from the sea, which in fact is true deterrence. India's Sukhanya class OPVs are being modified to fire the 300 km Dhanush which DRDO claims is nuclear capable, but it would be a folly to arm surface ships with nuclear war heads in this day and age for deterrence, as they would be targeted, tracked and criticised.

INDIA'S NUCLEAR SUBMARINE AMBITIONS ARE RUSSIA SUPPORTED

India's Navy will acquire the 9,000 ton Akula nuclear Project 971 boat christened INS Chakra with out VLS capability next year. The boat's reactor had gone critical in June this year and trials have begun at the Amur yard and Indian Navy has trained its key crew and appointed an Inspector General Vice Admiral to oversee nuclear submarine safety at NHQ. Concurrently a large ATV team of DRDO and BARC/Kalpakam research scientists, some 100 naval officers and many more technicians directly under the Prime Minister's Office direction, with Russian help and enriched uranium so supplied, have been struggling for the last 15 years and have installed an indigenous hybrid 90MW Pressure Water Reactor (PWR) built with Russian and other help for the nuclear submarine at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) at Vishakapatnam called the Advanced Technology Vehicle. The project is still kept under semi wraps and it is estimated over $ 1 bill have been spent, but its target dates are now being pushed for launch. There is every indication the hull will be married and launched latest by early next year as many challenges to weld the sections have been overcome. Even in Germany when HDW was building India's submarine one section could not be welded. Hence when this maiden venture succeeds and India's ATV Captain reports from sea he is under way on nuclear power it will truly be an achievement, the nation can be proud of. DRDO is confident they will be able to arm the boat with indigenous 700km under water launched, nuclear capable missiles. Import of missiles with ranges longer than 300km is prohibited under the Missile Technology Control Regime, and India strictly follows the edict.

The Government has to appreciate that the Russians who have supplied the BrahMos missiles have been quick to have grasped India's needs, for its second line of submarines, to make it a win- win situation. Today two front line units of the Indian Navy are BrahMos ready and the future navy's large platforms including INS Vikramaditya( Gorshkov), the Type 15As and all the Kashins will have the supersonic BrahMos capability. This is where the Russian Amur submarine should score in India's selection for the second line. It is not western in origin, which tap can be shut off as was during the sanctions in the past, the Amur has commonalities with India's ATV which is being built with Russian help on the East Coast, and has many Indian suppliers. KSB Pumps, Larsen and Tubro Ltd, Walchand Industries , Bharat Electricals Ltd, Godrej Tatas, Jindal and such are therefore poised to become suppliers for the Amur project. The Russians have carried out tests to launch the BrahMos in an equivalent mock up of a submarine and had earlier offered the elongated hump backed Amur 1650 ton submarine to the Indian Navy. The Amur building programme has been on offer for over five years and discussions to build the boats in India at Hazira by Larsen and Tubro had also been conducted as the second line of construction after the Scorpene deal with Armaris was signed. Larsen is also setting up a shipyard on the East Coast nat Tuttapuli near Ennore and Indian Navy needs such new yards in numbers for its building programmes. The Amur can fill many bills.

There are various camps and foreign suppliers pushing for the second line of submarine building, now made famous by the Suresh Nanda and Naval War Room leak cases, but the final decision should be taken in the national interest, now so much the flavour of our times with the 123 Nuclear deal. One camp argues that Indian Navy look at the Amur offer seriously for all its commonality and capabilities with the Kilo and ATV and long trusted ties with Russia, and others who claim that the western technology is better. These issues can be technologically weighted and proved. Some in the Navy who have designed the Type 75 Scorpene with patience and effort, would like to see their efforts fructify along western lines and are ready to vilify the Russian's 'up start offer', which is reportedly cheaper. The swords are out for the $ 3 bill plus second line of submarine construction for the Indian Navy, and of course with elections round the corner, sweeteners will also be on offer, but the second line of submarine building will be a critical decision for India's maritime ambitions.
 
guys check this:

Russian -made nuke powered submarine Akula set to join Indian Navy next year

New Delhi, Aug 10 (PTI) With India's aspiration to operate a nuclear submarine likely to be fulfilled next year with Russian-made Akula set to join the fleet, the Indian Navy is pitching for a submarine-launched nuclear missile to boost the nation's deterrence capabilities.
"With nuclear proliferation posing a greater threat along with Weapons of Mass Destruction, our unilateral policy of no-first-use necessitates that India possesses a credible and survivable nuclear deterrent including submarine-launched," Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta said yesterday while delivering a lecture on Navy's vision for the future.

India had in February this year tested a submarine-launched ballistic missile for the first time that would take another three years to be fully operational.

After a delay, Akula nuclear-powered submarine is likely to join service with Indian Navy next year, Mehta said, pointing out that the Navy would basically use the Russian-made submarine for training in personnel before they get to operate the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine that is under secret construction at the Mazagaon Docks in Mumbai.

"Though it is an operational submarine, Akula will be basically used for training Naval operators before they get to operate our indigenous nuclear-powered submarine," the Navy chief said.

A DRDO project, the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine project, codenamed Advanced Technology Vehicle, is said to be well set for sea trials two years from now. PTI
 
"Though it is an operational submarine, Akula will be basically used for training Naval operators before they get to operate our indigenous nuclear-powered submarine," the Navy chief said.

Can this statement be taken at face value?

What happens in case of a war and if India decides to put it to use? Is it really for training only?
 
Can this statement be taken at face value?

What happens in case of a war and if India decides to put it to use? Is it really for training only?

At that time we will use the submarine as we like, and we will simply say sorry to russians. :)
 
Guys this is something to cheer about:

Delhi engineering students win US competition award- ET Cetera-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

Delhi engineering students win US competition award
11 Aug, 2008, 1740 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: A team of undergraduates of the Delhi College of Engineering (DCE) has bagged the "Most Improved Design Award" for 2008 in a US-based tech competition organised to design a new-generation robotic submarine which can have a wider application in the defence field.

"The award is the first for any educational institute in the country," claimed head of DCE's Centre for Fibre Optics Research R K Sinha, adding that the overall position of the college stood at ninth place in the competition International Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Competition.

Notably, DCE was the only team from the country participating in the competition organised by the Association for Vehicle System International and the Office of the Naval Research, USA, at San Diego from July 29 to August 3.

In all, about 40 teams representing well-known institutes from across the world took part in the event. They included MIT, Georgia Tech, Cornell and Kyusho University of Japan among others.

University of Maryland clinched the pole position. Sinha said the robotic submarine codenamed "vehicle for autonomous research and underwater navigation" is capable of diving to a predetermined depth, identify patterns and follow underwater pipelines using unique machine vision.

Besides, it can determine sound sources by acoustic navigation, deploy payloads and can surface at any given position without human assistance.
 

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