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Indian Ocean should not become theatre for strategic confrontation: PM

haha, doesn't that prove some people wrong who said China willn't get a hold of a base in Indian Ocean and that USN willn't allow it? I was right!! And I guarantee you in the future Gwadar will have Chinese ships stationed their. With the Port deal signed by China and SL we can expect a Chinese expansion.

wether people r proved wrong or not...its no bigdeal...we all come here to learn

and iam still sure if India and US work together they can obliterate the chinese presence in IN ..(politically ofcourse ;) )

and btw China has a base in Cocos Island of myanmar also..
 
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Again, there are some points to clear.
After the SethuSamudram project, Srilanka's importance would almost completely diminish, and India would have a firm grip on China's vital supplies.

The Coco islands were initally a part of India, and they were gifted to Myanmar. Mayanmar leased these islands to China when our relations were turning sour, it is only after this the govt realised the futility of being idealistic in its approach towards Myanmar, that they wont negitiate as long as Syu Ki was under house arrest and there was no democracy. Now India trains Myanmar AF, has provided aircraft, currency, military equipment.
The time when the lease expires, if things continue the way they have, China would NOT be given the islands again. Apart from that, China can only setup a listening post there, which it has. It is not a direct naval presence.And i assure you as soon as the lease ends, it will not be renewed.

As far as Maldives, like i said before, this ALL happened when India was still being stupid and idealistic. Now things are changing, and there wont be any further intrusions. Islands are on lease, leases expire.

Only Pakistan and Bangaladesh can give China a proper base, and that would not amount to much as they are right next to the Indian mainland, and thus India can see and listen pretty much everything there. Only in far flung places, like Diego Garcia, Andamans, Lakshwadeep, Seychelles, Maldives can such things take place that actually amount to something.
 
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China: Base strategy
The location of the Republic of Maldives astride the major sealanes in the Indian Ocean is of strategic relevance to India. -- Ministry of Defence's annual report, 2000.

27 July 2001: China has engineered a manner of a coup by coaxing Maldives' Abdul Gayoom government to let it establish a base in Marao. Marao is one of the largest of the 1192 coral islands grouped into atolls that comprise Maldives and lies 40 km south of Male, the capital.

Coral islands make fine submarine pens. The Peoples' Liberation Army Navy or PLAN proposes to deploy nuclear submarines fitted with sea-launched Dong Feng-44 missiles and ballistic missiles (SLBMs) in Marao.

Scientists warn that global warming is pushing up ocean and sea levels. They fear that most of Maldives will be submerged by year 2040. Marao may be one of the few large islands that may survive. "And even if it goes under water," said a naval official, "it will be ideal for submarines."

The base deal was finalised after two years of negotiations when Chinese prime minister Zhu Rongji visited Male on 17 May 2001 on his four-nation South Asian tour. It marks a high point in China's ambitious - and audacious - plan to encircle India and choke its emergent blue-water navy in the Indian Ocean itself.

And it indicates schisms with Maldives, a friendly country saved from a coup by Indian special forces in November 1988.

Gayoom & India

Maldives president Gayoom visited India in August 2000 and held consultations with prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee on issues of mutual interest including "cross-border terrorism" and regional security. Maldives favours "direct talks" between India and Pakistan to resolve the Kashmir issue. Maldives is a Sunni Muslim country that gained independence from Britain and has fair relations with Pakistan.

After the talks in New Delhi, Gayoom met reporters and disclosed that Maldives was "not considering any proposal to set up a permanent Indian naval base" in that country. He added that there was no such proposal from the Indian side, and that the issue did not figure in the talks. He concluded with a tantalising half-observation that Maldives had "excellent levels of cooperation in defence" with India.

That statement hid some things. It hid, for example, the fact that both India and China were actively wooing Maldives or, at any rate, spoiling it for each other.

Five months before Gayoom's visit, Indian naval chief Sushil Kumar had been to Male. In November 2000, Maldives' junior minister for defence and national security, Major General Abdul Sattar Anbaree, came to India. From 9-12 January 2001, (then) defence minister George Fernandes toured Maldives and held extensive discussions with Major-General Anbaree.

"Naval chief Sushil Kumar and Fernandes' visits got the Chinese suspicious," said a naval official. The Chinese had themselves taken off five times to Maldives before the Rongji visit "under the pretext of boosting bilateral trade and Chinese assistance for infrastructural development and boosting tourism". But Fernandes' visit was the turning point for them, not least because Fernandes, a Lohia-ite, lead the anti-Chinese lobby in the Indian government and had once labeled China India's "no 1 threat".

In February 2001, a small delegation from Pakistan visited Maldives to boost cultural ties. "The Pakistanis put pressure on Male to facilitate Chinese plans for a naval base," said an official. "China used Pakistan to play the Islamic card with Maldives."

China is close to striking a formal deal with Maldives for Marao. It will use Marao islands for 25 years on lease and pay back Maldives in foreign currency and create jobs for the locals dependent entirely on tourism and fishing.

Superpower ambitions

The Marao base's principal aim would be to contain the Indian navy. "China," said a naval official, "is worried that the Indian Navy is getting more natural islets in the Indian Ocean and Bay of Bengal to establish bases that can impose a sea denial on China in case of a conflict in the South China Sea and harm Chinese interests in the Indian Ocean region."

But the Marao base is not expected to be operational until 2010. In the interim, according to a November 2000 white paper on China's national defence, PLAN and PLA's naval air force could deploy a minimum of two aircraft carrier battle groups and five submarine groups in the Indian Ocean. Oilers, AWACS and refueling aircraft will support these groups.

But once Marao comes up, China's power projection in the Indian Ocean will stabilise. It will also set China on the course followed in the earlier superpower, Cold War rivalry between the US and the Soviet Union. Both states built a series of naval bases throughout the world for emergency counter-offensive measures. China is embarked on doing the same.

More bases signify a bigger navy. This is also on the cards. According to the November 2000 white paper, China is moving away from Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai's "People's War" doctrine biased toward land-based wars and land-based forces to a greater thrust on sea-based forces. The 2001-2002 defence budget gave PLAN a higher share of 35 per cent but cut the army allocation to 29 per cent.

American worry

These developments have worried the US that has proposed to its ASEAN allies and friendly countries to create a joint command to contain China and prevent its expansion in the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean. The US is keen for India to hasten construction of the Far Eastern Naval Command in the Andaman Islands, and this was repeated by the chairman of the US joint chiefs, General Henry H. Shelton, who visited India recently.

Specific to the Marao base, the US sent navy chief Dennis Blair to Maldives a month after Rongji's visit to take stock of China's military diplomacy. While the US base in Diego Garcia can launch surprise offensives, the US wants to restrict Chinese presence in the Indian Ocean because of its strategic value.

According to one survey, some $260 billion worth of oil and gas will be shipped through the Indian Ocean by year 2004. The oil route stretching from the Strait of Malacca to the Strait of Hormuz will be at the mercy of any power that dominates the sealanes. A Chinese base in Marao islands puts it in a direct position to influence oil commerce. It is a prospect that daunts India, scares Southeast Asia, and alarms the US.

On Wednesday, 25 July 2001, US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the US needed to keep a strong military presence in Asia to deter any future threats from China. "I've always felt," he said, "that weakness is provocative, that it kind of invites people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't think about doing." He disclosed that the Pentagon was evolving a new strategy for Asia that would focus on military operations.

Chinese checkers

But China is pressing ahead with its military plans with equal vigour - and stealth. It is most noticeable in the Marao affair. Indian officials say that China engaged two American and three European companies in the past two years to conduct aerial and deep-sea surveys to assess Maldives' suitability for a base. But the agreement with the companies was for monitoring the weather and magnetic response of the seabed in and around Male.

And yet, such environment-protection surveys may be more than a cover for a base. Environmental protection could also carry a political thrust. Maldives told the UN in 1987 that a 6.6 feet rise in sea level could submerge all of the country. Sea level is rising because of global warming. Global warming is a matter of paranoia for Maldives.

Maldives has criticised the decision of US president George Bush to reject the Kyoto pact on global warming. China calls the US decision "irresponsible", though it is one of the largest emitters of the global-warming carbon dioxide gas, and Zhu Rongji said in Male that China would work with Maldives on environmental issues.

"It will," said an official, "take China next to nothing to convert an honourable campaign against global warming into an anti-American campaign in Maldives."
http://www.indiareacts.com/archivefeatures/nat2.asp?recno=16&ctg
 
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A New Balance of Power Game in The Indian Ocean
India gears up to tackle Chinese influence in Maldives and Sri Lanka


A new great game has begun between India and China to bring Maldives and Sri Lanka under their respective sphere of influence in the Indian Ocean region. After Myanmar and Bangladesh, to complete the "arc of influence" in South Asia, China is determined to enhance military and economic co-operation with Maldives and Sri Lanka. China's ambition to form a naval base at Marao in the Maldives, its recent entry into oil exploration business in Sri Lanka, development of port and bunker facilities at Hambantota, strengthening military co-operation and boosting bilateral trade with Colombo, are all reasons for worry to Indian policy makers.

The Indian Defence Minister's visit to Maldives in July 2006 to hand over INS Tilanchang, a 260-ton, fast-attack craft and other supplies was an astute diplomatic response to China's plan of establishing a full-fledged naval base in Marao, a Maldivian island, by 2010. New Delhi is looking forward to restrain Chinese influence in the Indian Ocean region by sticking to its post Cold War policy of engagement. 'Balancing' through 'engagement' seems to be its current strategy to maintain a balance of power in this region.

Given China's known interest in developing bases around the Indian Ocean littoral, a Chinese base in Maldives would not be surprising. Although China claims that its bases are only for securing energy supplies to feed its growing economy, Indian experts perceive the Chinese base in Maldives as motivated by Beijing's determination to contain and encircle India, and thereby limit the growing influence of the Indian Navy in the region. The Marao base deal was finalized after two years of negotiations when Chinese Prime minister Zhu Rongzi visited Male in May 2001. Once Marao comes up as the new Chinese 'pearl', Beijing's power projection in the Indian Ocean would be augmented.

China is inching closer to Sri Lanka as well. Recently, Sri Lanka allocated an exploration block in the Mannar Basin to China for exploration of petroleum resources. This allocation would imply Chinese presence just a few kilometres from India's southern tip, thus causing strategic discomfort. In economic terms, it would also mean the end of the monopoly held by Indian oil companies in this realm, putting them into direct and stiff competition from wealthy Chinese oil companies. It should be noted that the Chinese are already present at Hambantota on the southern coast of Sri Lanka, where Beijing is building bunkering facilities and an oil tank farm. This infrastructure will help service hundreds of ships that traverse the sea-lanes of commerce off Sri Lanka. The Chinese presence in Hambantota would thus be another vital element in its strategic circle already enhanced through its projects in Pakistan, Myanmar and Bangladesh.

In addition to economic gains, it is Sri Lanka's strategic location that has prompted Beijing to aim for a strategic relationship with Colombo. Beijing is much concerned about the growing US presence in the region as well as about increasing Indo-US naval co-operation in the Indian Ocean. Besides exploring options to cushion the impact of Indo-US strategic co-operation in the region, China looks at using the partnership with Sri Lanka to enhance its influence over strategic sea lanes of communication from Europe to East Asia and oil tanker routes from the Middle East to the Malacca Straits.

India has been apprehensive about China's growing naval expansion in the Indian Ocean. New Delhi views this as "encirclement" and has sometimes objected to Chinese links - especially military ties - with India's smaller neighbours. As China's new naval diplomacy unfolds in the region, India cannot remain a mute spectator and, much like China, has increased its military engagement in the region. Through 'engagement' it has successfully enhanced its regional and international profile and worked overtime to reduce Chinese influence to maintain a balance of power in the region. India now regularly conducts naval and military exercises with great powers, including the US, Japan, and China, as well as its South Asian and South-East Asian neighbours. New Delhi has signed a defence agreement with Singapore and has co-operative arrangements with many nations stretching from Seychelles to Vietnam. It has participated in mechanisms to protect maritime traffic passing through the strategic Malacca Straits.

In recent years New Delhi has intensified its pace of co-operation with countries in the Indian Ocean littoral. After the success of its tsunami diplomacy, New Delhi is looking forward to evolve new channels of naval diplomacy with these countries. During the last one year, the just retired Indian Navy chief, Admiral Arun Prakash, visited many South East Asian and South Asian capitals. The primary aims of these visits were to enhance bilateral co-operation and strengthen naval ties. Two Indian warships currently on overseas deployment made friendly port calls in Bangladesh and Myanmar. During Arun Prakash's visit to Bangladesh, the two navies discussed possibilities of connecting Vishakapatnam and Chittagong ports. An access agreement with Dhaka, to be part of the Navy's recommendations to the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, would allow more extensive patrolling, both sea borne and from air, in these sensitive waters. It will also recommend to the Government to make an offer to Dhaka for allowing Indian naval vessels to maintain some Bangladeshi ports, so as to compete with Beijing's strategic gains in that sector. (China signed a training and equipment agreement with Dhaka earlier this year.) Based on the Ministry of External Affairs' response, follow-up discussions will be firmed up with Dhaka. Such initiatives highlight the deeper understanding in South Block on the need to improve naval ties with its closest eastern neighbours to counter Chinese influence in the eastern Indian Ocean.

The exquisiteness of India's naval diplomacy is that the objective of balancing is being undertaken through a policy of co-operation. With intense co-operation alone, New Delhi has been able to create a balance of power in the Indian Ocean. While on the one side India's apprehensions over China's string of pearls strategy in the Indian Ocean has woken up New Delhi to see these developments as a future threat, on the other side it is looking forward to improve bilateral co-operation with China through diplomatic and military engagement. Recently, the second round of India-China bilateral naval exercises was concluded in the Arabian Sea. It was the first time that Chinese forces joined manoeuvres in Indian territory. The first of this series was undertaken in the South China Sea in 2003. The India-China naval engagement reflects India's determination to move forward with the policy of regional co-operation. In an era of engagement, India will have to make all endeavours at the strategic level to balance China's power realistically, through the development of its own economic and military potential and by building stronger relationships with neighbours and regional organisations like ASEAN.
http://www.idsa.in/publications/stratcomments/AmitKumar241106.htm
 
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Maldives: Tiny islands, big intrigue

BANGALORE - Concerned about China's growing interest in the Indian Ocean, a body of water and region that New Delhi considers to be its own sphere of influence, India is strengthening its already close military cooperation with Maldives, a nation of 1,192 tiny, low-lying coral islands strategically located about 300 miles off subcontinent's southeast coast.

India is transferring to Maldives INS Tillanchang, a 260-ton fast-attack craft commissioned in 2001, which has a range of 3,600


kilometers and is designed for quick and covert operations against smugglers, gun-runners and terrorists. India will also provide Maldives with funds for training, material and technical assistance for three years after the transfer of the vessel.

The ship will be formally transferred to Maldives in mid-April when Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee visits the Maldivian capital, Male. Besides, an Indian navy survey ship, INS Darshak, will conduct a hydrographic survey in the waters around Maldives.

Close cooperation between the two countries is not new. In 1988, in response to the request of the Maldivian government, India rushed paratroopers and naval forces to crush a coup attempt. India's relationship with Maldives has deepened in the post-coup period. It has provided Maldives with armored cars and other military equipment and has trained Maldivian paratroopers in counter-insurgency operations. Indian navy vessels patrol along the archipelago's many coastlines and watch over its sea lanes.

In addition to strengthening Maldives' internal security, there exists close cooperation in developing the archipelago's health, civil aviation, telecommunications and other civilian sectors. Indian and Maldivian coast guards have also participated in joint dosti (friendship) exercises. Moreover, the Indian navy was at the forefront of massive relief operations after the 2004 tsunami.

Not everyone in Maldives is not happy with the growing military relationship, as some see this as further consolidating President Maumoon Abdul Gayoom's grip on power. Maldives, a seemingly serene tourist paradise, has in recent years been rocked by street demonstrations opposing Gayoom's autocratic rule. There is concern that Gayoom will use the military assistance he gets from India against his domestic political opponents, whom he tends to label indiscriminately as "Islamist terrorists".

So there are plenty of good reasons for New Delhi to keep a close watch over its neighbor. Maldives shares ties of religion with Pakistan (both countries are Sunni Muslim). India would not want that bond to blossom into a stronger political-defense relationship or have other interests inimical to India gain influence in territory so close to its coastline.

That's why reports of growing ties with China are of great concern to New Delhi. The visit of then Chinese premier Zhu Rongji to Male in 2001 immediately prompted rumors that the Chinese were seeking a base on one of the atolls. According to these reports, the Chinese managed to persuade the Maldivian government to grant them a base on Marao, one of the largest islands of the archipelago, and that Pakistan had played an important role in pushing the deal through. The base was to become operational in 2010.

The deal appeared to have run into trouble in 2002, but reports of renewed maritime cooperation on the part of China and Maldives surfaced again in 2004. Both the Maldivian and Chinese governments denied the reports and have since maintained that the deepsea surveys that were carried out were for environmental protection, not for military purposes.

China might deny it has plans for a base in Maldives, but such plans fit a long-standing pattern. To the west of India lies China's longtime "all-weather friend" Pakistan. China's cooperation on missiles and nuclear weapons is well known and its funding of Pakistan's Gwadar port will enable the Chinese navy to sit at the mouth of the strategic Strait of Hormuz, through which passes much of the world's petroleum supply, as well as provide it access to the Arabian Sea.

To India's east, China has substantial influence over the military junta in Myanmar. It is helping modernize several bases along the Andaman Sea in Hianggyi, Akyab, Kyun and Mergui to support Chinese submarine operations. Myanmar is said to have leased a base to the Chinese in the Coco Islands, which are just a few nautical miles from India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands. India believes that Beijing's surveillance facilities there facilitate its monitoring of India's missile-testing activity in the eastern state of Orissa.[This was before we started actively in Myanmar too, the islands had been leased though] China also has extensive military relations with Bangladesh. Dhaka is said to have offered the Chinese access to Chittagong port.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HD07Df01.html
 
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HERE IT IS GENTLEMEN, as if BANG ON CUE::

India, US, Japan to carry out military drill: Report

Tokyo, Mar 05: Japan, the United States and India will carry out a joint military drill in the Pacific off Japan's coast amid concerns about China's military build-up, a report said Monday.

The Pentagon will call on Japan and India to participate in the military exercise set for next month, the regional Tokyo Shimbun newspaper reported, citing unnamed Japanese and US government sources.

The drill is likely to focus on safety measures to be taken in the event of a major natural disaster in the Pacific such as a tsunami, it said.

Japanese naval escort vessels and maritime patrol helicopters are expected to participate in the drill, it said.

Japanese defence officials were not immediately available for comment.

The report came a day after China announced its defence budget would soar by a massive 17.8 percent in 2007, as the United States said it wanted to know more about the Asian giant's intentions.

China has seen double-digit increases in its military spending nearly every year for the past 15 years. Washington and Tokyo have called on Beijing to be more transparent about its massive budget.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has repeatedly said he wants to develop closer ties with India. He and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in December agreed to start talks on a free trade deal.

Bureau Report
http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=358067&sid=NAT
 
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whether it be influencing the land battle, launching another front, destroying the other ARMY from the sea, or whatever.

Navy can destroy a army only if it has enough air power, with 2 ACs having 25each harriers and Mig 29, i dont see IN doing that anytime soon.IN is for strangulating, for choking supply lines and thus not letting PA move quick.

In fact as time comes, army will have the lowest priority among the three.

No power has surrendred to air power yet. Army remains the most vital. They might be the last to move in after the Airforce but victory is counted by how our Army fairs on ground.

Infact Navy is the main tool for power projection too. Nothing infuences more than a Navy.

We are peaking IN vis-a-vis PN, PN doesnt have to do power projection, it not aiming to be a super power or major power in the IOR.

I say send Vikramaditya with its CBG the new CBG's that is, the P-28's ASW, Shivaliks, Talwars, Delhi's along with Barak NG's, Barak and Kashtan's for protection, and yeah the AWACS, P-8's and other things, and hopefully ATV, Along with the LPD and see some serious sweating wherever they are sent.

AWACS, from where will they operate. In doesnt have a landing platform for AWACs, except for the AEW helis.

The flotilla that you have mentioned is the cream of IN, i wonder what would be left back to patrol our shores.

AND when the Sethu-Samudram project gets completed, woohoo, the Navy will ******** ROCK! Not only will the fleet joining time reduce by HALF!!

please explain how sethu project would help reduce the time by half.
 
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I wonder if Pakistan jointly with China can grab the deal of Sri Lanka before somebody else does it. This should piss of the Indian government, and it seems likely that the deal will get through considering the amount of help Pakistan have given the Sri Lankans at the time of need.

Another step to make sure India doesn't dominate Indian Ocean and it will pull right through the neck!

Webby, Srilanka is Indias backyard they like it or not. LTTE still remains a force with a lot of symphaty from the Indian side. India stoped supporting LTTE long time back, but if SL govt keeps on inviting outsiders India might be forced to rethink its relationship with LTTE. And increase in terrorism in the island nation is going to hurt its booming tourism industry and also the sethu project would take away a lot of business from the colombo ports, thus hurting them.
 
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The stock market went down 400+ Points and so did rest of the world market (big powers).

Thats bullshit reasoning for a status of super power.
Funds are the biggest investors in most of the markets, when any one of them collapses they try to lock the profits made in other counters, which inturn triggers the collapse.

Um, you need to keep up, awhile ago about 2 months a team of economists went including the person who replaced greenspan, they were trying to influence China to make their currency strong to buy more American goods, but China disagreed saying it will hurt their home market

Chineese yuan is undervalued and thats a truth. And US sending Bernanke ( yes thats his name) to China is not a one of case. Central bank heads do visit important trading partners and for US china is the biggest.

So, it's the other way around US needs China more. I'm a Business Management Major with a minor in History. So, I'm studying this stuff right now.

If you have a point to make go ahead and make, dont throw your resume here. So what does your economic tell you about US dependance on China.
PS:while answering that do tell me where the money earned as trading surplus vis-a-vis US is going.

China wouldn't be spending all that money on the port for nothing you know.

So what you are saying is that you dont know , 'but if they are doing they might have a reason'.
 
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PS:while answering that do tell me where the money earned as trading surplus vis-a-vis US is going.

Somebody of the Hail China group please Answer this question,
Bull, I can see that you remember your phone call.
 
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Some of the news featured at www.******************** mentioned that Pakistan was getting a Spruance Class destroyer and that it was running through the US Senate for the sale of 2 Oliver Perry Frigates.

Any more news on this?
 
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Some of the news featured at www.******************** mentioned that Pakistan was getting a Spruance Class destroyer and that it was running through the US Senate for the sale of 2 Oliver Perry Frigates.

Any more news on this?

Spruance is not happening dude.......

Not sure about the OHP's though.....
 
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PN sub-fleet is the only blue-water as well as modern component along with P-3C's. Rest of PN is a joke in its current form
 
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