Indian Space Capabilities

[Han Patriot]

So semi cryogenic = lox/rp-1?. All the best to Indian scientists then

I think China is already using it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-100

 

[ranadd]

I think China is already using it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-100

Yes.

China is around 10 years ahead of India in almost all economical & technical achievements. So....

 

[ranadd]

After visiting Chennai, Mumbai and Bangalore, I think it's more like 25 years.

That is pushing it. Even 15 I can agree. 25 is your wishful thinking. India does not concentrate development as you chinese. There will be no sky scrapers as you hope.

Also, remember India is what today mainly on domestic consumption. Not like external exports like china.

EDIT: I been to north-western parts of China. So please, dont take the argument too far. I know what China is very well.

 

[Han Patriot]

That is pushing it. Even 15 I can agree. 25 is your wishful thinking. India does not concentrate development as you chinese. There will be no sky scrapers as you hope.

Also, remember India is what today mainly on domestic consumption. Not like external exports like china.

EDIT: I been to north-western parts of China. So please, dont take the argument too far. I know what China is very well.

I don't want to argue and make this an economics thread, but I highly doubt you've ever been to China.

 

[amardeep mishra]

India for all intent and purposes is like 10-15 years behind china in "infrastructure related indices". Indian govt would have to spend an aweful lot of money to bring Indian infrastructure at par with china's. No matter what we wish or other's wish, this will only change in a short span of time if any autoritarian leader remains in delhi for decent time span.

 

[ashok321]

ISRO is getting its heaviest rocket ready for human space flight, reveals former chief


HYDERABAD: ISRO is in the process of further improving the capability of its GSLV-Mk III so that it can use this heaviest rocket for human space flight mission once government approval comes, a top scientist said here.

GSLV-Mk III is really the vehicle that will be the workhorse in the coming years for primarily launching geo-synchronous missions and also very heavy spacecraft in near-earth missions, K Kasturirangan, former chief of ISRO, told PTI.

The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) earlier this week successfully launched from the Sriharikota spaceport, the first developmental flight of GSLV-MK III, capable of launching four-ton class satellites.

"ISRO is in the process of further improving the capability of this vehicle. It could go up to a ten-ton kind of capability," said Kasturirangan.

It was during his tenure as ISRO Chairman the GSLV-Mk III was configured and the programme secured approval by the Space Commission in the early part of the previous decade.

"So, this will be a level of vehicle which India will use for most of the requirements of geo-synchronous missions. It can take to up to four tons and, hopefully with improvements in some of the areas, one can go even beyond four tons," he said.

"With this we want to build our communication satellites. So, it's very tailored for future communication satellites to be launched by India. We will not have to depend on any other foreign launch agency," according to him.

Kasturirangan said ISRO is trying to do a "man-rating sort of thing" (or human rating), which is a certification of a spacecraft or launch vehicle as worthy of transporting humans.

So as and when there is a need and the country takes a decision on going for human space flight, it would have an "autonomous ability" to access the space through this vehicle in those missions, he said

"Certainly, it's a very elegantly-configured system (GSLV-Mk III). I am sure this will certainly serve us for a long time to come in the context of a variety of missions and also make us much more self-reliant in respect to accessing space," he said.

On opportunities for ISRO to tap into the market of launching four-ton class satellites from foreign customers, Kasturirangan said: "I am sure India will be one of the important contenders for taking some share of the market. India can provide a competitive market for that kind of launches with GSLV Mk III".

But he was quick to add that New Delhi would have competitors from (launch vehicle providers in) France, (some other parts of) Europe, the United States, China and Russia.

"There are contenders...many of them are established over the years. At this stage, we have to explore the market and slowly get into it," Kasturirangan said.

He, however, added that foreign customers find working with Indians for launch services a "very good experience" given their culture and attitude, which are appreciated by many countries.

 

[ashok321]

Lets not brag we Indians!
Lets listen to our own head of ISRO!
There are several countries who are more advanced than India in space tech!
India is not a king of space!
Why brag man?

But he was quick to add that New Delhi would have competitors from (launch vehicle providers in) France, (some other parts of) Europe, the United States, China and Russia.

"There are contenders...many of them are established over the years. At this stage, we have to explore the market and slowly get into it," Kasturirangan said.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Indians have been barging about how indigenous indian missile technology is while Pak's is just copy of everything. Infact both india and pak have no indigenous missile technology. Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control - Stopping Arms Proliferation at the Source

Missile Helpers

India did not build its missiles alone. The world's leading rocket producers gave essential help in research, development, and manufacture.

France

* Licensed production of sounding rockets in India
* Supplied the liquid-fuel Viking rocket engine, now the "Vikas" engine of the PSLV second stage
* Tested Indian-produced Vikas engine in France

Germany

* Delivered measurement and calibration equipment to ISRO laboratories
* Trained Indians in high-altitude tests of rocket motors and in glass and carbon fiber composites for rocket engine housings, nozzles and nose cones
* Designed high-altitude rocket test facilities
* Conducted wind tunnel tests for SLV-3 rocket
* Developed radio frequency interferometer for rocket guidance
* Developed computers for rocket payload guidance based on U.S. microprocessor
* Supplied documentation for a filament-winding machine to make rocket engine nozzles and housings
* Helped build Vikas rocket engine test facilities
* Designed hypersonic wind tunnel and heat transfer facilities
* Supplied rocket motor segment rings for PSLV

Russia

* Supplied surface-to-air missiles which became the models for the Prithvi missile and the second stage of the Agni medium-range missile
* Sold seven cryogenic rocket engines

United Kingdom

* Supplied components for Imarat Research Center, home to the Agni missile
* Supplied magnetrons for radar guidance and detonation systems to Defense Research and Development Laboratory

United States

* Launched U.S.-built rockets from Thumba test range
* Trained Dr. Abdul Kalam, designer of the Agni
* Introduced India to the Scout rocket, the model for the SLV-3 rocket and the Agni first stage
* Sent technical reports on the Scout rocket to Homi Bhabha, the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission
* Sold equipment that can simulate vibrations on a warhead





The Link Between Space Launch and Missile Technology


Presentation by Gary Milhollin
at the
Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies

Honolulu, Hawaii


March 16, 2000


Introduction - History

The nuclear and missile arms race in South Asia is getting a lot of attention since the test explosions in 1998. The history of missile development there illustrates the close connection between space launch and missile technology.

In 1963, NASA began the Indian rocket program. NASA launched a U.S. sounding rocket from India's first test range, which the United States helped design. We also trained the first groups of Indian rocket scientists. NASA invited them to NASA's Wallops Island test site located southeast of Washington, DC in Virginia.

While at NASA, Mr. A.P. Kalam, a member of the Indian delegation, learned about the U.S. Scout rocket, which was being flown at Wallops Island. The Scout was the only four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. Indian engineers saw the Scout's blueprints during their visit. Two years later, the head of India's Atomic Energy Commission asked NASA for design information about the Scout. Mr. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which became the only other four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. It was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the Scout then became the first stage of India's first large ballistic missile, the Agni-I. The Agni-I's second stage was liquid-fueled, and was based on a surface-to-air missile called the SA-2 that India bought from Russia.
France also helped India master liquid-fuel technology by selling India the technology used to build the "Viking" engine used on the Ariane space launcher. India calls its version the "Vikas." The Agni also needed a guidance system. The German Space Agency obliged with a long tutorial in rocket guidance, which allowed India to develop a guidance system and learn how to produce its components (gyroscopes, accelerometers and so forth). The German Space Agency also tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 in one of its wind tunnels in Cologne and helped India build its own rocket test facilities. Germany also trained Indians in how to make composite materials.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear-capable missile is an international product. Under the mantle of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany all helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia.

The story in Pakistan is similar. NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket in 1962. Pakistan's project was also led by the head of Pakistan's Atomic Energy Commission. We must wonder what was going through NASA's mind at this time - it keeps getting requests for space cooperation from the heads of atomic energy commissions. Apparently NASA thought this was normal. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island, and launched rockets in Pakistan until 1970.

_________________________________


Testimony of Gary Milhollin

Professor, University of Wisconsin Law School and
Director, Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control

Before the House Committee on Science

June 25, 1998

I am pleased to appear today before this distinguished Committee. In accordance with the Committee's request, I will discuss the U.S. policy of cooperation with foreign space programs and the risk that this cooperation could contribute to the spread of missile technology.

Helping India and Pakistan

I would like to begin with a bit of history. There is an important lesson to be learned about the origin of India's largest nuclear-capable missile, the "Agni."

In November 1963, NASA began the Indian space program by launching a U.S. rocket from Indian soil. Between 1963 and 1975, more than 350 U.S., French, Soviet and British rockets were launched from India's new Thumba Range, which the United States helped design. Thumba's first group of Indian engineers learned rocket launching and range operation from the United States.

Among these engineers was A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, the Agni missile's chief designer. After the Indian nuclear tests last month, he was also hailed as the "father" of the Indian atomic bomb. In 1963-64, he spent four months in training in the United States. He visited NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia, where the U.S. Scout rocket was conceived, and the Wallops Island Flight Center in Virginia, where the Scout was being flown. The Scout was a four-stage, solid-fueled launcher used to orbit small payloads. It was also used to test the performance of reentry vehicles--a technology necessary to deliver nuclear warheads. According to NASA officials, the Indian engineers saw the blueprints of the Scout during their visit.

In 1965, the Indian government asked NASA for design information about the Scout. The request should have raised some eyebrows. It came from the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. Nevertheless, NASA obligingly supplied the information. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the SLV-3 is now the first stage of the Agni missile.

The second stage of the Agni is based on a surface-to-air missile known as the SA-2 that India bought from Russia. But in order to build the second stage, India also had to learn about liquid propulsion. For this, India turned to France. The French willingly transferred the technology needed to build a powerful liquid-fueled rocket motor called the "Viking," which powers the European Space Agency's Ariane satellite launcher. Thus, India learned how to build the first stage of the Agni from the United States, and how to build the second stage from France and Russia. The U.S. and French help was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration, but it wound up helping India's missile program.

The Agni also needed a guidance system. For this, India turned to the German Space Agency. In the 1970s and 1980s, Germany conducted an intensive tutorial for India in rocket guidance. The assistance--once again--was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration. But each step in the process for building a guidance system for India's space launcher moved India further down the road to building a guidance system for the Agni missile. In fact, India seems to have invented a new term to describe its progress. Again and again, India's Department of Space, in its annual reports, announced that it was able to "indigenize" another piece of essential equipment.

Germany also provided other help. The German Space Agency tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 (identical to the Scout) in its wind tunnel at Cologne-Portz. That first stage is now the first stage of the Agni missile. The German Space Agency also helped India build rocket test facilities, and trained Indians in the use of the special composite materials needed to make rocket nozzles and nosecones. I have included a graphic and a table in my testimony that summarizes the extensive foreign help that India received.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear missile is an international product. Under the guise of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia. The Agni's first stage, second stage and guidance system all come from Western technology, which proves beyond any doubt that you cannot help a country build space launchers without helping it build missiles.

The story in Pakistan is similar. In 1962, NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket, a U.S. made Nike-Cajun, in a project led by Tariq Mustafa, the senior scientific officer of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island. Other NASA-sponsored launches followed until 1970. Thus, the first rockets in both India and Pakistan were launched by NASA under a policy of peaceful space cooperation. The result of that cooperation, however, has been long-range missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

_________________________________-
Basically the brain of SLV and Agni are "German" R&D and proliferated by India.

 

[Bharat Muslim]

Indians have been barging about how indigenous indian missile technology is while Pak's is just copy of everything. Infact both india and pak have no indigenous missile technology. Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control - Stopping Arms Proliferation at the Source

Missile Helpers

India did not build its missiles alone. The world's leading rocket producers gave essential help in research, development, and manufacture.

France

* Licensed production of sounding rockets in India
* Supplied the liquid-fuel Viking rocket engine, now the "Vikas" engine of the PSLV second stage
* Tested Indian-produced Vikas engine in France

Germany

* Delivered measurement and calibration equipment to ISRO laboratories
* Trained Indians in high-altitude tests of rocket motors and in glass and carbon fiber composites for rocket engine housings, nozzles and nose cones
* Designed high-altitude rocket test facilities
* Conducted wind tunnel tests for SLV-3 rocket
* Developed radio frequency interferometer for rocket guidance
* Developed computers for rocket payload guidance based on U.S. microprocessor
* Supplied documentation for a filament-winding machine to make rocket engine nozzles and housings
* Helped build Vikas rocket engine test facilities
* Designed hypersonic wind tunnel and heat transfer facilities
* Supplied rocket motor segment rings for PSLV

Russia

* Supplied surface-to-air missiles which became the models for the Prithvi missile and the second stage of the Agni medium-range missile
* Sold seven cryogenic rocket engines

United Kingdom

* Supplied components for Imarat Research Center, home to the Agni missile
* Supplied magnetrons for radar guidance and detonation systems to Defense Research and Development Laboratory

United States

* Launched U.S.-built rockets from Thumba test range
* Trained Dr. Abdul Kalam, designer of the Agni
* Introduced India to the Scout rocket, the model for the SLV-3 rocket and the Agni first stage
* Sent technical reports on the Scout rocket to Homi Bhabha, the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission
* Sold equipment that can simulate vibrations on a warhead





The Link Between Space Launch and Missile Technology


Presentation by Gary Milhollin
at the
Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies

Honolulu, Hawaii


March 16, 2000


Introduction - History

The nuclear and missile arms race in South Asia is getting a lot of attention since the test explosions in 1998. The history of missile development there illustrates the close connection between space launch and missile technology.

In 1963, NASA began the Indian rocket program. NASA launched a U.S. sounding rocket from India's first test range, which the United States helped design. We also trained the first groups of Indian rocket scientists. NASA invited them to NASA's Wallops Island test site located southeast of Washington, DC in Virginia.

While at NASA, Mr. A.P. Kalam, a member of the Indian delegation, learned about the U.S. Scout rocket, which was being flown at Wallops Island. The Scout was the only four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. Indian engineers saw the Scout's blueprints during their visit. Two years later, the head of India's Atomic Energy Commission asked NASA for design information about the Scout. Mr. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which became the only other four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. It was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the Scout then became the first stage of India's first large ballistic missile, the Agni-I. The Agni-I's second stage was liquid-fueled, and was based on a surface-to-air missile called the SA-2 that India bought from Russia.
France also helped India master liquid-fuel technology by selling India the technology used to build the "Viking" engine used on the Ariane space launcher. India calls its version the "Vikas." The Agni also needed a guidance system. The German Space Agency obliged with a long tutorial in rocket guidance, which allowed India to develop a guidance system and learn how to produce its components (gyroscopes, accelerometers and so forth). The German Space Agency also tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 in one of its wind tunnels in Cologne and helped India build its own rocket test facilities. Germany also trained Indians in how to make composite materials.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear-capable missile is an international product. Under the mantle of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany all helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia.

The story in Pakistan is similar. NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket in 1962. Pakistan's project was also led by the head of Pakistan's Atomic Energy Commission. We must wonder what was going through NASA's mind at this time - it keeps getting requests for space cooperation from the heads of atomic energy commissions. Apparently NASA thought this was normal. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island, and launched rockets in Pakistan until 1970.

_________________________________


Testimony of Gary Milhollin

Professor, University of Wisconsin Law School and
Director, Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control

Before the House Committee on Science

June 25, 1998

I am pleased to appear today before this distinguished Committee. In accordance with the Committee's request, I will discuss the U.S. policy of cooperation with foreign space programs and the risk that this cooperation could contribute to the spread of missile technology.

Helping India and Pakistan

I would like to begin with a bit of history. There is an important lesson to be learned about the origin of India's largest nuclear-capable missile, the "Agni."

In November 1963, NASA began the Indian space program by launching a U.S. rocket from Indian soil. Between 1963 and 1975, more than 350 U.S., French, Soviet and British rockets were launched from India's new Thumba Range, which the United States helped design. Thumba's first group of Indian engineers learned rocket launching and range operation from the United States.

Among these engineers was A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, the Agni missile's chief designer. After the Indian nuclear tests last month, he was also hailed as the "father" of the Indian atomic bomb. In 1963-64, he spent four months in training in the United States. He visited NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia, where the U.S. Scout rocket was conceived, and the Wallops Island Flight Center in Virginia, where the Scout was being flown. The Scout was a four-stage, solid-fueled launcher used to orbit small payloads. It was also used to test the performance of reentry vehicles--a technology necessary to deliver nuclear warheads. According to NASA officials, the Indian engineers saw the blueprints of the Scout during their visit.

In 1965, the Indian government asked NASA for design information about the Scout. The request should have raised some eyebrows. It came from the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. Nevertheless, NASA obligingly supplied the information. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the SLV-3 is now the first stage of the Agni missile.

The second stage of the Agni is based on a surface-to-air missile known as the SA-2 that India bought from Russia. But in order to build the second stage, India also had to learn about liquid propulsion. For this, India turned to France. The French willingly transferred the technology needed to build a powerful liquid-fueled rocket motor called the "Viking," which powers the European Space Agency's Ariane satellite launcher. Thus, India learned how to build the first stage of the Agni from the United States, and how to build the second stage from France and Russia. The U.S. and French help was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration, but it wound up helping India's missile program.

The Agni also needed a guidance system. For this, India turned to the German Space Agency. In the 1970s and 1980s, Germany conducted an intensive tutorial for India in rocket guidance. The assistance--once again--was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration. But each step in the process for building a guidance system for India's space launcher moved India further down the road to building a guidance system for the Agni missile. In fact, India seems to have invented a new term to describe its progress. Again and again, India's Department of Space, in its annual reports, announced that it was able to "indigenize" another piece of essential equipment.

Germany also provided other help. The German Space Agency tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 (identical to the Scout) in its wind tunnel at Cologne-Portz. That first stage is now the first stage of the Agni missile. The German Space Agency also helped India build rocket test facilities, and trained Indians in the use of the special composite materials needed to make rocket nozzles and nosecones. I have included a graphic and a table in my testimony that summarizes the extensive foreign help that India received.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear missile is an international product. Under the guise of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia. The Agni's first stage, second stage and guidance system all come from Western technology, which proves beyond any doubt that you cannot help a country build space launchers without helping it build missiles.

The story in Pakistan is similar. In 1962, NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket, a U.S. made Nike-Cajun, in a project led by Tariq Mustafa, the senior scientific officer of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island. Other NASA-sponsored launches followed until 1970. Thus, the first rockets in both India and Pakistan were launched by NASA under a policy of peaceful space cooperation. The result of that cooperation, however, has been long-range missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

_________________________________-
Basically the brain of SLV and Agni are "German" R&D and proliferated by India.

This post is not visible when we log out and watch the thread as guest.

Some posts are not visible when we log out and watch the thread as guest.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Some posts are not visible when we log out and watch the thread as guest.

 

[ranadd]

but I highly doubt you've ever been to China.

I highly doubt you can say anything about me.

 

[Fledgingwings]

The way I see ISRO and its all hoo haa is that one day ISRO will catapult this earth into heaven with Cow fuel.

 

[Surya 1]

Lets not brag we Indians!
Lets listen to our own head of ISRO!
There are several countries who are more advanced than India in space tech!
India is not a king of space!
Why brag man?

Name those several countries you false flagger.

 

[Kinetic]

Lets not brag we Indians!
Lets listen to our own head of ISRO!
There are several countries who are more advanced than India in space tech!
India is not a king of space!
Why brag man?

A false flag loser. lol

 

[X_Killer]

Yes.

China is around 10 years ahead of India in almost all economical & technical achievements. So....

After visiting Chennai, Mumbai and Bangalore, I think it's more like 25 years.

Recent technical achievements of China (may,17)
Chinese anti-aircraft gun breaks, kills 4 Indonesian soldiers in military exercise.

Keep it up and please don't make baseless and stupid comments anymore.
Try not to spoil this thread, try to keep it clean.