Indian officers killed in Occupied Kashmir

[nirav]

Finally :
(( note to mods : sorry for posting multiple replies in this thread .. i had initially created one single post itself but the board woudnt let me post it coz of my post count ... and i am not the kind of person to post in any damn thread just for the heck of it ... so ... ))



list of Universities :
Universities include best Universities and top Online Universities in Jammu & Kashmir

List of colleges :
Medical : Medical Colleges include best Medical Institutes and top medical colleges in Jammu and Kashmir

B.Sc and B.ed : Bachelor of Education Teaching Jammu & Kashmir Teachers Training Courses Institutes B.Ed Colleges Coaching

Dental : Dental Colleges Jammu & Kashmir, Jammu & Kashmir Dental Colleges, Dental Studies Jammu & Kashmir

Computer : Computer Colleges include best Computer Institutes and top Computer colleges in Jammu and Kashmir

Engineering : Engineering Colleges include best Engineering Institutes and top Engineering colleges in Jammu and Kashmir

management : Management Colleges include best Management Institutes and top Management colleges in Haryana

Degree colleges in jammu : Graduate Colleges include best Graduation Institutes and top Degree colleges in Jammu

Degree colleges in Kashmir : Graduate Colleges include best Graduation Institutes and top Degree colleges in Kashmir

Pharmacy : Pharmacy colleges Jammu & Kashmir, Pharmacy Study, Pharmaceutical Studies Jammu & Kashmir

Unani colleges : Graduate Colleges include best Graduation Institutes and top Degree colleges in Kashmir


I hope this educational infrastructure is good enough for the "oppressed" people

another thing i wanted to tell you all ,,,, am not sure if you will believe it or not ....

i stay in the financial city of mumbai ... where we have many A grade engineering colleges out here ....
one of my friend is in IT.Engg ,, i had visited his college once ,,, and to my surprise ,, in their canteen i saw a bunch of kashmiri students .... well actually it was a huge group ,,, about 20 guys/gals .....

i was really pleasantly surprised ,, and this is not just in one college but in colleges all over Mumbai ( Bombay )
The kashmiris are willing to come and join the mainstream ,, and this was just a drop in the ocean example that i have given to you .....
many more are coming to the cities by the hordes ,,, getting professional degrees and getting employed in multinational companies out here and carving out a nice living for them selves .....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

as far as this topic is concerned , i had read in the news paper that the cheif/head of the village / district where this shoot out took place was also killed along with the Army Majors ..... dont have an online link for it though ....


amd as far as talk of freedom for the kashmiris is concerned ,,,,

i frankly believe that it all is hot gas by vested interests ,,,,,,

Pakistan should take the lead by "freeing" pakistan occupied kashmir completely and giving it a blanket nuclear guarantee against any Indian attempt to take over .....

Once they do that ,, only then they can have the moral right to tell India to give kashmiris their right to self determination ,,,

and as far as the "right to self determination" is concerned ,,, why has Pakistan never held a free and fair plebiscite in Pakistan occupied Kashmir ??

wait a minute ,, did i say "free and fair" election ,, in a country that run by dictators every other 5 years ?! and even elections in Pakistan proper are rigged !! @ Musharraf and company ....

and yeah ,,, the "right to self determination" also cuts both ways ..... give them Balochistanis their "right to self determination" too .....


In REALPOLITIK ,, everyone knows that this just isnt possible .... Pakistan will never do that ,,, either with the Balochis ,, not with the Pakistan occupied kashmir ....

Similarly ,, even India cannot concede to every demand for self determination .... other wise ,, it will be almost impossible to run the country ,,, every body with a different thought process would like to have a country of his own !!!


and finally ... all the talk about bringing India to its knees by these terror attacks on the Indian army and also Indian citizens of Jammu & Kashmir ,,, its never going to materialise ... it will only strengthen Indias resolve to punish them and the perpetrators of those attacks ....

Well we have all seen where realpolitik has taken the world with the US in the forefront of the herd of elephants.

You also err by lumping together various issues and make flawed allegories to substantiate India's arguments against a plebiscite - non of the other issues you have mentioned have as their core a territorial dispute between two nations unsolved since their creation. None of the disputes you have mentioned have at their core UN resolutions asking for that which you dismiss under the guise of realpolitik. If we cannot abide, in some form, by the decision making of certain "neutral" entities when it comes to resolving issues between nations, then the alternate is always going to be war and turmoil. Let us not forget who approached the UN for a solution in the first place.

 

[Bull]

Finally :
(( note to mods : sorry for posting multiple replies in this thread .. i had initially created one single post itself but the board woudnt let me post it coz of my post count ... and i am not the kind of person to post in any damn thread just for the heck of it ... so ... ))
.....

Thanks a lot dude. Jana here is the list. What do you say?

Ah and pls now lets see the Pakistani occupied kashmir's list.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bhagat singh is a freedom fighter. Read about him. He never killed any innocent indian civillians in his fight

Good attempt at delineating the fuzzy line between "freedom fighter" and "terrorist". I would have to add that limiting your "struggle" solely to the "authorities" is not a completely apt definition. The Taliban could argue that they are limiting their "struggle" to the GoP (which is not the case - they are killing and coercing innocent civilians as well), but does that make their struggle legitimate?

I would say no, because their "struggle" isn't against oppression or occupation, it is to forcibly install a system that they want, knowing full well that system has no chance of being implemented were the wishes of the people taken into account. I would saqy then that they do not qualify as "freedom fighters", as your definition would indicate, but anarchists at best.

But take that "definition" and apply it to other "movements" - I think that we can agree that the deliberate killing of innocent people automatically entertains the label "terrorist" - but are the Palestinians all terrorists? Some of the groups that advocate suicide bombings in cafes and school buses obviously are, and should be condemned by both Arabs and Israelis, but the groups that are fighting a political struggle, and those that are restricting their struggle to attacking the IDF, do deserve the label of "Freedom fighter", because the fact that Palestine is "occupied" by the Israelis is not contested by anyone.

Similarly I would suggest that given the status of Kashmir as "Disputed territory" and the little reliable "evidence" (in the form of independent polls, accounts from Kashmiris etc.) we have, it is appropriate to refer to people fighting against "Indian occupation", without resorting to killing civilians, "Freedom Fighters".

 

[Spring Onion]

Thanks a lot dude. Jana here is the list. What do you say?

Ah and pls now lets see the Pakistani occupied kashmir's list.

lolz Bull its pitty you were jumping over Kashmir but you even did not know how many educational institutes are there.

 

[Awesome]

as far as this topic is concerned , i had read in the news paper that the cheif/head of the village / district where this shoot out took place was also killed along with the Army Majors ..... dont have an online link for it though ....


amd as far as talk of freedom for the kashmiris is concerned ,,,,

i frankly believe that it all is hot gas by vested interests ,,,,,,

Pakistan should take the lead by "freeing" pakistan occupied kashmir completely and giving it a blanket nuclear guarantee against any Indian attempt to take over .....

Once they do that ,, only then they can have the moral right to tell India to give kashmiris their right to self determination ,,,

and as far as the "right to self determination" is concerned ,,, why has Pakistan never held a free and fair plebiscite in Pakistan occupied Kashmir ??

wait a minute ,, did i say "free and fair" election ,, in a country that run by dictators every other 5 years ?! and even elections in Pakistan proper are rigged !! @ Musharraf and company ....

and yeah ,,, the "right to self determination" also cuts both ways ..... give them Balochistanis their "right to self determination" too .....


In REALPOLITIK ,, everyone knows that this just isnt possible .... Pakistan will never do that ,,, either with the Balochis ,, not with the Pakistan occupied kashmir ....

Similarly ,, even India cannot concede to every demand for self determination .... other wise ,, it will be almost impossible to run the country ,,, every body with a different thought process would like to have a country of his own !!!


and finally ... all the talk about bringing India to its knees by these terror attacks on the Indian army and also Indian citizens of Jammu & Kashmir ,,, its never going to materialise ... it will only strengthen Indias resolve to punish them and the perpetrators of those attacks ....

87% Kashmiris want Independence. Even more want freedom from India if you combine those that want to become part of Pakistan.

What are you talking about!!! Why should the Kashmiris agree to being raped in exchange for some degree mills?

 

[Spring Onion]

Bhagat singh is a freedom fighter. Read about him. He never killed any innocent indian civillians in his fight.

By virtu of what he is freedom fighter???

And would you like to tell me whome Bhagat Singh was killing and for what ??

BTW do you know when he was hanged and for what he was hanged ???

I am waiting for your reply.

And Kashmiris also do not kill indian civilians rather its Indian Army is killing the Civilian Kashmiris.

I havent heard of youth missing in kashmir. That is probably the pakistani version of events. I grew up hearing how terrorists are trying to seize kashmir and how the IA is fighting them. please quote a reliable neutral source on the missing youth issue.

And about terrorists fighting from between civilians, that part is pretty much obvious. check up the last few encounters between IA and the militants. you will find that most of them are in civilian areas.

Su i had already postd the the stuff with links if you want i will post some mores and that is not Pakistani version, the International as well as Indian media had reported those killings and kidnapping and fake encounters.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

History says he was a freedom fighter and even then he was considered by a whole nation to be.

Thats rubbish, they are always found hiding in civilians home whom they force to feed and shelther.

I call them terrorists not because they r fighting the IA, but because they are fighting from in between civilians and not caring about civilians getting hurt. i hope you get my point.

Did Bhagat Singh challenge the British in a vast empty field and slay them as they charged in the manner of Achilles in the battlefields of Troy - or was his "struggle" subversive and conducted from within the civilian population?

 

[Bull]

Did Bhagat Singh challenge the British in a vast empty field and slay them as they charged in the manner of Achilles in the battlefields of Troy - or was his "struggle" subversive and conducted from within the civilian population?

Bhgat singh or any oher Indian freedom fighter didnt blow up civilians (British nor Indian) to prove a pt. All there acts were directly related to their fight aganst british.

 

[Awesome]

Bhgat singh or any oher Indian freedom fighter didnt blow up civilians (British nor Indian) to prove a pt. All there acts were directly related to their fight aganst british.

Neither do the majority of the Kashmiri Freedom Fighters...

Bharat dude probably never had any good bombs to play around with anyway.

The Kashmiris are fighting Indian soldiers as exhibited in this particular event.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bhgat singh or any oher Indian freedom fighter didnt blow up civilians (British nor Indian) to prove a pt. All there acts were directly related to their fight aganst british.

There is no argument over condemning deliberate civilian deaths. If you read my response to SU-47 I tried explaining that. But not every group in Kashmir is killing civilains, just like you would argue that not every soldier in the IA is deliberately killing civilians, though some cases do occur. Since we do not know, and may never know, whether these people killed civilians or not, it would be inappropriate to call them "terrorists". They died fighting the IA and not holding any civilians hostage, that indicates a degree of passion and courage for their cause. I say they are "Freedom Fighters".

 

[su-47]

Good attempt at delineating the fuzzy line between "freedom fighter" and "terrorist". I would have to add that limiting your "struggle" solely to the "authorities" is not a completely apt definition. The Taliban could argue that they are limiting their "struggle" to the GoP (which is not the case - they are killing and coercing innocent civilians as well), but does that make their struggle legitimate?

I would say no, because their "struggle" isn't against oppression or occupation, it is to forcibly install a system that they want, knowing full well that system has no chance of being implemented were the wishes of the people taken into account. I would saqy then that they do not qualify as "freedom fighters", as your definition would indicate, but anarchists at best.

Interesting read. I have racked my brains on how to truly define the difference between terrorist and freedom fighter and this is what i have come up with.

A terrorist is one who fights for the purpose of inflicting damage and sorrow on one community without actually caring for his own community. As such he doesnt care if people from his community are hurt in the process.

A freedom fighter, on the other hand, is one who fights a community so that his own community benefits. he cares deeply for his community and will prevent it getting hurt.

But take that "definition" and apply it to other "movements" - I think that we can agree that the deliberate killing of innocent people automatically entertains the label "terrorist" - but are the Palestinians all terrorists? Some of the groups that advocate suicide bombings in cafes and school buses obviously are, and should be condemned by both Arabs and Israelis, but the groups that are fighting a political struggle, and those that are restricting their struggle to attacking the IDF, do deserve the label of "Freedom fighter", because the fact that Palestine is "occupied" by the Israelis is not contested by anyone.

Many groups fighting in palestine fight from in between civillian areas. this shows that they dont care for their people, but are fighting just to hurt the israelis. that would definitely fall under the category of terrorism.

Similarly I would suggest that given the status of Kashmir as "Disputed territory" and the little reliable "evidence" (in the form of independent polls, accounts from Kashmiris etc.) we have, it is appropriate to refer to people fighting against "Indian occupation", without resorting to killing civilians, "Freedom Fighters".

you call it indian occupation. but in 1948, kashmir acceded to Indian rule and thus joined the indian union. so in reality indian troops are not occupying any land that doesnt belong to india.

 

[Spring Onion]

Bhgat singh or any oher Indian freedom fighter didnt blow up civilians (British nor Indian) to prove a pt. All there acts were directly related to their fight aganst british.

Bull i asked a question why he was hanged ???
Do you have any answer?

And Kashmiri freedom fighters are also not blowing the indian civilians.
They are fighting against the Indian Army same way as you claim for Bhagat Singh.

 

[Bull]

Bull i asked a question why he was hanged ???
Do you have any answer?

And Kashmiri freedom fighters are also not blowing the indian civilians.
They are fighting against the Indian Army same way as you claim for Bhagat Singh.

No. Mushraff himself has linked the Mumbai blasts to th kashmir issue. So your argumen of Bhagat Singh = kashmiri Terrorists is wrong. Bhagat singh nor any Indian freedom fighter had taken civilian lives intentionally.


And what abt the universities list, guess that list would have shut you up.

 

[su-47]

Bull i asked a question why he was hanged ???
Do you have any answer?

And Kashmiri freedom fighters are also not blowing the indian civilians.
They are fighting against the Indian Army same way as you claim for Bhagat Singh.

what about LeT blowing up bombs in indian cities?

and about bhagat singh, he never got civillians hurt on his account. the kashmiri terrorists always fight from civilian areas, resulting in civilians getting hurt in the crossfire.