Indian Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta Spells Out Vision 2022

[Contrarian]

*ATV to be launched in Visakhapatnam on Jan 26, 2009
* The Chakra to be inducted into the navy on Aug 15 , 2009

Apt, dont you think. They do chose their dates properly!

And no, i dont think we would have SSN in the near future. Too expensive to operate both SSBN's and SSN's.

If three are being made, maybe the fitting could be different for one of them, which acts as an SSN, considering that one would be in dry dock, repairs,off-duty,etc.

 

[nitesh]

Apt, dont you think. They do chose their dates properly!

And no, i dont think we would have SSN in the near future. Too expensive to operate both SSBN's and SSN's.

If three are being made, maybe the fitting could be different for one of them, which acts as an SSN, considering that one would be in dry dock, repairs,off-duty,etc.

Even I think so, but isn't SSBN role should be to stay away from conflict zone lurking some where and SSN job is to remain in the conflict zone and hunt the enemy ship down. So some will be lurking in side somewhere and some will be actively involved in conflict, sounds good.

That article mentions about having 16 BrahMos or 12 K-15. No mention about the torpedo tubes though.

 

[Jliu]

Even I think so, but isn't SSBN role should be to stay away from conflict zone lurking some where and SSN job is to remain in the conflict zone and hunt the enemy ship down. So some will be lurking in side somewhere and some will be actively involved in conflict, sounds good.

That article mentions about having 16 BrahMos or 12 K-15. No mention about the torpedo tubes though.

The IN has not currently developed a scenario based warplan for the employment of SSN/SSBN assets in the Indian Ocean theatre so it is too early to speculate the precise employment of the above.

However the most likely scenario would have nuclear assets on the East Coast leaving the West Coast SSK fleet (and at least the Chakra) for power projection.

As for 2010+ SSK force levels I would be interested in your views if Adm Mehta meant 24 SSK units total or 24 SSK/SSN in his recent comments?

Regards

 

[Jliu]

Indian Navy Ships May Be Built in S. Korea - Defense News

Indian Navy Ships May Be Built in S. Korea


NEW DELHI - With Indian shipyards too busy to meet demand for new military vessels, the Indian Navy is negotiating with South Korea to build warships there.

To begin with, a frigate and an escort vessel for the Indian Navy could be built in South Korea, Indian Defence Ministry sources said.

Adm. Sureesh Mehta, chief of the Indian Navy, will discuss the matter with South Korean Defense Minister Lee Sang-hee and other officials during an Aug. 19-24 tour that takes him to Japan and South Korea, Navy sources said.

The Indian Navy plans to buy more warships to replace the large number of obsolescent ones due to be scrapped in the next five years. But India's shipbuilding capacity is saturated.

Mehta will visit South Korean submarines and the naval academy. In Japan, he will meet Japanese Defense Minister Shigeru Ishiba and Vice Defense Minister Kohei Masud. Mehta will also visit the Yokohama shipyard and the front-line ships of the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force.

IIRC, the Hyundai yards builds the U214 design under license and would be most useful for an IN U214 order.

 

[Contrarian]

Even I think so, but isn't SSBN role should be to stay away from conflict zone lurking some where and SSN job is to remain in the conflict zone and hunt the enemy ship down. So some will be lurking in side somewhere and some will be actively involved in conflict, sounds good.

Depending about the mission fit, that particular boat might be a part of a CBG as an SSN or merely on the East Coast as Jlieu avoiding everyone.

That article mentions about having 16 BrahMos or 12 K-15. No mention about the torpedo tubes though.

Those are implied mate. You dont build subs without torpedo tubes.

 

[nitesh]

.

As for 2010+ SSK force levels I would be interested in your views if Adm Mehta meant 24 SSK units total or 24 SSK/SSN in his recent comments?

Regards

Jliu the SSK fleet will consist mainly of modified kilo which are joining now, there were issues with Klub but it seems to be sorted out now with the joining of INS sindhughosh. Apart from that from 2012-2013 time line the scorpene will start to join in. Hope the second line of subs goes through in time and there induction should start from 2067-17 onwards (hopefully). Seems like scorpene will see a repeat order as by 2020-22 time the kilo will be in last legs of there operation/ getting retired. Apart from that as 3 ATV are in construction till 2015. Once the first is clear for induction we might see new development in this front also.

 

[Jliu]

The USSN Springfield nuclear-powered submarine and the Indian Navy’s INS Shishumar — made by German firm HDW — will face off in the Malabar “encounter-ex” to test searching, tracking and killing capability. On paper, the nuclear-powered submarine is noisier — making it easier to detect — than the diesel-electric Shishumar, but it is more powerful.

The only inherent advantage the old 209 has in acoustics is >5knts.

The Indian Navy is understood to have refused to pit one of its quieter Kilo-class (or Sindhughosh-class) submarines for the exercise. It had refused to deploy a submarine in the last Malabar exercise though the US had sent one.

I say its a load of bull. "Quietness" is relative to the handling, active/passive management of noise levels and placement. It seems the IN doesn't want to find out the hard way about just how effective the refits have been but I'd bet quite a bit another US boat is out there tailing the refitted Kilos so in my view the IN has nothing to lose by participating in the Ex.

 

[nitesh]

Those are implied mate. You dont build subs without torpedo tubes.

Soory i had not quoted my point clearly, those will be lightweight torpedo in 553mm or we can see heavy torpedo in 655 mm. Correct me if I am wrong but the isn't heavy torpedo tubes can be used to launch the cruise missiles (like nirbhay) too.

 

[Jliu]

Jliu the SSK fleet will consist mainly of modified kilo which are joining now, there were issues with Klub but it seems to be sorted out now with the joining of INS sindhughosh. Apart from that from 2012-2013 time line the scorpene will start to join in. Hope the second line of subs goes through in time and there induction should start from 2067-17 onwards (hopefully). Seems like scorpene will see a repeat order as by 2020-22 time the kilo will be in last legs of there operation/ getting retired. Apart from that as 3 ATV are in construction till 2015. Once the first is clear for induction we might see new development in this front also.

Thank you for your views but I highly doubt the Scorpenes are going to bag a repeat order.

There are simply far "better" alternatives; in every possible parameter, out there. By which you should be familiar with already.

Regards

 

[nitesh]

Thank you for your views but I highly doubt the Scorpenes are going to bag a repeat order.

There are simply far "better" alternatives; in every possible parameter, out there. By which you should be familiar with already.

Regards

Hey jliu, what is your view on the point you raised. What I mean is that this will be third line of subs then and isn't it a good option just to maintain only two line of subs at least from an economy perspective.

 

[Contrarian]

Soory i had not quoted my point clearly, those will be lightweight torpedo in 553mm or we can see heavy torpedo in 655 mm. Correct me if I am wrong but the isn't heavy torpedo tubes can be used to launch the cruise missiles (like nirbhay) too.

Heavy torp tubes can be used to launch CM's. I am no expert in the Naval field, nitesh, i wont be able to answer that correctly.

Jleiu, whenever your ready!

 

[Jliu]

Heavy torp tubes can be used to launch CM's. I am no expert in the Naval field, nitesh, i wont be able to answer that correctly.

It all depends on the diameter and engine thrust/output of the SLCM. SLCMs differ from ALCMs or even LLCMs in that certain modifications to the casing of the body-particularly the warhead must be made in order to fit into a heavy(generally 650mm+) tube and also to protect against pressure at depth.

It goes without saying that range will suffer significantly at the expense of payload the only exception being the TacTomahawk launched from US SSN/SSBN which is enclosed in a disposable canister negating all the above problems.

 

[Jliu]

Hey jliu, what is your view on the point you raised. What I mean is that this will be third line of subs then and isn't it a good option just to maintain only two line of subs at least from an economy perspective.

The IN will have three different types of SSK (Kilo, Scorpene and another six) by 2012 either in service, IOC or building. Obviously in addition to the ATV and 1-2 Akula its a nightmare from the logistics POV although it will be mitigated somewhat with the new logistics system we're implementing for the IN-can't go into the details of that at this point. Capability by itself means nothing.

With regards to your second statement nothing is ever solely based on the economics/upkeep variable-in your case the GoI makes procurement decisions with geopolitical considerations primarily in mind, with input from the IN's undersea warfare arm in the form of a threat matrix analysis which I have contributed to. There will probably always be three SSK types in the IN because it seems the GoI seems to have taken to heart the best way to neutralise a submarine threat is to stop the sub from being procured in the first place-which often means buying the design in order to deny/delay it to a competitor even if it means causing your own navy quite a bit of headache. Nevertheless the threat matrix also takes into account the very likely possibility of peer competitors gaining access to advanced T3 submarines such as the Marlin, Turkish derivative of the
U214 as well as Swedish Gotland/A26 designs that would likely improve the strategic balance towards the adversaries' favour.

 

[nitesh]

Hey thanks a lot, ha ha ha that is good strategy just deny the competitor from gaining access or just delay it

 

[jaison]

Soory i had not quoted my point clearly, those will be lightweight torpedo in 553mm or we can see heavy torpedo in 655 mm. Correct me if I am wrong but the isn't heavy torpedo tubes can be used to launch the cruise missiles (like nirbhay) too.

light torpedoes and heavy torpedoes have seperate compartments,atv may use Advanced Experimental Torpedo (lightweight torpedo),Varunastra (heavyweight torpedo),Takshak (heavy weight torpedo)........yes u r correct torpedo tubes can be used to launch CMs like the british astute(ssn with tomahawk) but am not sure if atv would hav that ,but there is a bright possilibity considering development of brahmos,nirbhay and the absence of dedicated ssn(which usually carryout CM attacks)..........strategically ssbns offer more advantages than ssns such as long range better payload......rich countries posses dedicated ssns and ssbns but atv must be a multirole sub....but when it comes out am sure that many countries will be crying foul abt indias intentions.........