Indian Navy has 'hegemonic mindset': Pak naval chief

[weaponx]

Just to add
1) 2 more infact IAC1 to be STOBAR and IAC2,3/queen elizabeth to be conventional type and are in line next .
2) 45 MIG29 K super fulcrums
3) 40-50 Naval MRCA (f35/rafale/f18/gripen/typhoon).
4) Anti submarine vessel project 128 or 28 something cant remember
5)Amphibious vessels based on USN TRENTON(JALSHAWA) / French MISTRAL class
6)Refuelling ships INS DEEPAK - just launched in italy
7)More AEW and survilleancr aircrafts - KAMOV KA31 AEW 6 more ordered(total 20)
but IN not satisfied with KA31 so looking for options like
V22 OSPREY/E3d sentry AWACS or upgrading KA31to new standurd
8)P8i maritime aircraft 8 ordered 12 more in talks.
9)Anti submarine choppers - trials going on Augustawestland/Lockeheed/Bell/Boeing/Eurocopter
10)multipurpose helicoptors ALH-DHRUV 24 ordered and more in line + Medium category multipurpose tender to start soon.
11) new tender for 6 submarines to be released soon - HDW of germany/ DSCNS of FRANCE/russia AMUR1650 are in fray
12) new order for 8 more SCORPENE to be floated in LOK-SABHA in this session

if we can get all these by 2020..then we will be a blue water navy...
But we need to start looking at having foreign bases...

That will be the best way of getting dominance over seas..
I think indian navy is already investing in madagascar..but that will not be a full fledged base....if we can get a full fledged base..it will be enough to cover africa and middle east..and we need atleast one base in south china sea..

 

[KEETARP]

Something like as HI-TECH as DIEGO GARCIA i guess .
What do you say a naval base - with capability to launch 2 sqn of FGFA/MCA .
Just like US has in Diego Garcia .

 

[weaponx]

Something like as HI-TECH as DIEGO GARCIA i guess .
What do you say a naval base - with capability to launch 2 sqn of FGFA/MCA .
Just like US has in Diego Garcia .

yes..we need to have base just like the one in karwar....a naval cum airforce base..that will be a huge punch and game changer in that region...but it will be very difficult to have a foreign base of that size...bcoz wherever india constructs such a base..other nations of thar region even friendly to india would be very uncomfortable having such a huge force close to them....for eg if we have such a base in madagascar..it will rattle the middle east and ofcourse USN(i think 5th fleet is stationed in bahrain)....and having such a base in south china sea may even lead to diplomatic crisis with china...no country in that region however unfriendly to china will try to face their ire unless we provide something substantial in return...we can do that..coz there are few nations such as japan,vietnam,laos which are not having friendly relations with china...we could use that to our advantage..but what we will need is some hard hitting diplomacy and most importantly some political spine .....

 

[sancho]

if we can get all these by 2020..then we will be a blue water navy...
But we need to start looking at having foreign bases...

That will be the best way of getting dominance over seas..
I think indian navy is already investing in madagascar..but that will not be a full fledged base....if we can get a full fledged base..it will be enough to cover africa and middle east..and we need atleast one base in south china sea..

Guys don't go too far with your wishes, what advantage should IN have with a base in Madagascar? The middle east is easier to reach from our bases on Indians westcost and why a base directly Chinas region, that will be difficult to support in case of any war?
IN main short term must be defense of our costal areas (Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea) and later with SSNs/SSBNs and bigger carrier for longer distances.

 

[weaponx]

Guys don't go too far with your wishes, what advantage should IN have with a base in Madagascar? The middle east is easier to reach from our bases on Indians westcost and why a base directly Chinas region, that will be difficult to support in case of any war?
IN main short term must be defense of our costal areas (Bay of Bengal and the Arabian Sea) and later with SSNs/SSBNs and bigger carrier for longer distances.

india has a naval station in madagascar.,,its main aim is to provide security to the sea route from pirates..but also to check chinese influence in IOR....india is boxing the IOR...with naval station in madagascar...another one in mauritius...and a naval base in Andaman Nicobar islands....

and regarding my suggestion that india should have a base in South china sea..my point is india cant stop china from having a base in gwadar or in srilanka..but we can balance it by having a base in their region of influence.....

and regarding war with china..i can tell u for sure..india and china will never have a war with each other ...both know they will lose much more than they gain from such a war....but we will have a cold war type situation..and all these are nothing but show of strength to each other...

 

[below_freezing]

If you look at the plans for the Indian Navy.

1. 1 air carrier from Russia. at least 1 under construction in Kochi.
2. Shivalik class frigates about to be commissioned. 3 ships
3. Kolkata class destroyers X 3 - 1st to be commisioned in 2012.
4. Talwar class frigates - 3 more from Russia.
5. Akula II class SSN.
6. Arihant class SSBN.
7. Scorpene subs
Indian naval policy is closer to the US, British policy of sea-control. Carriers and large destroyers are the cutting edge of the Indian fleet.
China and Pak follow the sea denial policy. Broadly speaking this means they lack carriers and big escorts. Rely more on subs and fast missile boats.

there are concerns over the speed of construction of Indian vessels. Delays have been frustrating. A faster procedure for construction and induction needs to be followed so the Navy doesn t need to operate older vessels beyond their useful life.

actually, china has more major surface combatants than india except for carriers. 26 destroyers and 51 frigates, all over 4000 tons. compared with india: outside of carriers, india has 8 destroyers and 9 frigates (17 total)

in fact, china has more missile launching major surface combatants (77) than even Russia (4 cruisers + 14 destroyers + 6 frigates = 24) and Britain (7 destroyers, 17 frigate = 24). We have less than Japan (49 destroyers!) and US only.

the only thing we are lacking is aircraft carriers, for now.

india has a long way to go before even matching britain or russia, much less the US.

 

[sancho]

and regarding my suggestion that india should have a base in South china sea..my point is india cant stop china from having a base in gwadar or in srilanka..but we can balance it by having a base in their region of influence.....

and regarding war with china..i can tell u for sure..india and china will never have a war with each other ...both know they will lose much more than they gain from such a war....but we will have a cold war type situation..and all these are nothing but show of strength to each other...

I know what you ment, but these chinese bases are not a real problem for us, because they all are in reach of our air force and would be prime targets in a war against them. Just like a fix base of us in their region would be for PLAAF. SSNs/SSBNs and bigger carrier instead, a more flexible and powerful, so aren't they the better choice of deterrence?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dont want to be a pain but.China doesnt have a base in pakistan or srilanka.
U cant have influence in any sea forget about chinese sea.
If according to you guys go to war and try attacking gwadar it wil be a one ticket flight for ur fleet heading towards gwadar.
It isnt 71 and there aint no bengladesh for a naval blockade.Even then we bombed dwarka and goa sectors and sank ur ship.
This time PN has made more bases and in order to come to gwadar u will have to pass through karachi,pasni and other bases.Gwadar is near persian gulf and u dont have enough force even to cross karachi.
Thanks to our modernisation.
I just hope we get our subs,corvettes and frigs in time.And hopefully some new jets for our Navy.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Sir With kind respect China already on the process of building a base in Kachha thivu ( A small island which India Gave to Srilanka) . Lot of Chinese activity was seen following the war with LTTE. About Gwadar port it was built by the Chinese, so it wont be surprise to have a base.
Pakistan once made a costly mistake underestimating IN. So dont do the same. IN doesn't need to cross all the way to Gwadar, that is the reason it has a base in Madagascar.
The only thing difficult for IN to have is the base in China sea.

 

[swasthika]

Great indian Navy..Jai Hind.

 

[12345]

Seriously we dont consider what others feel about our own ambitions.If and IF we are a nation,who initiates war every time, then there is a reason for others to offend.

As a matter of fact,India never invaded any other country after becoming republic,so be it.
Despite that building your own forces and security is shouldnt be a matter of concern for others.

Due to those very few holes in the security net,10 random guys sailed to kill 150+ without getting detected.

May be that Pak Naval Chief should be educated regarding that 3 day shootout.

We dont want to take a chance in future.Hence protecting our own citizens is the need of the day.And I will support a huge naval buildup in this regard which is going to be a saviour.

If Pak Naval chief didnt know the IN future ambitions and force structure :

AC:
Virkamaditya
Vikrant
Viraat (not the current one,but the 60,000+ tons with nuke power)
another to be names(similar 60,000+ tons displace nuclear AC)
Initially IN wants atleast 3 carrier task force by 2018 and will add 2 more by 2025.this will let atleast 3 on high seas 24/7

Destroyers:

Rajuput class (5)
Delhi class(3)
Kolkatta class(3)
P-15B with ABM(4 to be laid down by 2012,number might go up)
P-15C (followon to P-15B with improvements.5 planned)

Frigates:

9 in service and 6 under construction and 12 more planned

Corvettes:

24 in service,4 under construction,12 more to be build(with 4,8 )

Submarines:
D.E:
Of the most interesting part with 16 in service though many are due for retirement.But IN sub building plan wants to see 24 new subs in service by 2025.these include the 6 scorpene under construction and 6 planned(amur/U boats) and 12 indigenous design by a private yard.

Nuclear:
Though the numbers often swing

5 confirmed SSBN`s.
ATV will act as a deterence untill followon large boats roll out.Later ATV will become lab assistant.

9 SSN planned. First boat construction is due to start in 2012.


IN also planned for 12 modified Jalashwa LPD`s and 24 new class of amphib (upgraded magar class)

Aircraft:

45 MIG 29K
40 NLCA(planned for acquisition)
Will decide to order either naval FGFA/AMCA in 2014( to be inducted by 2018-2020)

Afterall...... all these boats and subs are nothing to confront china.IN will definitely need more money to match china,till then it can onlee be a IOR power. JAI HIND.

 

[faithfulguy]

Dont want to be a pain but.China doesnt have a base in pakistan or srilanka.

The guy above are measure power projections by potential. You are looking at the current facts. So there is a discrepency

 

[faithfulguy]

Indian Navy is already the dominant Navy in Indian Ocean. What it is trying to do is develop capabilities to be able to be dominant in other Ocean's if required.

I would have to say that the 5th fleet is the dominating force in the Indian Ocean. The 5th fleet can handle all the navies in the region combined. The 7th fleet as well dominates Western Pacific region and the 6th fleet dominates Mediterranian and the 2nd fleet dominates the North Atlantic.

Anyone care to disagree. So I would say that Indian Navy has the hegemonic mindset. But has no real domination over Indian Ocean.

 

[faithfulguy]

Sir With kind respect China already on the process of building a base in Kachha thivu ( A small island which India Gave to Srilanka) . Lot of Chinese activity was seen following the war with LTTE. About Gwadar port it was built by the Chinese, so it wont be surprise to have a base.
Pakistan once made a costly mistake underestimating IN. So dont do the same. IN doesn't need to cross all the way to Gwadar, that is the reason it has a base in Madagascar.
The only thing difficult for IN to have is the base in China sea.

Why would India even need bases in China seas?

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Well that is the point i was mentioning ..... India doesnt need a base in china sea. I was referring to some one who was talking about it. The problem is it is so difficult to maintain a base outside the geographical sphere of influence..... Regards