Indian private army chief shot dead

[RAJPUTAANA]

First of all people discussing here the topic are totally unaware of the ground realities of the 80's and 90's...
There was not Class struggle or, ideology struggle. And Maoists/Naxals were also not one group. There were many groups among Naxals and all of them used to fight among themselves. We used to get severed heads of Dalits on the river bed whom other Dalits had killed. Everything back then was politically motivated. I myself, was involved in getting two such groups of my area together. They compromised with each other and my area is peaceful now.

However this does not mean that Private Senas were angels. When the killings continue in cycle, it is very difficult to find the actual culprit. All of this becomes reactionary.

Commentators here are probably not aware that apart from Ranveer Sena , Brahmarshi Sena , the biggest and probably most violent answer to Naxals were given by Muslims. Whenever Muslims attacked Naxals, Bullets were rarely used. They used to call it wastage of money. Now can anybody tell why were Muslims fighting the Naxals if it was a pure caste struggle..?

Situation back then was pretty screwed up as the state was being governed by a master screwer . Everybody was killing everybody. Crime had become an industry and it still is. People used to declare themselves naxals just to earn levy from the contractors.

Situation has been improving for last few years and no war is being fought there. Maoists are present in many districts of Bihar. But thats not because of any class struggle. Its because of the failure of state in not providing the basic facilities. If and when people get an opportunity to employment, all this menace will go away. People are primarily busy in earning their livelihood.

and that MASTER SCREWER was the first to jump the gun even yesterday......... i hate him

 

[53fd]

RIP to the dead.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Did any indian saw ISI hand in this murder yet?
Did they find the "ISI" engraved bullet? or
ISI printed on the cartridge? or
ISI printed instruction manual "How to shoot" found near the crime scene?

hurry up guys, don't disappoint us.

 

[harpoon]

Your remark is amusing. It also makes me sad. It seems that even observing that Dalits are oppressed is an illegal statement. It also seems that it is illegal not because of lack of evidence, not because of poor interpretation of that evidence, but because you are 'forward caste' and in your personal experience, you have not yourself ill-treated any Dalit.

Let us take your very intelligent observation and turn it on its head.

Just because an individual German picked at random happened not to have personally attacked a Jew, or rounded them up andsent them to concentration camp, or turned on the Zyklon-B taps, does it mean that the holocaust never took place?

True..AFAIK 3 generations of my family did nothing wrong to anybody including Dalits and have made our living through honest means. Thats reason enough for me for not bowing down to any thugs and fight them if the police is not competent enough to provide security for me.

Did any indian saw ISI hand in this murder yet?
Did they find the "ISI" engraved bullet? or
ISI printed on the cartridge? or
ISI printed instruction manual "How to shoot" found near the crime scene?

hurry up guys, don't disappoint us.

Actually they are more interested in blasting bombs in market places and hotels.

 

[Joe Shearer]

First of all people discussing here the topic are totally unaware of the ground realities of the 80's and 90's..

First of all, every generalization is an exaggeration, including yours and mine. One of the reasons why not much of the ground realities of the 80s and 90s is that documenting it would have been a massive task, well beyond the span of attention of the most patient reader here. You sound as if you know at least the local situation in Bihar, presumably with specific reference to the northern districts. You will remember that the situation in the 80s was the outcome of the debacle that the Naxals suffered in West Bengal in the mid-70s, and their loss of their strongholds in Debra and Gopiballavpore. It was then that the central organization split into half-a-dozen groups, each of which had its own geographical strength. Today's coalescence into CPI(ML), Maoist Coordination Centre and People's War Group took years of patient undercover work by dedicated cadres to bring about.

It is probable that the group, or groups, you mention belonged to the MCC. But there were factions even among them.

I have been following them from the time in 1968-1969 that they nearly took over Kolkata and murdered in excess of a hundred policemen in their terror campaign.

There was not Class struggle or, ideology struggle.

This has been mentioned before in the present thread, more than once.

And Maoists/Naxals were also not one group. There were many groups among Naxals and all of them used to fight among themselves.

See above. If you want a full list of factions, name a district. Things differed from district to district, as you must already know.

However this does not mean that Private Senas were angels. When the killings continue in cycle, it is very difficult to find the actual culprit. All of this becomes reactionary

This is true not just in Bihar in the 80s and 90s, but in every situation where the terrorists get an upper hand.

Commentators here are probably not aware that apart from Ranveer Sena , Brahmarshi Sena , the biggest and probably most violent answer to Naxals were given by Muslims. Whenever Muslims attacked Naxals, Bullets were rarely used. They used to call it wastage of money. Now can anybody tell why were Muslims fighting the Naxals if it was a pure caste struggle..?

Is there a prize for the correct answer?

No, seriously, there are some who remember that coalition politics then demanded the inclusion of Muslims to balance other large factions. They were a factor in the political equation along with the others. Perhaps you want us to say that the Muslim leaders had to demonstrate their ability to deliver votes, to milk the opportunities and to hold others at bay. The Naxals could not be allowed to run unchecked, so in several districts there were particularly bitter clashes.

Situation back then was pretty screwed up as the state was being governed by a master screwer . Everybody was killing everybody. Crime had become an industry and it still is. People used to declare themselves naxals just to earn levy from the contractors.

Perhaps you should introduce our Pakistani friends to Rangdari Tax.

Incidentally, this happens in AP as well.

Situation has been improving for last few years and no war is being fought there. Maoists are present in many districts of Bihar. But thats not because of any class struggle. Its because of the failure of state in not providing the basic facilities. If and when people get an opportunity to employment, all this menace will go away. People are primarily busy in earning their livelihood.

It's nice to know that you read the entire previous correspondence, word by word......

 

[RAJPUTAANA]

Did any indian saw ISI hand in this murder yet?
Did they find the "ISI" engraved bullet? or
ISI printed on the cartridge? or
ISI printed instruction manual "How to shoot" found near the crime scene?

hurry up guys, don't disappoint us.

a simple reply........" WE are not U"

 

[Joe Shearer]

Did any indian saw ISI hand in this murder yet?
Did they find the "ISI" engraved bullet? or
ISI printed on the cartridge? or
ISI printed instruction manual "How to shoot" found near the crime scene?

hurry up guys, don't disappoint us.

If you can participate in a conversation with some dignity and self-respect, you are welcome to comment.

What you wrote was crass.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Did any indian saw ISI hand in this murder yet?
Did they find the "ISI" engraved bullet? or
ISI printed on the cartridge? or
ISI printed instruction manual "How to shoot" found near the crime scene?

hurry up guys, don't disappoint us.

NO They are Saint's

 

[Mech]

True..AFAIK 3 generations of my family did nothing wrong to anybody including Dalits and have made our living through honest means. Thats reason enough for me for not bowing down to any thugs and fight them if the police is not competent enough to provide security for me.



Actually they are more interested in blasting bombs in market places and hotels.

Sir, please do take the time to read previous posts. The social equality and medical infrastructure of Kerala is not representative of rest of India. You and I both hail from that state and therefore do not have the experience or the insight to make broad statements about the Maoist insurgency or the plight of dalits. There are genuine grievances that require concentrated attention by the government and the civil society. Killing them en-masse is not a solution. If the state kills its own civilians then what exactly are we fighting for ?

There is a huge disinformation campaign up north. Neutralize the elite perpetrators and upper caste "armies" rather than the poor victims and the un-informed kids.

You know, what joe shearer says is very true. Oppression of the lower caste dalits in India are real. Just because it no longer happens in Kerala, it doesn't mean that its any less real. Two years ago, i went on a trip to visit the medical mission fields of Marthoma ( Syrian christian churches ) across India. Some of the scenes i witnessed were unbelievably horrible.

Its when i realized, that India outside of Kerala and maybe Goa is really just a very very sad place. Despite our retarded state politics and associated BS, Keralites in general live a very protected life. What we have achieved in our state ( literacy and social equality ) whether by hook or crook, must be spread to the neighboring states and eventually to the rest of India.

Very true. Kerala is so, so different, it is sometimes shocking in contrast. There are two or three other places in India with a similar ambience, but....

You mentioned medical missions. You must have noticed the mind-numbing contrast between medical treatment, the physicians, the medical technicians and the general population's approach to health-care within Kerala and outside (I used to collaborate with a Church organization promoting health insurance for the poorest of the poor).

 

[harpoon]

Sir, please do take the time to read previous posts. The social equality and medical infrastructure of Kerala is not representative of rest of India. You and I both hail from that state and therefore do not have the experience or the insight to make broad statements about the Maoist insurgency or the plight of dalits. There are genuine grievances that require concentrated attention by the government and the civil society. Killing them en-masse is not a solution. If the state kills its own civilians then what exactly are we fighting for ?

There is a huge disinformation campaign up north. Neutralize the elite perpetrators and upper caste "armies" rather than the poor victims and the un-informed kids.

So it is okay that they kill jawans in cold blood like in Dantewada, or blast railway stations, derail trains, kill Govt contractors building roads etc etc.

Yes, I know that Kerala is not a representative of the rest of India, but does that mean one has to take arms and take land forcibly away. Its already been explained in this thread that not all Bhumihaars are rich and not all landowners are FC. Its the job of the Govt to provide justice, not some armed thugs. If we continue to justify Maoists like this, India is no better than some banana republic where local warlords is law of the land.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Killing them en-masse is not a solution. If the state kills its own civilians then what exactly are we fighting for ?

I agree with this part. You can still win their heart by development, Jobs and good living standard..Killing in Mass is not solution for long term. I.e Many Muslim in India now love their country because they know that government is capable for providing jobs and basic necessaries on equal bases. Even on High Position, You can't deny the contribution/Role of Muslims. In engineering field, Bollywood or other sectors. But if Political parties comes into parliament on the bases of Religion , Hinduism/Muslim/Sikhs/White people. This can deprive other religion, It means you are creating violent group and they starts violent campaign to get their right.
It is understood that western countries were never with this Region even 1900s, they funded in this region, Created violence and hate between hindu/Muslims/ Sikhs and christian and they used partition for their own benefit.
Still there are some people who believes on upper and lower caste which is dangerous for the society.

 

[Joe Shearer]

So it is okay that they kill jawans in cold blood like in Dantewada, or blast railway stations, derail trains, kill Govt contractors building roads etc etc.

It has got to the point where you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing.

No, it is NOT okay that they kill jawans in cold blood like in Dantewada, or blast railway stations, derail trains, kill Government contractors building roads, etc., etc.

Nobody said so, nobody is saying so.

You should know a little more about Dantewada, about the state of Bastar, about the tribals who lived there, and how they were raped by carpetbaggers from the Chhatisgarh community. You should know how land earmarked for tribals was sold behind their backs, with active collaboration of non-tribal politicians interested in the land grab. You should know how exploitation of forest resources by the non-tribals reached levels where the tribals who had everything landed up with nothing.

If you have no knowledge, no information about the situation there other than newspaper headlines, read B. D. Sharma, one of the most upright administrators that the region had, and learn from him how the tribals were impoverished in their own land. Read about how they were shot down when they surrounded the palace of their hereditary prince, and how when decades later, they protested peacefully against encroachment and alienation, again they got lathis and bullets. Find out how Salwa Judum really works, and what it means.

Please don't blow off steam before you find out the facts. I am sick of the greatest law-breakers in the land suddenly discovering the Indian Penal Code and cowering behind it when they start getting as good as they gave. Two sides contributed to the breaking of the law, not just one, and both need to be controlled with a firm hand and brought under the rule of law, not one.

Yes, I know that Kerala is not a representative of the rest of India, but does that mean one has to take arms and take land forcibly away. Its already been explained in this thread that not all Bhumihaars are rich and not all landowners are FC. Its the job of the Govt to provide justice, not some armed thugs. If we continue to justify Maoists like this, India is no better than some banana republic where local warlords is law of the land.

No, it does not mean that land has to be taken away forcibly, and it also means that you need not go by the words of one party to the dispute and swallow it wholesale. Do you expect a Bhumihar - or a Rajput, or a Brahmin - to tell you that they are blood-sucking oppressors?

It is precisely because these thugs converted Bihar and UP and most of the BIMARU into a banana republic that Seshan's tough stand on conducting elections was needed. Before that, EVERY vote in Bihar was delivered from a captured voting booth. What do you call that, a pumpkin republic?

 

[harpoon]

Please don't blow off steam before you find out the facts. I am sick of the greatest law-breakers in the land suddenly discovering the Indian Penal Code and cowering behind it when they start getting as good as they gave. Two sides contributed to the breaking of the law, not just one, and both need to be controlled with a firm hand and brought under the rule of law, not one.

Yes I know you have some grudge against FCs but let me remind you about your earlier statement:

First of all, every generalization is an exaggeration, including yours and mine.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes I know you have some grudge against FCs but let me remind you about your earlier statement:

You know nothing. That is not a generalisation but my considered opinion. I happen to be from one of the so-called forward castes.

It is not prejudice but just disgust at the smug hypocrisy with which some people regard their own positions of privilege, and talk about those who are less privileged.

 

[fd24]

You know nothing. That is not a generalisation but my considered opinion. I happen to be from one of the so-called forward castes.

It is not prejudice but just disgust at the smug hypocrisy with which some people regard their own positions of privilege, and talk about those who are less privileged.

This is what its all about - well said Joe. Treat people as you would expect to be treated.