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[Chronos]

No you do not. What you require is greater number of socially aware folks. Less of the machined drones working 9-5 desperate for change.

@Oscar. And thus it came to be in our land of Bharat. That the poor and wretched must once again save the upper classes from their own consuming zeal.

And from becoming the pawn of their inter religious violence while the armchair religious warriors can only come to the internet and talk smack about Hindus, Muslims etc..

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar. And thus it came to be in our land of Bharat. That the poor and wretched must once again save the upper classes from their own consuming zeal.

That is the story of the entire subcontinent since our times old. Some people cite education but I am not sure if education was ever the solution to the problems of the subcontinent. All it does it create worker bees for a higher degree of work...they protest, they whine.. but other than that they do very little different.

 

[Armstrong]

That is the story of the entire subcontinent since our times old. Some people cite education but I am not sure if education was ever the solution to the problems of the subcontinent. All it does it create worker bees for a higher degree of work...they protest, they whine.. but other than that they do very little different.

Schooling is not the same as Education !

 

[Chronos]

That is the story of the entire subcontinent since our times old. Some people cite education but I am not sure if education was ever the solution to the problems of the subcontinent. All it does it create worker bees for a higher degree of work...they protest, they whine.. but other than that they do very little different.

chup. Pakistani ISI agent

What you know about our country huh? it is casteism that has destroyed our country. These low caste people, always asking for handouts. They are the ones always using caste as a weapon.

These Dalits need to get over untouchability.

But I will never get over 1000 years of Muzzie rule. Neither 200 years of British rule even though the upper castes actually collaborated with those empires to keep their social strata intact.

 

[SQ8]

Schooling is not the same as Education !

Which is exactly why I maintain(even if many Indians will disagree with me) that the Modi Phenomenon is exactly the same the one for Imran Khan and PTI. One(IK) came on the back of people desperate for good governance which had them ignore all other realities and near worship the party as religion.. the other(Modi) is coming on the back of economic performance and reforms which the people are desperate for and will ignore all the rest of the package regardless.
The behaviour of the supporters of both these people.. vociferous and fanatical in the support of the cause while being blind to other realities is further proof that the phenomenon is similar and the results will be similar as well except that Modi is a more seasoned politician and so may be able to compromise on alliance forming and political projections.

 

[Mritunjaya]

WOW. Instead of congratulating NaMo for bringing back the ashes of Shyamji Krishna Verma, they are trying to point out a slip of the tongue he made in an inconsequential inauguration of a multi-speciality hospital in Gujarat's Kheda district.

Modi knew enough about Shyamji Krishna Verma to personally got his ashes back from Geneva.

Shyamji Krishna Verma wanted to get his ashes immersed in a Free India. But the congress govt. in spite of repeated request refused to bring his ashes back to India. These shameless sickos now have the audacity to mock Modi, the very man who brought his ashes back to India for a slip of tongue.

What a vile bunch. Berges you are the foulest of them all to make this post with such glee.

For the record, Narendra Modi has honored Shyamji Krishna Verma by creating a memorial called Kranti Teerth along with a museum that showcases the efforts of this great son of India. Of course congress would only honor the Nehru clan with museums.

 

[Armstrong]

Which is exactly why I maintain(even if many Indians will disagree with me) that the Modi Phenomenon is exactly the same the one for Imran Khan and PTI. One(IK) came on the back of people desperate for good governance which had them ignore all other realities and near worship the party as religion.. the other(Modi) is coming on the back of economic performance and reforms which the people are desperate for and will ignore all the rest of the package regardless.
The behaviour of the supporters of both these people.. vociferous and fanatical in the support of the cause while being blind to other realities is further proof that the phenomenon is similar and the results will be similar as well except that Modi is a more seasoned politician and so may be able to compromise on alliance forming and political projections.

Khan kei Khilaaaf Baaat Na Karnaa Warnaaa Laraiii Ho Jaiii Giii !

Khair jokes aside, isn't that a phenomenon common the world over ? How else did Obama came to power if not through the slogan of 'change' & the promise of being able to bring it !

At any rate why worry whether Modi or someone else comes to power in India - Sanuuu kiiii ?

Its not as if our relations are going to improve any time soon & to be honest most of us aren't ready to move on either ? I know I certainly am not.

 

[Chronos]

Which is exactly why I maintain(even if many Indians will disagree with me) that the Modi Phenomenon is exactly the same the one for Imran Khan and PTI. One(IK) came on the back of people desperate for good governance which had them ignore all other realities and near worship the party as religion.. the other(Modi) is coming on the back of economic performance and reforms which the people are desperate for and will ignore all the rest of the package regardless.
The behaviour of the supporters of both these people.. vociferous and fanatical in the support of the cause while being blind to other realities is further proof that the phenomenon is similar and the results will be similar as well except that Modi is a more seasoned politician and so may be able to compromise on alliance forming and political projections.

It is a more realistic prospect that Modi can come into power.

The 'Tsunami' that Imran Khan was not forthcoming. And on social media, the PTI trolls went ballistic on the poor unwashed masses. They were cossetted in their own social media bubble.

There is no Modi wave coming. What he has going for him is Anti-Incumbency and political fatigue setting in.

Modi will be expected to deliver good governance and economic performance.

He has already ratcheted down his 'Hindutva' credentials.

He has rose up the ranks of the party through his own machinations and has tunred BJP into his own personal brand. He managed to sideline Advani along the way.

I think he has more going for him than Imran Khan. 

Khan kei Khilaaaf Baaat Na Karnaa Warnaaa Laraiii Ho Jaiii Giii !

Khair jokes aside, isn't that a phenomenon common the world over ? How else did Obama came to power if not through the slogan of 'change' & the promise of being able to bring it !

At any rate why worry whether Modi or someone else comes to power in India - Sanuuu kiiii ?

Its not as if our relations are going to improve any time soon & to be honest most of us aren't ready to move on either ? I know I certainly am not.

To be fair, India-pakistan relations improve most under a BJP government.

A BJP government has more room to maneuver diplomatically because unlike, Congress they are less likely to be called cowards or Muslim appeasers.

 

[[Bregs]]

Serial gaffes put Modi on back foot


When Gujarat chief minister and Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi confused freedom fighter Shyamji Krishna Verma with Jan Sangh founder Syama Prasad Mookerjee on Sunday, it was not the first time he tweaked the history books.

With the race to the 2014 Lok Sabha elections getting more intense, Modi's fiery speeches fraught with factual errors are hogging the limelight.

Consider this: at the October 27 rally in Patna, which was held after serial blasts rocked the Bihar capital, Modi made a series of mistakes.

"When we are reminded of the Gupta Dynasty we are reminded of Chandragupta's rajneeti," he said at the rally.

Bihar chief minister and Modi's political rival, Nitish Kumar, replied, saying, "The BJP has amazing grasp of history. They should know Chandragupta was of Maurya dynasty, not of Gupta dynasty."

It did not stop here. At the same rally, Modi went on to add, "Alexander's army conquered the entire world, but was defeated by the Biharis. That's the might of this land."

Kumar once latched on to the opportunity, saying: "Alexander's army never crossed Ganga and he wasn't defeated by the Biharis."

On the same day, Modi triggered another storm in the social media. This time, he said, "Taxlia, the learning hub of ancient times, was in Bihar."

Pat came the reply from Kumar. Taxila, which is in Pakistan, is nowhere near Bihar, he said,

A newspaper quoted Modi saying India's first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru did not attend the funeral of his home minister, Sardar Patel.

Later, the newspaper published a correction saying he had been misquoted. Gujarat chief minister had expressed his thanks by tweeting.

On Sunday, Modi landed in a tight spot once again when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Saturday took a dig at the BJP for twisting history.

Addressing a gathering after the inauguration of a hospital in Gujarat's Kheda district, he said, "Syama Prasad Mookerjee was a revolutionary. He died in 1930 in London. But the Congress never bothered to bring back his ashes to the country."

The person Modi was referring to was Shyamji Krishna Verma, a freedom fighter, lawyer and a journalist.

Mookerjee was the founder of the Jan Sangh, which later became the BJP. He died in a Jammu and Kashmir prison on June 23, 1953 - 45 days after being detained for entering the state without a permit.

At a rally in Punjab in June this year, Modi had held India's first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru responsible for Mookerjee's death.

But on Sunday, Modi said, "Nehru should have sent an emissary to bring the ashes (of Mookerjee) back. The Congress government didn't get them back till 2003. It was me who brought the ashes to India in 2003."

Modi later apologised for the blunder. But his critics on Twitter described him as "his own party's history".


Serial gaffes put Modi on back foot - Hindustan Times

 

[SQ8]

It is a more realistic prospect that Modi can come into power.

The 'Tsunami' that Imran Khan was not forthcoming. And on social media, the PTI trolls went ballistic on the poor unwashed masses. They were cossetted in their own social media bubble.

There is no Modi wave coming. What he has going for him is Anti-Incumbency and political fatigue setting in.

Modi will be expected to deliver good governance and economic performance.

He has already ratcheted down his 'Hindutva' credentials.

He has rose up the ranks of the party through his own machinations and has tunred BJP into his own personal brand. He managed to sideline Advani along the way.

I think he has more going for him than Imran Khan. 
.

That is quite true, one has history testament for that. One should remember Moraji Desai who was a die hard Hindu by many accounts and yet the best hope for peace both countries had. Not that I am suggesting Modi is anywhere close to his personality but leadership has its surprises. People dont always do what they build their election campaigns on.

 

[IndoCarib]

Meanwhile in the Congress camp;

Dull response to Rahul's UP rallies sends UP Congress into a tizzy
Dull response to Rahul's UP rallies sends UP Congress into a tizzy - Times Of India

 

[Chronos]

That is quite true, one has history testament for that. One should remember Moraji Desai who was a die hard Hindu by many accounts and yet the best hope for peace both countries had. Not that I am suggesting Modi is anywhere close to his personality but leadership has its surprises. People dont always do what they build their election campaigns on.

He was also a possible CIA mole used against Indira Gandhi. I read that ina book written by the journalist who wrote about the Vietnam war and an excellent polemic on Henry Kissinger. Give me a moment to rerieve his name. I do say 'possibly'.

You also have to say, on One hand, the good thing about state level parties gaining more influence is that guys like Modi gett their wings clipped and can't be too extreme.

The bad side is, India lacks a true visionary leader. It is now even harder for that to happen because politics is more inward looking.

When are we going to have another Ambedkar? for example.

 

[SQ8]

He was also a possible CIA mole used against Indira Gandhi. I read that ina book written by the journalist who wrote about the Vietnam war and an excellent polemic on Henry Kissinger. Give me a moment to rerieve his name. I do say 'possibly'.

You also have to say, on One hand, the good thing about state level parties gaining more influence is that guys like Modi gett their wings clipped and can't be too extreme.

The bad side is, India lacks a true visionary leader. It is now even harder for that to happen because politics is more inward looking.

When are we going to have another Ambedkar? for example.

Seymour Hersh(thank you google) ..
PV Narasimha Rao misled Parliament on help to writer Seymour Hersh who called Morarji Desai a CIA mole - Times Of India

Former PM Morarji Desai was 93 by the time his $50 million libel suit against journalistSeymour Hersh for calling him a CIA mole went to trial.

Then CIA director Richard Helms and erstwhile secretary of state Henry Kissinger testified under oath that Desai never acted in any capacity for the CIA, paid or otherwise. As the scandal erupted, some media reports claimed that while writing the book, Hersh was in regular touch with Indian diplomats posted in the US, and that he had shown them the draft chapter containing the controversial references to Desai.

Visionary leaders need breeding ground..and the truly blessed dont pop us just like that either. Some would argue that it was fate that people like Gandhi, Jinnah and Nehru popped up but the times were also ripe for them. All that differed for them were experiences in life and motivation. As such in my view there are more than enough visionaries available for India but they lack political acumen or are denied access.
There is a certain truth, a visionary will cause others in power severe inferiority complex along with a fear of his capabilities. Liaqat Ali Khan for e.g. was supposedly quite relived when finding out the Jinnah had not long to live. In most cases, visionaries are dragged down before they can fully spread their wings. But I suppose that matters to the definition of a visionary you adhere to.

 

[Chronos]

Seymour Hersh(thank you google) ..
PV Narasimha Rao misled Parliament on help to writer Seymour Hersh who called Morarji Desai a CIA mole - Times Of India



Liaqat Ali Khan for e.g. was supposedly quite relived when finding out the Jinnah had not long to live. In most cases, visionaries are dragged down before they can fully spread their wings. But I suppose that matters to the definition of a visionary you adhere to.

@Oscar before I go, could you reply to this last post, I am interested in your take.
Also Indians and Pakistanis had something all encompassing and an abstract idea to look forward to. Freedom and liberty. More practically, kick the British out.

Maybe I am judging this wrong, but in the long turn, the political current probably lies more with BJP and third parties.

Southern India, where BJP has had abysmal performances (except Karnataka) the population rate is 1.8. The birth rate in Hindi heartland is more and more immigrants from northern India is going to the south for jobs and stuff. In the past, India had had some excellent diplomats to Pakistan, from South India even from my home state kerala.

My point is, South India is indifferent and it's denizens has minimal interest in Pakistan. It's ideas are shaped by former diplomats who are urbane, and well educated and less insane.

You probably need a section of society who never went through the hurt Northern India did during the partition. To be more dispassionate. And bring the focus back on India.

Expect as years go on, that this part of India will lose it's influence more

btw, not hating on the North.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar before I go, could you reply to this last post, I am interested in your take.
Also Indians and Pakistanis had something all encompassing and an abstract idea to look forward to. Freedom and liberty. More practically, kick the British out.

Maybe I am judging this wrong, but in the long turn, the political current probably lies more with BJP and third parties.

Southern India, where BJP has had abysmal performances (except Karnataka) the population rate is 1.8. The birth rate in Hindi heartland is more and more immigrants from northern India is going to the south for jobs and stuff. In the past, India had had some excellent diplomats to Pakistan, from South India even from my home state kerala.

My point is, South India is indifferent and it's denizens has minimal interest in Pakistan. It's ideas are shaped by former diplomats who are urbane, and well educated and less insane.

You probably need a section of society who never went through the hurt Northern India did during the partition. To be more dispassionate. And bring the focus back on India.

Expect as years go on, that this part of India will lose it's influence more

btw, not hating on the North.

That I can agree with. I have some good friends from Kerala and their views are quite contrasting with the rest of the country. Moreover, people from the south is more "detached" per-se from India's border disputes when compared to the Northwest. for e.g. I found more mention of Kashmir from friends in UP, Hyderabad and to a lesser extent in Gujrat when compared to those from say the southern or western states. Their focus was more related to inter-state rivalries in India such as the issue of dams and migration. That does not mean that they were not patriotic about their country.. it just means that unlike those in the north who are more vociferous in their defence of the Kashmir issue as compared to those in the south who (while not wanted to give up Kashmir) were more inclined to have it sorted out peacefully. To them it wasnt an issue they were as such aware of. A second observation I made in my Indian friends is that the ones in states mentioned are more communal in their talk as compared to those from the south. I felt more statements of "You people(Muslims)" from those in north as compared to the south where is was either "live and let be" or quite a bit of information on Muslim culture and customs.. along with equal respect.

A personal example is that during this Ramadan.. I had the opportunity to lead prayers in our small Apartment group of Muslims( to help keep fasting together and a bond as well). We also had a Tamilian Jain and two Gujrati Hindus who were strict vegetarians. Yet they all respected our needs.. helping us organize prayer. On one occasion one of our Gujrati friends even joined us in prayer because he wanted to try it.. So as such, it was as tolerant of a group as you can get.

On an offset note.. I also found the best definition of what the concept of Ummah was all along. We were not all fighting Jihad or having a joint government ruling everyone out. All that it is was us meeting for a common religious need and helping each other in meeting it. And I as I led the prayer... I was a Pakistani with his ancestry in UP.. behind me was a Muslim from Ponani, A Egyptian from Cairo, A Saudi from riyadh, a Bhopali Pakistani and a Kashmiri from Shopian. And right there was the only definition of the Ummah anyone ever needs. Once we were done, broken our fast.. shared a laugh and some discussion.. we all went our separate ways. I was not turned into an Egyptian or drawn to his cause.. we all had our own identities.. our own distinction.