Indian Railways vs. Chinese Railways...

[Keel]

Did you see the last photo, they are smiling..... when we are not worried about them, who are you to be worried? It is fine with us to live , like this.. what is your problem? More over those huts are bangladeshis who are given shelter by our great leaders for Vote bank.

Oh if that is so then it is up to you people
There are identical photos in Mumbai I think from where I cut and pasted it there in my post

 

[Screambowl]

May be India need a Lee Kuan Yew style leader, Modi likes Lee in some degree, dare and can put strict law and policy， but India is bigger and more complex, and even more complex than China and any other countries, it's hard to change some thing, even for Modi, I thingk he may feel like walking on wetlands， every step will meet many many barriers

No leader can change this.. because a leader cannot belong to all states at a one time and all religion same time. Not even communists. We experimented it west bengal and it remained underdeveloped for 30 years. But communism did well in kerela now they have 100% literacy rate.
You see, how complex this is. We are together touch wood, it is a miracle.

Oh if that is so then it is up to you people
There are identical photos in Mumbai I think from where I cut and pasted it there in my post

They are all part of those 1 million illegal B'deshis living in India. And these slum people earn more than a middle class people. But if they show the money they will have to pay tax hence standard of living is always kept down.

If you try to show high standard of living in India, you are inviting thieves. You will not understand India unless until you stay here for 20 years.

 

[anant_s]

Indian products are shit, and the less of them Sri Lanka has the better.

Why mate, M10 locos operating successfully on SL rail network are Indian Product (Made by Diesel Locomotive works, Varanasi, rated at 3100 HP (a derivative of WDM 3A class).

@AndrewJin mate would love to hear about Chinese freight locomotives and related system. I heard once from Siemens engineers (mobility division) that supplied DJ 1 class locos to CR. I guess you guys now manufacture those domestically. Here in India We are constructing several Dedicated Freight Corridors (first two of them Western and eastern are in advanced stages), so would love to hear how freight is being managed by Chinese railways

 

[Götterdämmerung]

yes, I am not staying here either even when I am getting an offer to give lectures in one of the TUs. I would rather go to US for work and then return to India.

I am very glad to hear this!

 

[Sommer]

@Screambowl
I don't think India can learn traffic system from America. America has a bigger land and a smaller population. Beside that, american Amry fights all over the world to make their oil price low. And also give that so many cars they have, they can fly or drive. That's why they don't want the HSR so well.
On the other side, China is a good example for India. Because they both have a huge population. But I doesn't mean India should built HSR now. I just think Inida should at least upgrade railway and station now.China begin to raise the speed of the train(upgrade the track) when chinese GDP per capita is only 700 dollors.
But the problem is, upgrade your track cost also many. If you don't spend the money now, sooner or later, it will delay you econmy growth.

 

[by78]

@Screambowl
I don't think India can learn traffic system from America. America has a bigger land and a smaller population. Beside that, american Amry fights all over the world to make their oil price low. And also give that so many cars they have, they can fly or drive. That's why they don't want the HSR so well.
On the other side, China is a good example for India. Because they both have a huge population. But I doesn't mean India should built HSR now. I just think Inida should at least upgrade railway and station now.China begin to raise the speed of the train(upgrade the track) when chinese GDP per capita is only 700 dollors.
But the problem is, upgrade your track cost also many. If you don't spend the money now, sooner or later, it will delay you econmy growth.

I don't think India can learn anything from anyone. Indians know it all, so why should they learn?

 

[by78]

If it was financial problem for us, I would be begging in Germany, and not paying 2000 euros to germany government and uni , monthly for fee.

So India can only afford 2000 euros per month?

 

[ashok321]

But communism did well in kerela now they have 100% literacy rate.
.

First of all, its NOT a case of 100% literacy. it is 93%

Second, it was not "communism" that brought forth this change. Because the second most literate Union territory is Lakshyadweep with 92% rate of literacy with no trace of communism. And on the higher grounds, look at the Skandinavian countries = All 100% literacy yet no communism.

Communism is a total failure in India as well as in the world. To relate literacy with communism is laughable.

Kerala's morbidity rate is higher than that of any other Indian state—118 (rural) and 88 (urban) per 1,000 people. The corresponding figures for all India = 55 and 54 per 1,000 respectively - why communism did not do it right?

 

[Sommer]

So India can only afford 2000 euros per month?

@Screambowl
Seriously, how can you capable to spend 2000 euros for fee in German as a Student? That's unbelievable,

 

[Keel]

yes, I am not staying here either even when I am getting an offer to give lectures in one of the TUs. I would rather go to US for work and then return to India.

i took photos of a dirty lake here.. ducks are inside and bottles of beer, and oil .too .. damn

Judging from your comments I dont see you'll be lecturing soon or best of luck to the students
Either Germany is not teaching you well or you refuse to be taught and learn
So from the first world to the very bottom of the third; it will be a tremendous cultural shock for you

The price is very high per ticket, even the rich people will avoid this, you are not aware of Indian mentality, we are stingy by nature, and this is the reason we care less about standard of living. Other wise market is full of investments and projects.

Indians have an ostrich mentality
When they dont see they dont believe. How they dont see these which are all evident all around? Like ostriches do.

Did you see the last photo, they are smiling..... when we are not worried about them, who are you to be worried? It is fine with us to live , like this.. what is your problem? More over those huts are bangladeshis who are given shelter by our great leaders for Vote bank. Make your own standard of convenience, not European.

If you had referred to this pic about "similing" then Indians are in much deeper trouble than we outsiders have thought The kids have yet to face the scorch trial of poverty At least they have shoes and socks on and off from school obviously.

But how can large hordes of people walked on and across the warping tracks like that?

Though I am not a big fan of the colonial Brits, but Indians have obviously ruined one of the best that the Brits have given to you - from riches to rags

Chinese Art Print Painting

 

[AndrewJin]

Why mate, M10 locos operating successfully on SL rail network are Indian Product (Made by Diesel Locomotive works, Varanasi, rated at 3100 HP (a derivative of WDM 3A class).
View attachment 213623

@AndrewJin mate would love to hear about Chinese freight locomotives and related system. I heard once from Siemens engineers (mobility division) that supplied DJ 1 class locos to CR. I guess you guys now manufacture those domestically. Here in India We are constructing several Dedicated Freight Corridors (first two of them Western and eastern are in advanced stages), so would love to hear how freight is being managed by Chinese railways

I'm not very interested into freight corridors, but as far as I know Chinese railway has the second largest freight volume after US(their freight locomotives are the best),

In China, railway freight transport is crucial(especially raw material, primary industrial products).
Along with expressway network and national highway network, they form a modern logistics system.
However, that's also why China is interested in HSR and intercity HSR, give more room to both passengers trains and freight trains(this was the primary reason 10 years ago).

In China, railway is mostly for long-distance passengers(>500-1000km for normal trains) and freight transport. And public bus and cargo trucks are for short distance.(expressways are also for long-distance freight transport as well). To separate them into separate lines are our main concern in the ongoing railway reforms.

LOCOMOTIVES
There are numeral cases of cooperation between China and European/American railway giants(Alstom, Siemens, bombardier, etc).
Like HXD1(10000kw),HXD3D(7200kw, 160km/h), HXD3A(under test, 9600kw). They are dedicated in designing more powerful locomotives which will operate on freight railway.

Heavy Haulage
The future tendency of railway around the world is HSR and heavy haulage, the latter one is now only in USA, China, Russia, Canada, Australia, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datong–Qinhuangdao_Railway （annual profit: 11.8 billion yuan）
one train=30000ton, the busiest freight line in the world

 

[anant_s]

I'm not very interested into freight corridors, but as far as I know Chinese railway has the second largest freight volume after US(their freight locomotives are the best),
View attachment 213649
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View attachment 213645
In China, railway freight transport is crucial(especially raw material, primary industrial products).
Along with expressway network and national highway network, they form a modern logistics system.
However, that's also why China is interested in HSR and intercity HSR, give more room to both passengers trains and freight trains(this was the primary reason 10 years ago).

In China, railway is mostly for long-distance passengers(>500-1000km for normal trains) and freight transport. And public bus and cargo trucks are for short distance.(expressways are also for long-distance freight transport as well). To separate them into separate lines are our main concern in the ongoing railway reforms.

LOCOMOTIVES
There are numeral cases of cooperation between China and European/American railway giants(Alstom, Siemens, bombardier, etc).
Like HXD1(10000kw, 120km/h),HXD3D(7200kw, 160km/h), HXD3A(under test, 9600kw). They are dedicated in designing more powerful locomotives which will operate on freight railway.

Heavy Haulage
The future tendency of railway around the world is HSR and heavy haulage, the latter one is now only in USA, China, Russia, Canada, Australia, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datong–Qinhuangdao_Railway （annual profit: 11.8 billion yuan）
one train=30000ton, the busiest freight line in the world
View attachment 213652 View attachment 213653

Thanks!
the reason i asked about freight is that China (given the huge volume of freight) is one country that is primarily going for electric traction (25 kV, 50 Hz) as against US that is producing mainline Co-Co Diesels (upto 6,000 HP). That is what we are trying in India (Most of our freight too moves on electric traction). We are trying to move towards IGBT based traction but huge portion of our loco fleet still works on DC motor Tap changer technology that limits that loco capability.
Given the projected freight hauling capacity required, two freight corridors are coming up and for them a tender has been floated for supply of 12,000 HP (~9000 KW) Bo-Bo+Bo-Bo locomotives to be manufactured in India. Axle loading for the tracks and wagons is also increased (upto 35 tons) and hopefully we will see these locos and trains rumbling by 2018.

 

[by78]

@Screambowl
Seriously, how can you capable to spend 2000 euros for fee in German as a Student? That's unbelievable,

His father was Vishwa Bandhu Gupta, a very corrupt technology minister in the previous Indian government. He took a lot of bribes. That's why Screambowl can afford his education. But I doubt he will learn anything because he already is an expert in everything.

 

[AndrewJin]

Thanks!
the reason i asked about freight is that China (given the huge volume of freight) is one country that is primarily going for electric traction (25 kV, 50 Hz) as against US that is producing mainline Co-Co Diesels (upto 6,000 HP). That is what we are trying in India (Most of our freight too moves on electric traction). We are trying to move towards IGBT based traction but huge portion of our loco fleet still works on DC motor Tap changer technology that limits that loco capability.
Given the projected freight hauling capacity required, two freight corridors are coming up and for them a tender has been floated for supply of 12,000 HP (~9000 KW) Bo-Bo+Bo-Bo locomotives to be manufactured in India. Axle loading for the tracks and wagons is also increased (upto 35 tons) and hopefully we will see these locos and trains rumbling by 2018.
View attachment 213654

Good move!
Is it a freight line or a mixed line(passenger and freight)?
Btw, it's not just about freight trains. Railway lines cannot be built anywhere, and control-access expressway network is also pivotal. In China, expressway and mixed lines(passenger&freight) are quite often congested. Too many freight trains and trucks,that's the reason why more infrastructure is needed here. Once built, once full, that's not a good sign in China.

 

[anant_s]

Good move!
Is it a freight line or a mixed line(passenger and freight)?
Btw, it's not just about freight trains. Railway lines cannot be built anywhere, and control-access expressway network is also pivotal. In China, expressway and mixed lines(passenger&freight) are quite often congested. Too many freight trains and trucks,that's the reason why more infrastructure is needed here. Once built, once full, that's not a good sign in China.

Dedicated freight lines, no passenger traffic.
The trouble here is that the Golden Quadrilateral (Meaning the lines joining National capital New Delhi with three big port cities of Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata is operating way above its saturation limit and the situation gets complicated by the fact that Railways also has to operate passenger trains on them. This creates two problems, First the speed on line gets limited by slowest moving freight train on the section (if i remember correctly, national average speed of freight train in India about 28-32 kmph). This leads to reduction in speed of passenger trains to about 140 kph max (160 kph in one case) which in turn increases the passenger travel time.
Secondly, the load we can put on one freight train is also limited, leading to lower throughput. Average wight f one freight train in India is approximately 3800 Tons as against 9,000-10,000 MT seen in other countries.
Therefor the logic of DFC is that it will not only free the existing tracks for passenger trains that will allow increase in average speed (similar to one table you gave in one of ur post) but will also allow heavier trains to move quickly, increasing in revenue growth.