Indian Rafale Jets Would Have Been Useless Against Chinese Airforce – Russia Experts

[Tumba]

Lol so now it is a Chinese knockoff? First you claim the J-20 is dedicated for a strike row, then you claim it is unstealthy, and now you are saying its a Chinese knockoff? Why are you introducing a bunch of red herrings? Why don't you defend what you said earlier about it being a strike fighter? Also if you know what a luneberg lens is then isn't its detection inevitable?

yaa I again repeat the amalgamation of Mig 1.44 russian abandoned project and stolen F-35 documents chinese came up with a poor stealth knock-off with no engine to match its intended purpose of striking US navy in pacific...
Chinese desperately waiting for russians to provide them some knowhow to thr new engines which russians are still working with but without any success...

and again for the hundredth time

Radar detection is one thing
And Infrared detection is completely another thing

 

[beijingwalker]

Russian planes?

Those 20 odd stored Mig-29s are here to jack up numbers in cheap and 12 MKI will be licensed produced to take care of MkI attrition.. the number of MkI will stay same as per contract of 280...

IAF wont buy any more russian planes it will be domestic or west from now on, Russians are way behind west on fighter manufacturing but still ahead of chinese though lol

Are you serious??

India to buy 33 Russian fighter jets for $2.43bn
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/india-buy-33-russian-fighter-jets-243bn-200703045842841.html

 

[Mighty Lion]

Rafale can not even beat JF-17
https://eurasiantimes.com/jf-17-vs-...serious-threat-to-indian-rafale-fighter-jets/

US intelligence sharing has exposed reality of PL-15 to India. US intel docs showed that PL-15 much inferior to Meteor and at par with AIM-120D at best.
But since it is roughly equal AIM-120D US is developing AIM-260 to outmatch PL-15 just like Meteor.

 

[Figaro]

yaa I again repeat the amalgamation of Mig 1.44 russian abandoned project and stolen F-35 documents chinese came up with a poor stealth knock-off with no engine to match its intended purpose of striking US navy in pacific...
Chinese desperately waiting for russians to provide them some knowhow to thr new engines which russians are still working with but without any success...

LOL ... just because the J-20 has canards it is a copy of the Mig 2.44? The stupidity of you statements seem endless. The stolen F-35 documents may have had some role although I highly doubt it actually had an significant influence on the J-20. Regarding engines, perhaps you need to look up Chinese developments more to see that the latest J-20 production variants are powered by Chinese WS-10 engines. Meanwhile, has Indian engine technology become so advanced that now the Kaveri has become invisible? Because as far as I can tell, it is no where to be seen at all ...

and again for the hundredth time

Radar detection is one thing
And Infrared detection is completely another thing

Sorry I missed this earlier due to the incoherence of your statements. I only have one expression for this new Indian IRST claim :

 

[Mighty Lion]

Do you even know how jamming against AESA works?

Spectra specialises in jamming AESA.

 

[Tumba]

Are you serious??

India to buy 33 Russian fighter jets for $2.43bn
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/india-buy-33-russian-fighter-jets-243bn-200703045842841.html

yaa thats wat I written these r not some new strategic acquisitions

 

[beijingwalker]

yaa thats wat I written these r not some new strategic acquisitions

$2.43bn sounds nothing to you, you must be so rich...

 

[zhxy]

yaa I again repeat the amalgamation of Mig 1.44 russian abandoned project and stolen F-35 documents chinese came up with a poor stealth knock-off with no engine to match its intended purpose of striking US navy in pacific...
Chinese desperately waiting for russians to provide them some knowhow to thr new engines which russians are still working with but without any success...

and again for the hundredth time

Radar detection is one thing
And Infrared detection is completely another thing

If that is true then:

1.The United States and Russia have been so stupid, they don't know how to stop China. (Where are CIA and KGB?)

2.India and other countries are a hundred times more stupid because they don't know how to steal and spy.

 

[Figaro]

If that is true then:

1.The United States and Russia have been so stupid, they don't know how to stop China. (Where are CIA and KGB?)

2.India and other countries are a hundred times more stupid because they don't know how to steal and spy.

Just like the ignorants who claim the Chinese WS-10 is a copy of the AL-31 ... I think the heightened insecurity of many Indians towards recent Chinese developments really shows that the military gap is widening even faster than the economic gap.

 

[Tumba]

LOL ... just because the J-20 has canards it is a copy of the Mig 2.44? The stupidity of you statements seem endless. The stolen F-35 documents may have had some role although I highly doubt it actually had an significant influence on the J-20. Regarding engines, perhaps you need to look up Chinese developments more to see that the latest J-20 production variants are powered by Chinese WS-10 engines. Meanwhile, has Indian engine technology become so advanced that now the Kaveri has become invisible? Because as far as I can tell, it is no where to be seen at all ...

Sorry I missed this earlier due to the incoherence of your statements. I only have one expression for this new Indian IRST claim :

Haha chinese engines which even a fully dependent state like pakistan is refusing for a chinese plane, see this is your reality as per Us mil reports your chinese engines work at best for 800 hours after that needs to be replaced or at best a overhaul..

And let me tell u other thing in kaveri and your ws series was tested almost same time in russia over Il-76 test bed kaveri was successful and chinese knockoff again failed ... but gotta give chinese govt credit to continue with work,

and its not a new claim Retired Indian military veterans already told in detail about your fat pig being detected again and again by MKI using both active and passive sensors and even if J-20 was using training RCS regime using lunebergs still J-20 doesnt have all aspect stealth

If that is true then:

1.The United States and Russia have been so stupid, they don't know how to stop China. (Where are CIA and KGB?)

2.India and other countries are a hundred times more stupid because they don't know how to steal and spy.

Well ruskies got good money for thr abandon project and even if that was not an intentional leak by USA for F-35 still see what u have ended up nothing close to american stealth planes despite pouring so much money

 

[Figaro]

Haha chinese engines which even a fully dependent state like pakistan is refusing for a chinese plane, see this is your reality as per Us mil reports your chinese engines work at best for 800 hours after that needs to be replaced or at best a overhaul..

And let me tell u other thing in kaveri and your ws series was tested almost same time in russia over Il-76 test bed kaveri was successful and chinese knockoff again failed ... but gotta give chinese govt credit to continue with work,

and its not a new claim Retired Indian military veterans already told in detail about your fat pig being detected again and again by MKI using both active and passive sensors and even if J-20 was using training RCS regime using lunebergs still J-20 doesnt have all aspect stealth

The reports with the reliability are all extremely dated ... the WS-10 engine achieved the final reliability objective back in 2016. It is true at the beginning there were a lot of issues with production quality but they have since been ironed out.

Anyways, please tell me where the Kaveri is? I haven't heard about it in ages ... did it really gain an invisibility sheath? If so, would India be kind enough to share its invisibility technology with the rest of the world?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

canards in J-20 is to give good agility in sub sonic speeds and yes the internal bomb way will be used to load next gen chinese anti ship missiles...

question of RCS doesnt come here ... J-20 is detected by MKI IRST multiple times ...

J-20 is not a match to either F-22 or even F-35 ... chinese doesnt even have a engine to match forget about sensor fusion tech that west has mastered in last 3 decades.. Rafale can not only take care of J-20 but in many situations can assure a easy kill in Himalayan terrain

nobody does combat maneuvers at supersonic speeds. USAF planes all maneuver at subsonic speeds to maintain tight turn radius. See US military publication pg. 46: https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf

"Above 330 KCAS, turn radius increases slightly as max G is obtained (440 KCAS)"

KCAS = knots calibrated airspeed, equivalent to 815 km/hr. Mach 1 is 1235 km/hr.

IRST tracking is short distance, typically 50-100 km at best. India also doesn't even manufacture its own IRST systems, while China does. Radar tracking is long range, with large AESA radars such as the one on the J-20 capable of tracking high RCS targets like the Su-30 from hundreds of km away.

@Figaro this is the difference in mentality between countries with stealth and countries without stealth. I remember that back in the 90's, Chinese fans would be talking about how to use J-8 and Su-27 to counter F-22. They used the exact same arguments as the Indians are now. Once PLAAF got their hands on J-20, they realized all that was mostly BS and that F-22 would have been devastating. PLAAF isn't even building regular J-10 and Su-30 anymore, they are only building AESA 4th gen fighters and J-20.

 

[Figaro]

nobody does combat maneuvers at supersonic speeds. USAF planes all maneuver at subsonic speeds to maintain tight turn radius.

See US military publication pg. 46: https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf

"Above 330 KCAS, turn radius increases slightly as max G is obtained (440 KCAS)"

KCAS = knots calibrated airspeed, equivalent to 815 km/hr. Mach 1 is 1235 km/hr.

IRST tracking is short distance, typically 50-100 km at best. India also doesn't even manufacture its own IRST systems, while China does. Radar tracking is long range, with large AESA radars such as the one on the J-20 capable of tracking high RCS targets like the Su-30 from hundreds of km away.

This guy claims that the MKI saw the J-20 LOL ... first the Indians claimed their radar saw the J-20 and now the IRST.

 

[Tumba]

The reports are all dated with the reliability are all extremely dated ... the WS-10 engine achieved the final reliability objective back in 2016. It is true at the beginning there were a lot of issues with production quality but they have been ironed out.

Anyways, please tell me where the Kaveri is? I haven't heard about it in ages ... did it really gain an invisibility sheath?

I wont be so sure about so called reliability haha, a jet engine is not a rocket engine 800 hours to overhaul no one will buy that,

Kaveri is working fine for the targets it was aimed for when at beginning... but with time the requirements are changed so thrust will be increased with Snechma’s who knows with just 800 million investment India can place a engine thats good enough I say

This guy claims that the MKI saw the J-20 LOL ... first the Indians claimed their radar saw the J-20 and now the IRST.

Yaa ur fat pig is not some magic bullet ...

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This guy claims that the MKI saw the J-20 LOL ... first the Indians claimed their radar saw the J-20 and now the IRST.

Gave you a brief update as well.