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Indian Muslims on the creation of Pakistan

Lowest class? Does it mater if lowest class got talent and becomes President of india/scientific-defence advisor to govt of india? taking active part in indian politics . Are all these guys from lowest cast

The bulk of Indian Muslims suffer grave deprivation in social opportunity, because of lack of access to education, health care and other public services, and to employment. For the most part, they are even more disadvantaged than Dalits and are emerging as, if they have not already crystallised into, India's principal underclass. Forty-three per cent of them live below the official poverty line. Muslims are more likely to live in hovels without electricity than Dalits. Only 19 per cent have piped water supply, compared to 23 per cent Dalits.

Muslim men's work participation rate (48 per cent) is lower than Dalit males' (53 per cent). For Muslim women, it is just 9.6 per cent, less than half the Dalit women's 23 per cent. Muslims are less likely to use the public distribution system for food (22 per cent) than Dalits (32 per cent) or vaccinate their children (40 per cent) than Dalits (47 per cent).

Until the mid-1970s, Muslims were typically less disadvantaged than Dalits, although clearly worse off than Other Backward Classes. Now, they have slipped to the bottom. Today, enrolment of urban Muslim boys in school is 10 percentage-point lesser than that of Dalits. For rural girls, the absolute gap is smaller (4 percentage-point), but huge in comparison to the 12 percentage-point lead they earlier had.


Trust me mate, without even opening the borders by india , infiltrators are already here from bangladesh and pakistan. Uninvited ....?

Trust me also when i say if pakistan opened its border indians population would half.


By the way what is the class of hindus in Pakistan? how many have u promoted to the crucial positions? any count?

Rana Bhagwandas chief justice of pakistan.
Rana Bhagwandas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Lowest class? Does it mater if lowest class got talent and becomes President of india/scientific-defence advisor to govt of india? taking active part in indian politics . Are all these guys from lowest cast?

Trust me mate, without even opening the borders by india , infiltrators are already here from bangladesh and pakistan. Uninvited ....

By the way what is the class of hindus in Pakistan? how many have u promoted to the crucial positions? any count? Wile Jinnah also said that he will give equal opportunity and respect to all religions.
Jinnah Had a vision where All religions thrive in Pakistan. A Secular Govt Model in an Islamic state, thats what he wanted. But I guess his dreams died with him and only his name survives!
 
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It did not happen in 1947 my friend. Hold referndum in Pakistan today, many Mohajirs will opt to come back. ..

RK

Start what ? For us its done deal.. Whatever you have is yours and whatever we have is ours... All we can do is correct our maps...thats all...

RK

It was your idea that pakistan should hold a referendum for the mohjar.......its better to start with a UN referendum in kashmir first like Nehru said.......dont forget it was the indians that asked for the UN vote.

In his press-conference in London on 16th January, 1951, as reported by the daily "Statesman" on 18th January, 1951, Pandit Nehru stated, "India has repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture.
 
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some are facts and rest are utter BS. Where did you learn that healthcare is more biased to dalits and muslims are refused. No one is refused in india for a meal in a school or at a public health care centre based on his religion. A poor is a poor , be it a hindu or a muslim or anyone else.

If there are fundings based on religion, there won't be fair competetion. Let me give u an example. Indian govt paid all of my college fees because of being in the merit list. Muslim friend who was was behind the list and had to self finance was rescued by money from Kuwait(WAKF) , paying his entire fees. Now where is the competetion between him and a guy way up the list but still having to finance himself. This is what the govt wants to avoid.
Of Kalam is the right person, he will become president, if premji is the right person he will become ceo. there is no stopping anyone. Ask Kalam or Premji if they want to migrate to Pakistan when you open the border. They will stay where fair play is in terms of human rights. Want to know rights of hindus in pakistan? they are not allowed to vote for Muslims. Is that what Jinnah wanted?

however there is still selective benefits to poor Muslims in india where the condition is worst. What have you got for hindus in Pak?

3. INDIA: RESERVATION FOR MUSLIMS - SHOULD IT OR SHOULD IT NOT BE?

Let every Pakistani know that Government of India pays a portion of money for all the Hajj pilgrims. Hajj travel is very heavily subsidised in India. Hindu pilgrims feel discriminated on this issue.

RK
 
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some are facts and rest are utter BS. Where did you learn that healthcare is more biased to dalits and muslims are refused. No one is refused in india for a meal in a school or at a public health care centre based on his religion.]

Combating Muslim exclusion


A poor is a poor , be it a hindu or a muslim or anyone else..

I am totally with you bro:smitten:

Want to know rights of hindus in pakistan? they are not allowed to vote for Muslims. Is that what Jinnah wanted..

As far as recall musharaff changed the system where the Hindu minority has reserved seats in the National Assembly and can vote for their local candidate.
Pakistan Hindu Panchayat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


however there is still selective benefits to poor Muslims in india where the condition is worst. What have you got for hindus in Pak?

No doubt pakistan can do more for the minority population but we dont go around burning and killing our people every couple of years......more masjids have got attacked then the temples and churchs have over the years.
Our is muslims killing muslim ....yours is hindus killing muslims-sikhs-christians.
 
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Let every Pakistani know that Government of India pays a portion of money for all the Hajj pilgrims. Hajj travel is very heavily subsidised in India. Hindu pilgrims feel discriminated on this issue.

RK

Let every hindu indian know that pakistan is spending 30 million dollars on the restoration of Katasraj temples of the Mahabharat era.

A lot of hindu holy site are in pakistan which the hindus visit any time they want and also india is next door to pakistan not like saudi arabia which is thousands of miles away.
Trying to compare the cost of going to hajj to a hindu travelling to his holy site is unfair......one needs a plane to travel a couple of thousand miles to saudi arabia while the other can catch a train-bus ect to get to the ganges or the temple and not need a passport-travel documents-injections ect.

If you feel that Hindu pilgrims feel discriminated dont subsidise the indian muslims.
 
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Interesting article, my question is, how many Muslims from India migrate to Pakistan?
Or vice versa?
If I am to fully believe this article, I would say that Indian Muslims are not too fond of Pakistan and its idea of "protecting Muslims and their interests" in their own home country, neither do they seem to be convinced that Pakistan is a nation that is tolerant for other religious groups e.g. the Christians.
They seem to say so otherwise in this letter sent to the U.N.
Are Indian Muslims really happy with their position in India? And are they really convinced of a "united India" without any racial prejudices or the use of the caste system or whatever against them?
Why don't some of them migrate to Pakistan? Where they will be fully accepted and embraced as brothers and sisters.
Violence against Muslims in India is pretty common, so why would a muslim stay there and continue to believe in this ideology of a India that is tolerant for all races and beliefs and treats everyone equally, afterall, that is supposed to be the strength of India.
Why sacrifice your freedom to achieve India's large Hindu majority goals?
 
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There is a myth that all Indian Muslims wanted Pakistan. Facts are otherwise. No wonder there are almost equal number of Muslims who decided to live back in India. Here is letter from Indian Muslims to UN;

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Memorandum submitted by Muslim leaders of India to UN Representative: 14 August 1951
Submitted by kashif on Mon, 06/25/2007 - 22:19. Indian Muslim
Text of Memorandum submitted by 14 Muslim leaders of India to Dr. Frank P. Graham, United Nations Representative 14 August, 1951

It is a remarkable fact that, while the Security Council and its various agencies have devoted so much time to the study of the Kashmir dispute and made various suggestions for its resolution, none of them has tried to ascertain the views of the Indian Muslims nor the possible effect of any hasty step in Kashmir, however well-intentioned, on the interests and well- being of the Indian Muslims. We are convinced that no lasting solution for the problem can be found unless the position of Muslims in Indian society is clearly understood.

Supporters of the idea of Pakistan, before this subcontinent was partitioned, discouraged any attempt to define Pakistan clearly and did little to anticipate the conflicting problems which were bound to arise as a result of the advocacy of the two-nation theory. The concept of Pakistan, therefore, became an emotional slogan with little rationale content. It never occurred to the Muslim League or its leaders that if a minority was not prepared to live with a majority on the subcontinent, how could the majority be expected to tolerate the minority.

It is, therefore, small wonder that the result of partition has been disastrous to Muslims. In undivided India, their strength lay about 100 million. Partition split up the Muslim people, confining them to the three isolated regions. Thus, Muslims number 25 million in Western Pakistan, 35 million to 40 million in India, and the rest in Eastern Pakistan. A single undivided community has been broken into three fragments, each faced with its own problems.

Pakistan was not created on a religious basis. If it had been, our fate as well as the fate of other minorities would have been settled at that time. Nor would the division of the sub- continent for reasons of religion have left large minorities in India or Pakistan.

This merely illustrates what we have said above, that the concept of Pakistan was vague, obscure, and never clearly defined, nor its likely consequences foreseen by the Muslim League, even when some of these should have been obvious.

When the partition took place, Muslims in India were left in the lurch by the Muslim League and its leaders. Most of them departed to Pakistan and a few who stayed behind stayed long enough to wind up their affairs and dispose of their property. Those who went over to Pakistan left a large number of relations and friends behind.

Having brought about a division of the country, Pakistan leaders proclaimed that they would convert Pakistan into a land where people would live a life according to the tenets of Islam. This created nervousness and alarm among the minorities living in Pakistan. Not satisfied with this, Pakistan went further and announced again and again their determination to protect and safeguard the interests of Muslims in India. This naturally aroused suspicion amongst the Hindus against us and our loyalty to India was questioned.

Pakistan had made our position weaker by driving out Hindus from Western Pakistan in utter disregard of the consequences of such a policy to us and our welfare. A similar process is in question in Eastern Pakistan from which Hindus are coming over to India in a large and large number.

If the Hindus are not welcome in Pakistan, how can we, in all fairness, expect Muslims to be welcomed in India ? Such a policy must inevitably, as the past has already shown, result in the uprooting of Muslims in this country and their migration to Pakistan where, as it became clear last year, they are no longer welcome, lest their influx should destroy Pakistan's economy.

Neither some of the Muslims who did migrate to Pakistan after partition, and following the widespread bloodshed and conflict on both sides of the Indo-Pakistan border in the north- west, have been able to find a happy asylum in what they had been told would be their homeland. Consequently some of them have had to return to India, e.g Meos who are now being rehabilitated in their former areas.

If we are living honorably in India today, it is certainly not due to Pakistan which, if anything, has by her policy and action weakened our pooition.

The credit goes to the broadminded leadership of India, to Mahatma Gandhi and Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, to the traditions of tolerance in this country and to the Constitution which ensures equal rights to all citizens of India, irrespective of their religion caste, creed, colour or sex.

We, therefore, feel that, tragically as Muslims were misled by the Muslim League and subsquently by Pakistan and the unnecessary suffering which we and our Hindu brethren have to go through in Pakistan and in India since partition, we must be given an opportunity to settle down to a life of tolerance and understanding to the mutual benefit of Hindus and Muslims in our country - if only Pakistan would let us do it. To us it is a matter of no smaller onsequence.

Despite continuous provocations, first from the Muslim League and since then from Pakistan, the Hindu majority in India has not thrown us or members of other minorities out of Civil Services, Armed Forces, the judiciary, trade, commerce, business and industry. There are Muslim Ministers in the Union and State cabinets, Muslim Governors, Muslim Ambassadors, representing India in foreign countries, fully enjoying the confidence of the Indian nation, Muslim members in Parliament and state legislatures, Muslim judges serving on the Supreme Court and High Courts, high-ranking officers in the Armed Foroes and the Civil services, including the police. Muslims have large landed estates, run big business and commercial houses in various parts of the country, notably in Bombay and Calcutta, have their shares in industrial production and enterprise in export and import trade. Our famous sacred shrines and places of cultural interest are mostly in India.

Not that our lot is certainly happy. We wish some of the state Governments showed a little greater sympathy to us in the field of education and employment. Nevertheless, we feel we have an honourable place in India. Under the law of the land, our religious and cultural life is protected and we shall share in the opportunities open to all citizens to ensure progress for the people of this country.

It is, therefore, clear that our interest and welfare do not coincide with Pakistan's conception of the welfare and interests of Muslims in Pakistan.

This is clear from Pakistan's attitude towards Kashmir. Pakistan claims Kashmir, first, on the ground of the majority of the State's people being Muslims and, secondly, on the ground, of the state being essential to its economy and defence. To achieve its objective it has been threatening to launch "Jehad" against Kashmir in India.

It is a strange commentary on political beliefs that the same Muslims of Pakistan who like the Muslims of Kashmir to join them invaded the state, in October 1947, killing and plundering Muslims in the state and dishonouring Muslim women, all in the interest of what they described as the liberation of Muslims of the State. In its oft-proclaimed anxiety to rescue the 3 million Muslims from what it describes as the tyranny of a handful of Hindus in the State, Pakistan evidently is prepared to sacrifice the interests of 40 million Muslims in India - a strange exhibition of concern for the welfare of fellow- Muslims. Our misguided brothers in Pakistan do not realise that if Muslims in Pakistan can wage a war against Hindus in Kashmir why should not Hindus, sooner or later, retaliate against Muslims in India.

Does Pakistan seriously think that it could give us any help if such an emergency arose or that we would deserve any help thanks to its own follies ? It is incapable of providing room and livelihood to the 40 million Muslims of India, should they migrate to Pakistan. Yet its policy and action, if not changed soon, may well produce the result which it dreads.

We are convinced that India will never attack our interests. First of all, it would be contrary to the spirit animating the political movement in this country. Secondly, it would be opposed to the Constitution and to the sincere leadership of the Prime Minister. Thirdly, India by committing such a folly would be playing straight into the hands of Pakistan.

We wish we were equally convinced of the soundness of Pakistan's policy. So completely oblivious is it of our present problems and of our future that it is willing to sell us into slavery - if only it can secure Kashmir.

It ignores the fact that Muslims in Kashmir may also have a point of view of their own, that there is a democratic movement with a democratic leadership in the State, both inspired by the progress of a broad minded, secular, democratic movement in India and both naturally being in sympathy with India. Otherwise, the Muslim raiders should have been welcomed with open arms by the Muslims of the State when the invasion took place in 1947.

Persistent propaganda about "Jehad" is intended, among other things, to inflame religious passions in this country. For it would, of course, be in Pakistan's interests to promote communal rioting in India to show to Kashmiri Muslims how they can find security only in Pakistan. Such a policy, however, can only bring untold misery and suffering to India and Pakistan generally and to Indian Muslims particularly.

Pakistan never tires of asserting that it is determined to protect the interests of Muslims in Kashmir and India. Why does not Pakistan express the same concern for Pathans who are fighting for Pakhtoonistan, an independent homeland of their own ? The freedom-loving Pathans under the leadership of Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan and Dr. Khan Sahib, both nurtured in the traditions of democratic tolerance of the Indian National Congress, are being subjected to political repression of the worst possible kind by their Muslim brethren in power in Pakistan and in the NWFP. Contradictory as Pakistan's policy generally is, it is no surprise to us that while it insists on a fair and impartial plebiscite in Kashmir, it denies a fair and impartial plebiscite to Pathans.

Pakistan's policy in general and her attitude towards Kashmir is particular thus tend to create conditions in this cauntry which in the long run can only bring to us Muslims widespread suffering and destruction. Its policy prevents us from settling down, from being honourable citizens of a State, free from suspicion of our fellow-countrymen and adapting ourselves to changing conditions to promote the interests and welfare of India. Its sabre-rattling interferes with its own economy and ours. It expects us to be layal to it despite its importance to give us any protection, believing at the same time that we can still claim all the rights of citizenship in a secular democracy.

In the event of a war, it is extremely doubtful whether it will be able to protect the Muslims of East Bengal who are completely cut off from Western Pakistan. Are the Muslims of India and Eastern Pakistan who sacrifice themselves completely to enable the 25 million Muslims in Western Pakistan to embark upon mad, self-destructive and adventures?

We should, therefore, like to impress upon you with all the emphasis at our command that Pakistan's policy towards Kashmir is fraught with the gravest peril to the 40 million Muslims of India. If the Security Council is really interested in peace human brotherhood, and international understanding, it should heed this warning while there is still time.

Dr. Zakir Hussain
(Vice Chancellor Aligarh University)
Sir Sultan Ahmed
(Former Member of Governor General's Executive Council)
Sir Mohd. Ahmed Syed Khan
(Nawab of Chhatari, former acting Governor of United Provinces and Prime Minister of Hyderabad)
Sir Mohd. Usman
(Former member of Governor General's Executive council and acting Governor of Madras)
Sir Iqbal Ahmed
(Former Chief Justice of Allahabad High Court)
Sir Fazal Rahimtoola
(Former Sheriff of Bombay)
Maulana Hafz-ur-Rehman M.P.
Col. B.H. Zaidi M.P.
Nawab Zain Yar Jung
(Minister Gcvernment of Hyderabad)
A.K. Kawaja
(Former President of Muslim Majlis)
T.M. Zarif
(General Secretary West Bengal Bohra Community)

Download PDF

Source:
Institute of Peace & Conflict Studies, India

link: Memorandum submitted by Muslim leaders of India to UN Representative: 14 August 1951 | Indian Muslims
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People talk of referendum for Kashmir but nothing like that happened for the Muslims of British India.

RK

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Understand that these men are traitors and that these men are serving the interest of there masters, not the mainstream Muslims in India. There is little doubt that the majority of Muslims in India have great sympathy with and for Pakistan, as they know the fight for Pakistan was a fight for them and the Man who led this fight his name is Governor General Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Many leader's or representatives claim to speak on the behalf of their constituents or people, however I must say the men you listed at the bottom of your post are not speaking for the mainstream Muslims of India.



If doubt lingers or resides in your mind still please look at the rooftop of the houses owned by Muslims in Kashmir and throughout India you may see this waving in the Air....:pakistan:
 
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Muslims comprise only 5% of employees in India's big government, a recent study found. The figure for Indian Railways, the country's biggest employer, is only 4.5%.
The community continues to have a paltry representation in the bureaucracy and police - 3% in the powerful Indian Civil Service, 1.8% in foreign service and only 4% in the Indian Police Service. And Muslims account for only 7.8% of the people working in the judiciary.
Indian Muslims are also largely illiterate and poor.
At just under 60%, the community's literacy rate is lower than the national average of 65%. Only half of Muslim women can read and write. As many as a quarter of Muslim children in the age-group 6-14 have either never attended school or dropped out.
They are also poor - 31% of Muslims are below the country's poverty line, just a notch above the lowest castes and tribes who remain the poorest of the poor.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

MOD EDIT: Inappropriate images.
 
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The lead article is a nice read.
Thanks for that.
Do you think if there is any rationale in Pakistan claiming Kashmir solely because it has muslim majority? India did not disown muslims. And depending on what you believe technically got instrument of accession.
 
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The lead article is a nice read.
Thanks for that.
Do you think if there is any rationale in Pakistan claiming Kashmir solely because it has muslim majority? India did not disown muslims. And depending on what you believe technically got instrument of accession.

the kashmiri muslims wanted to join pakistan and still do
as they have been under hindu rule and very much objected it
and the pakistani government supports them in their struggle against indian rule
 
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The lead article is a nice read.
Thanks for that.
Do you think if there is any rationale in Pakistan claiming Kashmir solely because it has muslim majority? India did not disown muslims. And depending on what you believe technically got instrument of accession.

Pakistan thinks that there is rationale and we think its an absurd demand. This is why dispute. In my view India should just stop entertaining Pakistan totally. Let them talk anything, but Kashmir.

RK
 
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Muslims comprise only 5% of employees in India's big government, a recent study found. The figure for Indian Railways, the country's biggest employer, is only 4.5%.
The community continues to have a paltry representation in the bureaucracy and police - 3% in the powerful Indian Civil Service, 1.8% in foreign service and only 4% in the Indian Police Service. And Muslims account for only 7.8% of the people working in the judiciary.
Indian Muslims are also largely illiterate and poor.
At just under 60%, the community's literacy rate is lower than the national average of 65%. Only half of Muslim women can read and write. As many as a quarter of Muslim children in the age-group 6-14 have either never attended school or dropped out.
They are also poor - 31% of Muslims are below the country's poverty line, just a notch above the lowest castes and tribes who remain the poorest of the poor.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

MOD EDIT: Inappropriate images.
If Muslims in India find them less representative its no government fault alone when people breed like rabbit and have more kids than they can feed its bound to happen as parents cann't send them to better school and colleges result is children lags behind ,its not the case of Muslims only but Biharis also where they just think the more kids they will have the more they earn for them. India is not developed countary only few states like Punjab and Haryana provide senior pension scheme and Muslims are more densely populated in UP and bihar where standered of living in some area is worse than African countries,the town in Punjab malerkotla u need to visit there u will find Muslims there at different level having highest standered and living life to full and u will never hear complain off racial aperthied or anything.
 
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