Indian Muslims should form exclusive party, consider moving to Kerala: Zakir Naik

[GHALIB]

Do you think your country is secular?

yes india is a secular democratic country because we have adopted secular democratic socialist constitution .

 

[313ghazi]

yes india is a secular democratic country because we have adopted secular democratic socialist constitution .

Does your country practise the ideals it's adopted? Why am i asking. Clearly it doesn't, and clearly you'll never accept that.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

How ?

This is my thread from 2016 about modern socialist activism among Muslims from the 1900s onwards. It is an article by the Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha.

Aren't you a Muslim socialist? I think you have said nice things about Che Guevara. I'm not as anti-Che as I was in the past. I hate to say it but I think Mao was better as a writer and intellectual. To be fair, Mao imo was more intellectual than Lenin. Mao was a genius. I don't think he was necessarily a benevolent genius but undoubtedly he was a genius. Che was very intelligent but I think he was deeply misguided. At the same time, he gave up his life for his beliefs and I respect his courage. I also admire his dedication to anti-imperialism.

But as for Muslim socialists or Muslims secularists...... Muslim secularism is inherently contradictory.

Was Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) a secularist? Was a secular state formed in Medina?

Obviously, the state established in Medina was not remotely secular. It was an Islamic state.

From a Muslim standpoint, the ideal social system is an Islamic state. Now, of course, the state in Medina was one where there was protection for the people of other religions.

So a state that implements the sharia- it must protect the people of other religions. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs have a right to their religions and their rights have to be protected. Protecting their rights is extremely important. It is protecting the moral foundation of the Islamic state. It would be a danger for the entire structure of the Islamic state if the state were to neglect its obligation to protect minorities.

Anyways, as for Muslim socialism..... when it comes to Mao, Che, etc.- I agree with their anti-imperialism but I don't agree with Communism.

And in practice, I think we see very often that Muslims who say they are socialists, that they tend to compromise on aspects of the dīn.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

Does your country practise the ideals it's adopted? Why am i asking. Clearly it doesn't, and clearly you'll never accept that.

What if BJP was removed and Congress was in charge? Do you think India would then be secular?

 

[GHALIB]

Does your country practise the ideals it's adopted? Why am i asking. Clearly it doesn't, and clearly you'll never accept that.

yes for all practical purposes we are secular country .

 

[khansaheeb]

Zakir naik is a threat to peace, very similar to anjam Chaudhary of UK.
‘Exclusive to Muslims’ statement shows his intent very clearly, he is a non secular Islamist, openly ridiculing all other religions.
Anything exclusive to any religion, race or sect is against our secular principles.
He has targeted Kerala because many radical organisations has presence there. Kerala has almost 50% Muslim population, but I have my faith in them cos they are educated and progressive.

Seems like you can't accept truth and facts and want to lynch any messenger of facts.

 

[Indos]

Aren't you a Muslim socialist? I think you have said nice things about Che Guevara. I'm not as anti-Che as I was in the past. I hate to say it but I think Mao was better as a writer and intellectual. To be fair, Mao imo was more intellectual than Lenin. Mao was a genius. I don't think he was necessarily a benevolent genius but undoubtedly he was a genius. Che was very intelligent but I think he was deeply misguided. At the same time, he gave up his life for his beliefs and I respect his courage. I also admire his dedication to anti-imperialism.

But as for Muslim socialists or Muslims secularists...... Muslim secularism is inherently contradictory.

Was Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) a secularist? Was a secular state formed in Medina?

Obviously, the state established in Medina was not remotely secular. It was an Islamic state.

From a Muslim standpoint, the ideal social system is an Islamic state. Now, of course, the state in Medina was one where there was protection for the people of other religions.

So a state that implements the sharia- it must protect the people of other religions. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs have a right to their religions and their rights have to be protected. Protecting their rights is extremely important. It is protecting the moral foundation of the Islamic state. It would be a danger for the entire structure of the Islamic state if the state were to neglect its obligation to protect minorities.

Anyways, as for Muslim socialism..... when it comes to Mao, Che, etc.- I agree with their anti-imperialism but I don't agree with Communism.

And in practice, I think we see very often that Muslims who say they are socialists, that they tend to compromise on aspects of the dīn.

Does prophet Muhammad name Madinah state as Islamic State ???? Madinah state use Islamic laws, thats it. Prophet Muhammad never said Madinah state as Islamic state.

I see people like you like to add anything which is not even implemented during prophet Muhammad time. It makes it difficult for Muslim people to support the implementation of Shariah law. I am not supprise then there is compulsory in hijab imposed by nation like Saudi and Iran despite prophet Muhammad as far as history show never impose such measure during his rule.

What I can say, people like you make Shariah law implementation not popular among Muslim people. Shariah Law is simple and I dont think it is a hard rule, only for those who commit crime it will become hard. So as I said, no need to change the nation into Islamic state, not necessary, we just only need to use Shariah Law as positive law in the country for all citizen and resident, Muslim and Non Muslim.

 

[Adonis]

I would also advocate the Indian muslims relocate and concentrate in peripheral area's. Seclarism is dead in India, they should ready themselves for any worst case scenarios.

Lol...Actually for Muslims of India, in the name of religion, a separate country was created in 1947....Are you asking them to relocate there?

 

[jamahir]

To be fair, Mao imo was more intellectual than Lenin. Mao was a genius. I don't think he was necessarily a benevolent genius but undoubtedly he was a genius.

I must admit I have never read Mao's ideas. But there is the Naxal / Naxalite movement in India which adapted Mao's ideas to Indian situation and wants to overthrow the current Indian system through armed means just like Mao did. That is why they are also called Maoists and have been fighting the Indian state in the jungles since the 1960s.

Further, part that in urban areas these fighters / rebels find sympathy among some intellectuals and part that the Indian State wants to blame and jail some intellectuals, these intellectuals are called by the right-wingers as "Urban Naxals".

Che was very intelligent but I think he was deeply misguided.

Why do you call him misguided ?

Was Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) a secularist? Was a secular state formed in Medina?

Obviously, the state established in Medina was not remotely secular. It was an Islamic state.

For that we should look at what Islam really is. Is it only just another way of public prayer and ritual ? It is not. What it is primarily is, is a advisory on how to set up a socio-economic welfare society. If we are to take an example, and here I run the risk of being banned or warned for takfir'ing, are the Taliban exemplar Muslims ? If not, who are ?

 

[jamahir]

Does prophet Muhammad name Madinah state as Islamic State ???? Madinah state use Islamic laws, thats it. Prophet Muhammad never said Madinah state as Islamic state.

I see people like you like to add anything which is not even implemented during prophet Muhammad time. It makes it difficult for Muslim people to support the implementation of Shariah law. I am not supprise then there is compulsory in hijab imposed by nation like Saudi and Iran despite prophet Muhammad as far as history show never impose such measure during his rule.

What I can say, people like you make Shariah law implementation not popular among Muslim people. Shariah Law is simple and I dont think it is a hard rule, only for those who commit crime it will become hard. So as I said, no need to change the nation into Islamic state, not necessary, we just only need to use Shariah Law as positive law in the country for all citizen and resident, Muslim and Non Muslim.

You make some correct points.

 

[jamahir]

What if BJP was removed and Congress was in charge? Do you think India would then be secular?

Not too long ago when Manmohan Singh, from Congress, was the Prime Minister, he once said that India's main internal problem / enemy was the left-wing Naxalite militancy. Why didn't he say that the main problem was right-wing extremism, whether from Hindus or Muslims ?

In previous decades the Congress didn't have the courage to ban right-wing groups and that has led to the current chaotic state.

The writers of the Indian Constitution wanted a secular society. They will be turning in their graves seeing the current India.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

Does prophet Muhammad name Madinah state as Islamic State ???? Madinah state use Islamic laws, thats it. Prophet Muhammad never said Madinah state as Islamic state.

I see people like you like to add anything which is not even implemented during prophet Muhammad time. It makes it difficult for Muslim people to support the implementation of Shariah law. I am not supprise then there is compulsory in hijab imposed by nation like Saudi and Iran despite prophet Muhammad as far as history show never impose such measure during his rule.

What I can say, people like you make Shariah law implementation not popular among Muslim people. Shariah Law is simple and I dont think it is a hard rule, only for those who commit crime it will become hard. So as I said, no need to change the nation into Islamic state, not necessary, we just only need to use Shariah Law as positive law in the country for all citizen and resident, Muslim and Non Muslim.

imo basically every major religion wants to implement its own equivalent of "Hindu Rashtra". If Hindus can want a Hindu Rashtra, I can be in favor of Muslim Rashtra. The Cristero Movement (or at least elements of it) of 1920's Mexico wanted a Catholic State. Under George Bush, I think the US was basically a Christian Zionist state. One of the intellectual leaders of Zionism wanted a Jewish state.

It is entirely valid and legitimate to want a Muslim state.

Now how these issues might relate in a subcontinent-specific context is another issue. I'm just looking at it from an abstract viewpoint. From the abstract viewpoint, the concept of a Muslim state is a perfectly legitimate concept and Medina was definitely an Islamic state.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

I must admit I have never read Mao's ideas. But there is the Naxal / Naxalite movement in India which adapted Mao's ideas to Indian situation and wants to overthrow the current Indian system through armed means just like Mao did. That is why they are also called Maoists and have been fighting the Indian state in the jungles since the 1960s.

Further, part that in urban areas these fighters / rebels find sympathy among some intellectuals and part that the Indian State wants to blame and jail some intellectuals, these intellectuals are called by the right-wingers as "Urban Naxals".




Why do you call him misguided ?



For that we should look at what Islam really is. Is it only just another way of public prayer and ritual ? It is not. What it is primarily is, is a advisory on how to set up a socio-economic welfare society. If we are to take an example, and here I run the risk of being banned or warned for takfir'ing, are the Taliban exemplar Muslims ? If not, who are ?

1- Why do I call Che misguided?

Why would I not claim that Che was misguided?

I agree with anti-imperialism but I don't agree with Marxism.

2 What Islam primarily is and who are exemplar Muslims.

Let me start with the second issue. I would cite Aurangzeb as an exemplar Muslim. As for what Islam primarily is, I would not like to answer as I think that the answer to that question is constituted by the field of Aqeedah. However, I do not think Islam is primarily a socialist ideology.

 

[Omar Al-Deek]

Not too long ago when Manmohan Singh, from Congress, was the Prime Minister, he once said that India's main internal problem / enemy was the left-wing Naxalite militancy. Why didn't he say that the main problem was right-wing extremism, whether from Hindus or Muslims ?

In previous decades the Congress didn't have the courage to ban right-wing groups and that has led to the current chaotic state.

The writers of the Indian Constitution wanted a secular society. They will be turning in their graves seeing the current India.

Why should right-wing groups be banned?

How can we be in favor of democracy and be against populism? Populism is an inherent feature of democracy.

I think we as human beings must accept that democracy is wrong and reject it.