Indian navy captures 61 pirates in Arabian Sea

[Roybot]

Illegal fishing and piracy can't be seen with the same angle.

 

[KS]

A truly asinine response, to suggest that military force be used against what are essentially criminals and extortionists. Would we like to see the same treatment meted out by the Pakistani, Sri lankan and Bangladeshi navy - or Coast Guard - to our fishermen who will not listen to counsel to stick to Indian fishing waters? Are we not already aware that the Tamil Nadu fishermen in the Gulf of Mannar go deep into Sri Lankan waters, in spite of their clear knowledge that this is not permitted, and their knowledge that both the Jaffna fisher community and the official maritime forces of Sri Lanka are increasingly hostile and edgy about this aggressive behaviour? There is a constant smuggling traffic around the Sundarbans, with smugglers and river pirates from both countries active; should the BDB start shooting?

Please don't be so ready to fight to the last soldier, sailor or airman. We are civilians; it is in poor taste for us to suggest belligerent action of this sort, which is illegal as well, as far as international law goes.

Leaving aside the snide remarks and starting with the bolded part I would like to suggest according to the Treaty signed in 1974 between India and SL, the island of Katchatheevu was transferred to Sri Lanka with the clause that Tamil Nadu fishermen will be allowed fishing rights in the waters as it has been their traditional fishing ground for centuries. So I cannot say that the Tamil fisher men (atleast a majority) are at a fault here.

Secondly coming to the issue of the pirates , if Somali fishermen had been caught straying into Indian waters I would suggest re-patriating them back home without even charges being pressed. But these are not exactly fishermen, rather hardened pirates who take killing as a livelihood. So I dont know how your example of fishermen relates to the pirates.

Thirdly if the Indian Navy is so gung-ho about civil rights (though the pirates IMHO dont deserve one) and dont want to kill them , fine do as the Russkies do/did.

"Disarm them, put them in inflatable boats without any navigation equipment and let them drift away. If their stars are good they will escape or else its their destiny"

Somali ambassador defends Russian treatment of pirates.

And still no one has answered what is the proposed solution/SOP under which the imprisoned pirates will be handled in the judicial quagmire India is already in.

A situation like this actually occured at one point when some pirates were captured on the high seas and brought to India for trial. India had thrown out or revised a lot of British laws since gaining its independance. One of the laws they got rid of, probably unintentionally, was the British criminal statute against piracy. So a curious situation arose: they had some people who were pirates under international law but they had no domestic authority to punish them.

Link

Some argue that the old British laws on piracy can be used to try them but I dont see it feasible.If someone could prove me otherwise, I would happily withdraw my comments.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Leaving aside the snide remarks and starting with the bolded part I would like to suggest according to the Treaty signed in 1974 between India and SL, the island of Katchatheevu was transferred to Sri Lanka with the clause that Tamil Nadu fishermen will be allowed fishing rights in the waters as it has been their traditional fishing ground for centuries. So I cannot say that the Tamil fisher men (atleast a majority) are at a fault here.

Secondly coming to the issue of the pirates , if Somali fishermen had been caught straying into Indian waters I would suggest re-patriating them back home without even charges being pressed. But these are not exactly fishermen, rather hardened pirates who take killing as a livelihood. So I dont know how your example of fishermen relates to the pirates.

Thirdly if the Indian Navy is so gung-ho about civil rights (though the pirates IMHO dont deserve one) and dont want to kill them , fine do as the Russkies do/did.

"Disarm them, put them in inflatable boats without any navigation equipment and let them drift away. If their stars are good they will escape or else its their destiny"

Somali ambassador defends Russian treatment of pirates.

And still no one has answered what is the proposed solution/SOP under which the imprisoned pirates will be handled in the judicial quagmire India is already in.




Link

Some argue that the old British laws on piracy can be used to try them but I dont see it feasible.If someone could prove me otherwise, I would happily withdraw my comments.

I will address only the underlined part here. India has powers to both apprehend and prosecute the Pirates. This is by virtue of the fact that India is a fully ratified signatory to UNCLOS.
The issues regarding the prosecution are not fully resolved yet. And that is solely to do with the mechanism of the prosecution.
While I have some familiarity with UNCLOS, I am not currently familiar with the Admiralty Laws as incorporated in Indian law as amended.
Having said that, there are many pieces of Judicial legislation in India. Now an Act as passed must have Rules codified subsequently. This is the meat of the matter, the Act becomes quite useless either if the Rules have not been formed, or if the Rules are incomplete or Infirm. That is one probable area of concern in this prosecution, unless that has been anticipated and addressed.
Then there is another matter; in any Prosecution, evidence has to be presented/ led. How the existing Evidence Act will handle that in case of these accused from Somalia is another grey area. I hope the authorities in India have geared up to this.

But on the other hand, meting out summary justice is NOT justifiable. Not in a country that lives by Rule of Law. And in the 21st century.
BTW, was that not part of the issues that Citizens of India fought both courageously and successfully during the days of the infamous Emergency.

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

Why is it only Indian navy duty to capture the pirates, are Pakistan navy doing anything about this?

 

[StingRoy]

Secondly coming to the issue of the pirates , if Somali fishermen had been caught straying into Indian waters I would suggest re-patriating them back home without even charges being pressed. But these are not exactly fishermen, rather hardened pirates who take killing as a livelihood. So I dont know how your example of fishermen relates to the pirates.

But being a pirates always does not mean that they are murderers, are they? I would classify them as robbers who if the situation arises don't hesitate to kill. Their main intention is living off ransom money. Do we start killing the robbers once they are caught inside the mainland?

Yes, the Russian approach is indeed innovative one, but many human rights groups would argue that it is as good as alienating an astronaut in space, Yes we didn't kill him, but we didn't leave him a chance to survive either.

 

[StingRoy]

Why is it only Indian navy duty to capture the pirates, are Pakistan navy doing anything about this?

We had Indian nationals being held as hostages... hence our naval action.

 

[alphamale]

joint action by affected nations has to be taken, abducting ships now days have become a norm.

 

[KS]

I will address only the underlined part here. India has powers to both apprehend and prosecute the Pirates. This is by virtue of the fact that India is a fully ratified signatory to UNCLOS.
The issues regarding the prosecution are not fully resolved yet. And that is solely to do with the mechanism of the prosecution.
While I have some familiarity with UNCLOS, I am not currently familiar with the Admiralty Laws as incorporated in Indian law as amended.
Having said that, there are many pieces of Judicial legislation in India. Now an Act as passed must have Rules codified subsequently. This is the meat of the matter, the Act becomes quite useless either if the Rules have not been formed, or if the Rules are incomplete or Infirm. That is one probable area of concern in this prosecution, unless that has been anticipated and addressed.
Then there is another matter; in any Prosecution, evidence has to be presented/ led. How the existing Evidence Act will handle that in case of these accused from Somalia is another grey area. I hope the authorities in India have geared up to this.

With so many grey areas and the world famous speed with which we people take up these, we perhaps need to build a chain of jails on the west coast specially for these somali pirates whee they can happily wile away their time feeding themselves and watching Bollywood.

But Popeye ji thanks for the explanation

But on the other hand, meting out summary justice is NOT justifiable. Not in a country that lives by Rule of Law. And in the 21st century.BTW, was that not part of the issues that Citizens of India fought both courageously and successfully during the days of the infamous Emergency.

I am just saying we , India, cannot be burdened with extra pressure on our legal system for the sake of Somali pirates. Either the UN should step in with some sort of trial mechanism or the Indians should be willing to follow the Russian way if allergic to spot punishments.

We need to instill fear in them. Fear is the only way these pirates can be deterred. Atleast make a selective case. Like if any Indian vessel is hijacked and the Navy undetakes an Op kill those so that in the future they think twice before hijacking an Indian flagged vessel.

I am sorry peepz, but kind hearts wont win this war for you nor will clean the Gulf of Aden off this scourge. Feel free to disagree.

 

[KS]

But being a pirates always does not mean that they are murderers, are they? I would classify them as robbers who if the situation arises don't hesitate to kill. Their main intention is living off ransom money. Do we start killing the robbers once they are caught inside the mainland?

Yes, the Russian approach is indeed innovative one, but many human rights groups would argue that it is as good as alienating an astronaut in space, Yes we didn't kill him, but we didn't leave him a chance to survive either.

Human rights, Oh yes,Human rights. This is the problem. When people resort to such actions as the pirates do they automatically forfeit that right. The Pirates know that. That is why they daringly involve in this.

 

[StingRoy]

Human rights, Oh yes,Human rights. This is the problem. When people resort to such actions as the pirates do they automatically forfeit that right. The Pirates know that. That is why they daringly involve in this.

You can't always do a tit-for-tat can you? I can understand your frustration about the already overloaded judicial system, but unless an accepted international approach is formulated, this will continue.

There is an urgent need to call for an international action on how to deal with these pirates. But till then, we can't just leave them out in the open sea.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

if we can capture them alive we should do so(if resist shoot them)..and produce in indian courts or international court.if we can give kasab a fair trail why not the pirates?

 

[StingRoy]

if we can capture them alive we should do so(if resist shoot them)..and produce in indian courts or international court.if we can give kasab a fair trail why not the pirates?

You have a point, but see how much drain it is on the state exchequer just for a single man (Kasab). Although I don't see that cost association with these thugs, nevertheless, they will be a drain on the judiciary. It shouldn't be only our responsibility to give the pirates a fair trial, but the responsibility of the whole international community who are operating in the Gulf of Aden.

 

[rcrmj]

take them home to parade to have a bollywood style show off`thats the only reason.
US, RUS, France, China, none of them actually do that

 

[Capt.Popeye]

take them home to parade to have a bollywood style show off`thats the only reason.
US, RUS, France, China, none of them actually do that

Yeah they let them loose again. Are'nt you impressed by that !

 

[KS]

You can't always do a tit-for-tat can you? I can understand your frustration about the already overloaded judicial system, but unless an accepted international approach is formulated, this will continue.

There is an urgent need to call for an international action on how to deal with these pirates. But till then, we can't just leave them out in the open sea.

You have a point, but see how much drain it is on the state exchequer just for a single man (Kasab). Although I don't see that cost association with these thugs, nevertheless, they will be a drain on the judiciary. It shouldn't be only our responsibility to give the pirates a fair trial, but the responsibility of the whole international community who are operating in the Gulf of Aden.

I will quote my post ;

I am just saying we , India, cannot/should not be burdened with extra pressure on our legal system for the sake of Somali pirates. Either the UN should step in with some sort of international mechanism where the concerned nations (whose ships were hijacked) will pay for the trial or the Indians should be willing to follow the Russian way if allergic to spot punishments.

We need to instill fear in them. Fear is the only way these pirates can be deterred. Atleast make a selective case. Like if any Indian vessel is hijacked and the Navy undetakes an Op kill those so that in the future they think twice before hijacking an Indian flagged vessel.

I am sorry peepz, but kind hearts wont win this war for you nor will clean the Gulf of Aden off this scourge. Feel free to disagree.

We should not alone carry the burden when the other navies are letting the pirates free once their vessels are secured. I would call this good natured insanity on the part of the Indian Navy.