Indian Rafale Jets Would Have Been Useless Against Chinese Airforce – Russia Experts

[beijingwalker]

ASIA PACIFIC
Indian Rafale Jets Would Have Been Useless Against Chinese Airforce – Russia Experts
July 10, 2020
By EurAsian Times Desk
Rafale jets would have been useless against the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF) – Russian aviation experts have claimed. Rafale fighter jets belong to the 4 ++ generation would not have been of much use had an aerial conflict broken out in Ladakh again the PLAAF.

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As reported by EurAsian Times, India and China had been engaged in a brutal conflict in the Himalayan region of Ladakh. Troops of both countries have exchanged blows and even lost soldiers in the conflict that began more than a month ago

Keeping in mind the situation in Ladakh, France said that it would accelerate the delivery of Rafale fighter jets to India. Aviation experts believe that the arrival of Rafale fighter jets will significantly boost the combat capability of the Indian Air Force (IAF). However, according to Russian experts, who did not wish to be named, the French fighter would not help India much incase the conflict turns hot.

The astronomical cost of Rafale fighter jets is one of the reasons the French 4++ fighter jet would not help India. In the deal struck with Paris, New Delhi agreed to purchase 36 Rafale Jets. The total cost of the deal was an estimated Rs 59,000 crore with each jet costing around Rs 1,646 crore.

The cost of a Rafale is about three times higher than the Chinese J-20 stealth fighter jets. In other words, for 36 French-made Rafale fighters that will appear in the Indian Air Force, China can respond with three times as many of its fifth-generation J-20 fighters – for the same money.

Even if, in some ways, the characteristics of the Chinese combat aircraft lag behind the French 4 ++ fighter jet, then the Indian air force could get overwhelmed by what is called “capable of crushing by quantity”.

And the cost is not the only reason why Rafale jets would not help India much. Compared to another Chinese jet – J-16 (an analogue of the Russian Su-35) which Beijing is also using in its airforce, the Rafale jets will find it extremely challenging to outgun the Russian Su-35s operated by the Chinese.

The maximum speed of the Rafale jet is about Mach 1.8 and the J-16 is Mach 2.2. The Rafale’s practical ceiling is also lower than the J-16s. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese J-16s aka Russian Su-35s are far superior to the French combat aircraft.

Even if the IAF was to deploy all 36 of its newly acquired jets, the technical superiority would still be on the side of China, claims the Russian expert.

The IAF has been on high alert in Ladakh and is closely monitoring all Chinese activity near the Line of Control. As reported by EurAsian Times, New Delhi has inked a deal with Moscow to buy 33 new fighter aircraft including 12 Su-30MKIs and 21 MiG-29s along with up-gradation of 59 MiG-29s. The addition and up-gradation of jets have been approved to strengthen India’s air power.

The air defence systems of both the Indian Army and the IAF have been deployed in Ladakh to prevent any misadventure by the Chinese Air Force fighter jets or the People’s Liberation Army choppers there.

https://eurasiantimes.com/indian-ra...less-against-chinese-airforce-russia-experts/

 

[beijingwalker]

The cost of a Rafale is about three times higher than the Chinese J-20 stealth fighter jets. In other words, for 36 French-made Rafale fighters that will appear in the Indian Air Force, China can respond with three times as many of its fifth-generation J-20 fighters – for the same money.

Got ripped off again? How come a 3rd Gen jet can cost this much?

 

[IblinI]

nothing would have changed as long as they don't ditch this "Game changer" mentality.

 

[Avatar]

Got ripped off again? How come a 3rd Gen jet can cost this much?

I wonder how you have so much free time to be spewing out these trashy threads

By your same logic, PLAF can easily defeat USAF and F-22 raptors are useless against China because they cost 6x more than J 20.

 

[BHarwana]

One thing I always wonder is why there so much hype in India about Rafale Jets. I mean what extra do they bring to IAF which is more capable than what rest of the world has. Yes they are better than the existing inventory of IAF but in regards to rest of the world what is edge they have?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

By your same logic, PLAF can easily defeat USAF and F-22 raptors are useless against China because they cost 6x more than J 20.

This is fake news. I agree, this is not good logic.

It is true that nobody knows the actual cost of the J-20. It could indeed be very expensive. However, unit cost isn't determined by quality, but by efficiency. A highly efficient, automated process can easily produce fighters of both higher quality and lower cost. And China is a leader in automation. Meanwhile, France is not known for its strength in industrial automation. They don't have a world class semiconductor fab, they don't have any industrial companies of note other than Thales and Alstom.

The end result could indeed be an inferior, yet high priced plane. I mean, Rafale costs the same as F-35, but Rafale has nowhere near the capabilities as F-35. US is also well known for industrial strength and the proof is in its world class semiconductor and machinery companies.

 

[IblinI]

One thing I always wonder is why there so much hype in India about Rafale Jets. I mean what extra do they bring to IAF which is more capable than what rest of the world has. Yes they are better than the existing inventory of IAF but in regards to rest of the world what is edge they have?

Just like when a baby rarely getting a new toy, a man getting a new car, they would like to brag.
for a comparatively richer man, where he is getting a new car every year, he would think it is normal.

 

[beijingwalker]

By your same logic, PLAF can easily defeat USAF and F-22 raptors are useless against China because they cost 6x more than J 20.

Not my logic, those are the assessment of Russian experts, no one knows Indian military capabilities better than Russians.

 

[Figaro]

One thing I always wonder is why there so much hype in India about Rafale Jets. I mean what extra do they bring to IAF which is more capable than what rest of the world has. Yes they are better than the existing inventory of IAF but in regards to rest of the world what is edge they have?

Rafael easily has the best BVR capabilities in the entire Indian airforce

I wonder how you have so much free time to be spewing out these trashy threads

By your same logic, PLAF can easily defeat USAF and F-22 raptors are useless against China because they cost 6x more than J 20.

I think he is referring to the 242 million dollar unit cost which by any means is extremely expensive. I have no idea why the Indian gov agreed to such ridiculous procurement cost ... are they that desperate to get the Rafael?

 

[BHarwana]

Just like when a baby getting a new toy, a man getting a new car, they would like to brag.

I understand those things but it is not just domestic Indian population but their Air force which is showing such attitude. Rafale is a previous generation Jet world will have 6th Gen by the time India will acquire Rafale.
I have given it a lot of thinking & in my opinion India plans to use these 36 Jets to train it's pilots & get familiar with latest tech which other countries in the region already have. Indian pilots were flying obsolete jets & obsolete weapon systems which world had already ditched.

 

[IblinI]

I understand those things but it is not just domestic Indian population but their Air force which is showing such attitude. Rafale is a previous generation Jet world will have 6th Gen by the time India will acquire Rafale.
I have given it a lot of thinking & in my opinion India plans to use these 36 Jets to train it's pilots & get familiar with latest tech which other countries in the region already have. Indian pilots were flying obsolete jets & obsolete weapon systems which world had already ditched.

5th gen ofc but 6th gen will only be available after mid 2035,early 2040.
They will have to get their hand on the 5th gen first before engaging a stealth plane,China had plans against enemy stealth jet but most of them re-writen/useless after we get our hands on J20.
Stealth, Anti-stealth is a whole systematic thing that required a huge amount of resources/money.

 

[Dungeness]

India is being dragged into an arm race that it can't afford. This "penny wise pound foolish" country just can't see what it's got itself into for the land they've never owned. I don't think they ever had a full retrospect of the 1962 border war.

 

[Tumba]

Existing inventory is more than adequate whatever PLAAF can mount against India...

Tibetan platue doesnt itself a big challenge when it comes to keep a working squadron due to altitude most of the fighters will work in non efficient fashion... India has plenty of bases near to Himalayan plane just 100-200 kms from Tibbet border ..

Rafale can always work well but IAF has covered its flanks...

J-20 is basically a less manoeuvrable stealth strike platform created to fly low and launch anti ship missiles at American Navy thr concept doesn't work in Himalayas... if fielded it can be countered with passive sensors specifically IRST.

Only way a country can win in Himalaya is to occupy strategic passes and dug deep for few years nothing can unmount that nor rafale nor J-20 ... specially when both the forces have no limit of use of any resources...

India from decades deploys close to 300k soldiers near Tibetan border plenty of them mountain people and many are Tibetan ...
PLA can not gain that kind of natural talent all of a sudden biding time is different but India basically live thr not Hans whose original homeland is 3000 kms away... nor tibet nor east tukmenistan is Han territory

 

[Figaro]

5th gen ofc but 6th gen will only be available after mid 2035,early 2040.
They will have to get their hand on the 5th gen first before engaging a stealth plane,China had plans against enemy stealth jet but most of them re-writen/useless after we get our hands on J20.
Stealth, Anti-stealth is a whole systematic thing that required a huge amount of resources/money.

The only realistic fifth generation fighter India could lay its hands on is the Su-57 (which is the same fighter they left a couple of years back). And I really don't see it fairing well against the J-20 in air to air combat and neither do the Indians, otherwise they wouldn't have pulled out of the FGFA. India's best bet was to buy the F-35 but that option is off the table due to the S-400 purchase.

J-20 is basically a less manoeuvrable stealth strike platform created to fly low and launch anti ship missiles at American Navy thr concept doesn't work in Himalayas... if fielded it can be countered with passive sensors specifically IRST.

The J-20 is not a strike aircraft dude ... please read the below article to understand what it was designed for. You will see the strike/interceptor role is complete bs.
https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-stealth-fighter-its-time-to-discuss-j-20s-agility/

 

[IblinI]

The only realistic fifth generation fighter India could lay its hands on is the Su-57 (which is the same fighter they left a couple of years back).

They really should invest in Su-57, which might come up a better plane by now, putting feets on the ground is never their thing, I guess.