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Indian retaliation: Australian man stabbed by Indians, Australian's car torched

What did you want to mean by middle-eastern or asian gangs? Did you want to say the Arabs or Chinese are attacking indians? Dude, you are of indian origin, i guess. An Australian would have never said that. Your opinion itself is racist. Please do not be so cunning, i will get everything you opine, all the connotations and denotations of your statement.

Yes i agree with you that it is not new in Australia. Asians have been assaulted many times. Also other non-indian migrants. But they have never complained and their media houses never made a public hysteria out of that issue. Indians had earlier been targeted not only in Australia but in some other countries also, but the media then chose to remain silent on the issue. But this time, I would say, Australia has become a soft target for Indians and their media houses, as Indians knew it very well that for almost 2 billion dollars and for placating the emerging a south asian power, Australia would be in a helpless option less state. There can be some sort of planned blackmailing, hijacking, demanding for extra exclusive visa privileges, economic concessions, work permits... I cannot say with confirmation, but I can speculate observing the course of events. I am not saying that India is planning to colonize Australia in a slow and steady process. I can only say, such media hype would not have appeared, had it been the USA instead of Australia. May be there are some Indian assets in the Australian Govt who are involved in this mission. It seems surprising, why police have not arrested the culprits who attacked the Indian students and why Indian media houses have so hurriedly labeled the assaults racists. Why Australian media is silent. Either every one in Australia is racist, or none care for racism.

Time will tell to which direction the course of water will flow.




OK so clearly you dont know what you are talking about so let me break it down for you.

I am non Indian, I am white with English heritage, my ancestors moved to Australia over 150 years ago. And I dont not practise any religion.
You conspiracy theories about economic concessions, work permits, etc are just that. What you are reffering to is "trade" you know, its what makes the world go round.
Australian media silent on the issue?? you obviously dont live in Australia because you would know that you can not pick up a newspaper or see a news programs without the attacks being mentioned.
As far as the gangs are concerned, this is how Australian gangs work.
Most proffitable gang in Australia are the bikies, mainly of white origin, and mainly into the drug trade
The gangs that roam the streets are made up of ethnic backgrounds.
Mainly Lebonese, Turkish, Vietnamese/Chinese, Islanders(Maori, Somoa, etc) and White
I live 20 mins from one of the most recent attacks, St Albans. The streets there are controlled by Islanders and Lebonese gangs.
A lot of train and street assaults are caused by these gands, Australia has Asian and also Middle-Eastern police crime units now because it is becoming big problem. Most of the herion trade is now controlled by Vietnamese and Lebonese.
My other comment about australia haveing a good look in the mirror, is my view that Australia could probably do a better job in intergrating people of other cultures in our society and not wanting those people to look to join a gang.
 
INDIA has called for its students in Australia to show restraint in the face of a series of violent attacks against them, after more than 200 Indians protested on the streets and exacted a "vigilante" reprisal attack on a group of Middle Eastern men

THE assault of two Indian men by a group of Lebanese men which sparked a reprisal attack and prompted angry protests, was not racially motivated, police say.

Police were called to Wigram Street at Harris Park, in Sydney's west, just before 9pm (AEST) on Monday after an Indian man in his early 20s was attacked by a group of Lebanese men.


perspective thanks.

Not sure if this is from the current story or the earlier riots. Links would clarify.

But, there is no need of added perspective. Vigilante attacks on groups based on cultural or racial heritage is always a bad idea - whether they are Indian, Australian or Middle Eastern. Sit around have a cup of tea and talk. If that fails, form a rally and protest peacefully/ send messages to parliament/MPs to enact laws. That's the true non-violent way. Not stabbing random people.
 
OK so clearly you dont know what you are talking about so let me break it down for you.

I am non Indian, I am white with English heritage, my ancestors moved to Australia over 150 years ago. And I dont not practise any religion.
You conspiracy theories about economic concessions, work permits, etc are just that. What you are reffering to is "trade" you know, its what makes the world go round.
Australian media silent on the issue?? you obviously dont live in Australia because you would know that you can not pick up a newspaper or see a news programs without the attacks being mentioned.
As far as the gangs are concerned, this is how Australian gangs work.
Most proffitable gang in Australia are the bikies, mainly of white origin, and mainly into the drug trade
The gangs that roam the streets are made up of ethnic backgrounds.
Mainly Lebonese, Turkish, Vietnamese/Chinese, Islanders(Maori, Somoa, etc) and White
I live 20 mins from one of the most recent attacks, St Albans. The streets there are controlled by Islanders and Lebonese gangs.
A lot of train and street assaults are caused by these gands, Australia has Asian and also Middle-Eastern police crime units now because it is becoming big problem. Most of the herion trade is now controlled by Vietnamese and Lebonese.
My other comment about australia haveing a good look in the mirror, is my view that Australia could probably do a better job in intergrating people of other cultures in our society and not wanting those people to look to join a gang.

I really doubt that Dude Communist who posted that is Indian.
I have 2 Aussie friends I know for almost a year whom I met in Europe - I know how the earlier riots started and how racists piled in to make it a widespread issue.

What I cannot understand is this - how is it that the drug cartels in USA have similar issues (mexico is the preferred route now and illegal immigrants are big carriers) but no riot breaks out here ? Gang rivalries and gang-wars between people of different races and backgrounds (a small break-up here Prison Gangs -- Gangs and Security Threat Group Awareness) never escalate into larger riots.

Why stab Indian students? Or even more stupid, why would Individual Indians go on to stab Aussies (that's certainly not a common behaviour back in India unless for money or as a part of a religious riot).
 
Race against caste - Subverse - Opinion - The Times of India

The coincidental juxtapositioning of the racist attacks on Indian students in Australia, and the riots that flared across north India last month when members of the Dera Sach Khand, a Sikh sect comprised largely of Dalits, went on the rampage following the killing of one of their community leaders in far-off Austria, once again raises the question: Is racism the same as casteism?

Though racism continues to be practised in many parts of the world, after the end of apartheid in South Africa it has no fig leaf of political or social legitimacy. Formations like the British National Party (which has recently, for the first time, won two seats in the European Parliament) have racism as their hidden agenda; they cannot openly espouse it but disguise it under the garb of the need for stricter immigration control, and the imperative to preserve the cultural norms of the majority (white) community. The overtly racist Ku Klux Klan in America operates under the cover of anonymous masks.

As an officially sanctioned doctrine, racism has ceased to exist in the world. That it continues to be practised, in Australia and elsewhere, is deplorable, to say the least. But the forces of liberalism can at least claim a shambolic victory in that they have driven racism underground, made it the criminalised territory of mindless thugs and goons.

While organisations such as Amnesty International have equated casteism (particularly as practised against Dalits) with racism, India's official position is that the two cannot be compared. In support of this stand, policymakers point out that the Indian Constitution specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of caste.

How valid is this argument? Tragically, not very. To begin with, the constitutionally-guaranteed policy of reservations (which continues in expanded mode till now) is in itself an admission of the need to protect lower castes from upper caste discrimination. Casteism, particularly as practised against Dalits, continues to be one of the ugliest stains on our supposedly secular and democratic social fabric. Dalits are routinely attacked, raped, denied entry into temples, and forced to suffer endless humiliations. That 'token' Dalits be it Jagjivan Ram, or Meira Kumar, or even the feisty Mayawati have earned prominent positions for themselves in our political sphere only makes the plight of the vast majority of this brutally downtrodden community all the more agonising.

In many ways, casteism is far more deeply entrenched than racism. Racism is based on the difference of physical characteristics, such as the colour of one's skin. Such visible differences, however, can be obliterated, or at least mitigated, by economic and other factors. For instance, thanks to Japan's 'economic miracle' which made that country one of the richest in the world, the apartheid regime in South Africa accorded Japanese the status of 'honorary Caucasians' who were not subject to Pretoria's segregatory laws.

There is no difference in skin colour, or in DNA, or in any other physical characteristic, between a Dalit and a Brahmin. Yet the social chasm between the two has remained unbridged for millennia. And will probably remain so in perpetuity, no matter what economic advances Dalits make.

So Indian officialdom is right when it says that racism and casteism can't be equated. They can't. For the simple reason that casteism is far more overtly rampant, more widespread and more accepted (at least in India) and more deeply ingrained in our polity than racism is anywhere in the world.

And there is one particular caste in India which, in some ways, is as equally if not more oppressed than Dalits. It is a caste that is routinely burnt alive, killed in the womb, beaten, sexually violated and often subject to lifelong abuse and deprivation. It is a caste called women.
 
^ ^ ^

One point the author forgot to mention. Racism is basically secular, but caste is based on Hindutva ideology and identity. Caste will be there so far as Hinduism will exist. It makes the difference between racism and casteism. Thankfully, Islam, Christianity and even Judaism have no place for casteist discrimination or treatment.
 
The Hindu : Caste abuse akin to racism: Amnesty

LONDON, JULY 26. The campaign to raise the issue of caste-based discrimination at the United Nations conference against racism in South Africa next month got a boost after Amnesty International on Wednesday released a report on caste ``abuse'' in India equating it with racism.

An Amnesty International official here told The Hindu today that it ``fully'' supported the campaign and its representatives at the Durban conference would press for treating casteism as a form of racial discrimination. ``We believe that racism as defined in the International Covenant for the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination covers discrimination based on caste and this should be mentioned in the final declaration of the conference,'' said Ms. Julia Deponte.

The Amnesty, in its report on Racism and the Administration of Justice, recalled that two years ago ``hundreds'' of human rights groups gave a petition, signed by 2.5 million people, to the Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayee, demanding an end to caste prejudices and urging the U.N. to take seriously the issue of ``caste-based abuse and discrimination''. It referred approvingly to the move by the National Campaign for Dalit Human Rights to highlight it as a case of ``hidden apartheid''.

``The Indian Government, however, has consistently refused to concede that caste-based discrimination should be discussed within the context of racial discrimination,'' the report said.

It named India among the countries accused of human rights violations. There was a lack of ``political will'' in India to implement the laws designed to protect Dalits with the result that despite well-meaning legislation, caste ``abuse'' was widely prevalent. The Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Act had ``failed'' to provide relief to the victims of caste discrimination and there was ``disinclination'' among officials to acknowledge the existence of social injustice, it said alleging widespread caste bias in the criminal justice system.

The report, released by Ms. Kate Gilmore, a senior Amnesty executive, alleged that lower caste members were victims of torture, rape, arbitrary arrests and other forms of harassment. It catalogued instances of caste abuse and harassment highlighted at the National Public Hearing on Dalit Human Rights in Chennai last year. Dalits from all over India recounted their experiences, and some of the more harrowing tales came from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, Punjab and Maharashtra.

The evidence collected at the hearing was seen to reflect the Indian Government's failure to protect the rights of its Dalit population, and Amnesty supported the view that the U.N. should respond to the issue. An Amnesty official said a number of human rights groups had come together under the banner of International Dalits Solidarity Network to step up the campaign to pressure the U.N. into recognising caste discrimination as racism.

The report also came down heavily on Britain for what it regarded as its less than satisfactory record on protecting the rights of its minority groups. ``The Government in the U.K., including its police force, in Amnesty International's view, falls below the standards that every citizen could reasonably expect of it,'' it said. The Home Office, however, maintained that Britain had some of the most comprehensive race relations legislation in Europe.
 
Police deny Indian attacks racist
Police have played down reports of racial violence in western Sydney, where up to 200 Indian nationals have rallied in response to attacks on two students...

Police deny Indian attacks racist - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
I don't know whom two earlier posts were referred to.
Admitting that some of the recent attacks on Indians in Australia were “racially motivated,” Victorian Police Commissioner Simon Overland on Tuesday said the police force should be “multicultural” and asked the community members to join it.

Mr. Overland, who had been denying any racial angle to the incidents, told foreign journalists that some of the recent attacks were “racist.”


Also from the same newspaper you quoted.
THE recent spate of bashings of Indian students in Melbourne is an appalling episode in this nation's history. It is a serious social, educational, diplomatic and probably economic crisis that no one is taking seriously enough. The performance of John Brumby's Victorian Government has been pathetic. It has stumbled from bland denial to belated symbolism, never acknowledging the gravity of the problem or its own culpability and not taking any serious action to confront it.

The Rudd Government's response also has been belated, but there is a better sense in Canberra of the problem's dimensions.

It seems astonishing that you would have to argue with anybody that a big outbreak of racist violence in an Australian capital city is a first-order problem.

Last financial year nearly 1500 assaults and robberies were committed on people of Indian origin in Victoria, up by nearly one-third from the year before. But what has rightly gained international attention is the many assaults on Indian students.

Brumby and his Police Commissioner Simon Overland at first were inclined to deny the problem was racial at all. Eventually they came to admit that some attacks were racial, but still cling to the idiotic defence that most of the crimes are opportunistic, as if it's impossible to be opportunistic and racist.

In making these assertions, Brumby and co must be the only people who believe them. Certainly the victims of the crimes don't.

Brumby and his Government have conveyed a kind of insane, Sir Humphrey Appleby, genial imperturbability. You can imagine the Sir Humphrey response: "Yes, Mr Banerjee, we do acknowledge that you have been beaten to within an inch of your life and the Government finds that wholly regrettable. However we can assure you that the perpetrator, whose identity we do not know, had no racial animosity towards you. We would further remind you that you are lucky to live in the world's most livable city and we hope that next time you are bashed your response will bear this more fully in mind."

A young Indian-Australian friend of mine walked into a Melbourne garage and saw a young Indian attendant, a student working part time, being subjected to the most vile, scatological, racist abuse by a man of Caucasian background who was covered in tattoos and wearing long hair. When my young friend made the abuser aware of his presence the abuse stopped.

Too many Indian students report incidents such as this, ranging up to full-scale assault, for anyone seriously to deny the problem.

Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull made useful statements deploring the attacks. But, as usual, the greatest moral clarity came from Michael Danby, the federal Labor member for Melbourne Ports. He wasn't obliged to play the Sir Humphrey tricks and instead spoke straightforwardly: "These attacks are a disgrace to Australia. As an MP from Melbourne I am angry and ashamed that these things are happening in my city."

These bashings also have developed into a foreign policy crisis. This is because of the blanket, at times hysterical, coverage in the Indian media. But before we get too high and mighty condemning the Indian media, just imagine our response if dozens of Australian tourists had been racially selected for bashing in, say, Fiji or Malaysia. Just think of the talkback radio and tabloid reaction we would create.

These bashings have been reported all across the world. Al-Jazeera rang me this week to get the phone number of the Indian Students Federation. They have been widely reported in Britain. And in India the Australian Government could not have got a worse result if it had spent a billion dollars on a negative publicity campaign.

This column has always believed that racism is such a serious charge that it should be levelled very carefully and that a lot that is called racism is something else. But there is no doubt that Melbourne has witnessed serious, vicious, violent racism in recent months.

It is infinitely more important to deal with the problem than to try to deal with the perception. Solve the problem and the spin will look after itself. Similarly, there is nothing more lame than an Australian defence that points out that racism and policing problems exist in India, too.

So what?

This is not a point-scoring game. Further, however unjustified or out of date it is, Australia has throughout Asia a longstanding reputation for racism. We may chafe under the unfairness of this reputation, but if we want to deal with reality in Asia we have to understand that it is there. Stories that fit into this stereotype run very strongly.

There is little evidence that the Victorian Government has responded effectively. The Indians I have spoken to have noticed no increased police presence on Melbourne trains, with the exception of the Sydenham line. Certainly you can travel Melbourne's trains day and night for years and never see a police officer.

The Brumby Government seems to think announcements are a substitute for action. Remember all the fuss a year ago about the bashings of Melbourne taxi drivers? And the decisions on installing driver screens? Yesterday I walked along one of Melbourne's busiest taxi ranks and counted 18 cabs, not one with a driver screen.

This should be an elementary health and safety requirement.

Wretched Australian greed is in danger of killing our $15 billion education export industry.

At every point foreign students are mercilessly ripped off financially and given mediocre services at best. I would be hard-pressed in good conscience to recommend an Asian student come to an Australian university if they could afford an American one instead.

But of course our universities, at least the better ones, are not the heart of the problem. It is the vocational colleges run out of a couple of rooms in a city building that are the worst exploiters of foreign students.

Australia has done so well in attracting 400,000 students from Asia for several reasons, none of which has to do with the quality of the education. We are cheaper than the US or Britain, we are in a more sympathetic time zone and, until recently, we had the reputation for being safer. Most importantly, Australian higher education leads to a track for a permanent residency visa.

I've got no problem with that. It attracts a lot of students and gives us citizens down the track with Australian qualifications who can fill skills gaps and have long experience of Australia. But the system has become ramshackle and exploitative. We do not give value for money.

There's a lot we could do much better. How about a home visits scheme, where ordinary Australians invite foreign students for a weekend meal? After all, foreign students are not only dollars and cents, they're also human beings.

As I have made clear in my earlier post as well, Since the attacks were being conducted on a certain ethnic group, they can be and will be termed as racist.
 
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OK so clearly you dont know what you are talking about so let me break it down for you.

Relax freeman, you will find that "communist" is not aware about a lot of things he posts about. Having a logical debate with him is an exercise in futility.


Yes again, another thread has turned into a discussion on caste. Even if there is a caste system in India, does that make the attacks on students acceptable Communist? You do realise that these gangs who engage in "curry bashing" would not stop to make a distinction between a Bangladeshi, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan. We are all the same to them.

About racism in Australia, can any Australian member explain to me how this article was allowed to be published? -

Indians can learn from us | Herald Sun

An excerpt from the article -
*****************************************
Last week ungrateful Indians were burning effigies of Kevin Rudd, while in Iran Muslim suicide bombers were killing fellow Muslims in the run up to next week's elections there.

There is no shame in most of us sharing Western Christian values. And if you are feeling morally, educationally and culturally superior to such people this morning, it's probably because you are.
*******************************************
 
Yeah ditto that, unless you defame somebody by spreading false accusations, you can publish whatever you like.

My understanding of the article is that the author is trying to shift attention away from the topic at hand and is turning your gaze to other problems in the world.
A tactic often played out on these forum's

These attacks do make Australia self conscious and normal Australians do scratch their head when these assaults surface.
Does racism exist in Australia? Of course it does. I have to say though that Australia is not a racist country, there are no people here that have any more or less rights than anybody else.
 
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
There are no government controls on the media in the west. Eg USA, UK, Australia, NZ, Europe etc...
Its called freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech? What an alarming concept!:rolleyes:

Perhaps before replying you should have understood what i was trying to say. When did i talk of government controls?

Let me put it a different way - if a journalist writing in a respected paper in the US or in the UK says that Europeans are culturally, morally and educationally superior to Africans, what would happen to him?

What i want to know is why are such articles deemed acceptable by the Australian public?

Yeah ditto that, unless you defame somebody by spreading false accusations, you can publish whatever you like.

You can publish racist opinions and get away with it? Freedom of speech has limits.
 
Freedom of speech? What an alarming concept!:rolleyes:

Perhaps before replying you should have understood what i was trying to say. When did i talk of government controls?

Let me put it a different way - if a journalist writing in a respected paper in the US or in the UK says that Europeans are culturally, morally and educationally superior to Africans, what would happen to him?

What i want to know is why are such articles deemed acceptable by the Australian public?



You can publish racist opinions and get away with it? Freedom of speech has limits.


What i want to know is why are such articles deemed acceptable by the Australian public?

Deemed acceptable? I think we may be looking at the same coin from different sides. In Australia you dont try to deem if an article is acceptable for publication, you either agree or disagree with the statement made. The article is just a piece of social engineering from one persons view.


You can publish racist opinions and get away with it?


I must of missed it, can you please post the section of that article you think is racist?


Freedom of speech has limits

Nah freedom expression should not have limits IMO. Unless you are deliberately stating false accusations at somebody then everything is fair game. As we say over here, "if you dont like it then change the channel"
 
^ ^ ^

One point the author forgot to mention. Racism is basically secular, but caste is based on Hindutva ideology and identity. Caste will be there so far as Hinduism will exist. It makes the difference between racism and casteism. Thankfully, Islam, Christianity and even Judaism have no place for casteist discrimination or treatment.

What on earth is this ?? Racism is basically secular !! Where did you get this gem from ! Pray, where does religion based racialism come from then ?? History is awash with instances where races have used religion as a mean to destroy and take over another civilization.

Caste is another matter altogether. There has been an order of hierachy in all societies even in this present day. Call it casteism or by any other form, human to human discrimination will exist as long as their is civilization. There is no need to spin a religious angle to it. The christian crusades have killed more people than any other religious persuasion.
 
OK so clearly you dont know what you are talking about so let me break it down for you.

I am non Indian, I am white with English heritage, my ancestors moved to Australia over 150 years ago. And I dont not practise any religion.
You conspiracy theories about economic concessions, work permits, etc are just that. What you are reffering to is "trade" you know, its what makes the world go round.
Australian media silent on the issue?? you obviously dont live in Australia because you would know that you can not pick up a newspaper or see a news programs without the attacks being mentioned.
As far as the gangs are concerned, this is how Australian gangs work.
Most proffitable gang in Australia are the bikies, mainly of white origin, and mainly into the drug trade
The gangs that roam the streets are made up of ethnic backgrounds.
Mainly Lebonese, Turkish, Vietnamese/Chinese, Islanders(Maori, Somoa, etc) and White
I live 20 mins from one of the most recent attacks, St Albans. The streets there are controlled by Islanders and Lebonese gangs.
A lot of train and street assaults are caused by these gands, Australia has Asian and also Middle-Eastern police crime units now because it is becoming big problem. Most of the herion trade is now controlled by Vietnamese and Lebonese.
My other comment about australia haveing a good look in the mirror, is my view that Australia could probably do a better job in intergrating people of other cultures in our society and not wanting those people to look to join a gang.

Yes, you are correct as to defining how the problem occurs. Most crimes against Indians are correctly pointed out as crimes of opportunity.

To generalise, recently migrated Indians are some of the most aloof people at the moment. , totally devoid of 'situational awareness'. Sydney becomes a dangerous ,violent prone city at night especially at train stations (hopelessly managed by Cityrail).

While most people would be guarded and keep within populated and bright areas, I have seen Indians totally aloof , mobile permanently struck to their ears, going on nonchalently. If that is not inviting trouble, then what is !!

Australia now has an ethnic problem. Lets not kid ourselves. Indians are not being attacked by whites as is often potrayed but more so by various ethnic gangs.

In fact, whites are more likely to be victims as much as the Indians. If I have to generalise, the problem seems to be the descendants of Lebanese refugees in 1974, the Vietnamese refugees and the more recent Somalian refugees. Australias refugee policies is a sham and they seem to be attracting the worst scums of the world.

The other problem I see is the Maori and Pacific islander who come through the NZ backdoor. They along with the Aborgines have the highest incarceration rate in the country.

Apart from the above races, I dont think others join gangs so readily. Australia has people from all over the world, but you never hear about the Turkish gangsters, or the Irish criminals or Cambodians/Laos drug dealers or Sri Lankan tamil mafia. All these people have gone through hell as well in their countries but become model citizens in Australia

The other problem , I see is the inefficent police force (like every other NSW bureaucrat department) , lack of funding and police apathy creates a situation where crims have no fear.
 

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