Indian Missiles - News, Developments, Tests, and Discussions

[Skull and Bones]

It cant fit into wing tip mean, its weight is very high than intended?

Generally, IR seeking missiles with range of about 20 km in mounted on wing tips. Active seeker missiles are heavier than IR seeker.

 

[rockstarIN]

Generally, IR seeking missiles with range of about 20 km in mounted on wing tips. Active seeker missiles are heavier than IR seeker.

Yes but it should be less than 150 kg. We need this for LCA basically.

 

[Anony]

Why the hell repeating same news 10 times a month? Members should avoid posting similar articles without any new information or official statement.

 

[Kloitra]

It cant fit into wing tip mean, its weight is very high than intended?

Generally wing tip missiles are short ranged with IR seeker, about 100 kg. Medium to long range exceed 200 kg and cant be fit on wing tips.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Yes but it should be less than 150 kg. We need this for LCA basically.

The payload of an active radar seeker is much heavier than passive IR seeker I'd worry about hit probability rather than weight for the time being.

 

[sancho]

It cant fit into wing tip mean, its weight is very high than intended?

Not higher, but some early reports suggested Astra could be a SR missile too, but the article is not a good one. Astra will be used from MKI, Migs and LCA only. The lenght should make use at upgraded M2Ks not possible and Rafale will get the MICA / METEOR combo.
However, I guess it will take time anyway, till the MK2 version is fully developed and mature enough to be operational. The MK1 version surely won't be ordered by the forces and a future use in FGFA or AMCA will require folding wings too.

Yes but it should be less than 150 kg. We need this for LCA basically.

LCA carries BVR missiles at the mid and internal hardpoints, so weight won't be an issue here. The external hardpoint with 150Kg limit is for SR missiles only and as of now, only R73s will be used, although MICA IR would add some good advantages too.

 

[Manindra]

I want induction report instead of such kind of news

 

[IND151]

With successful captive trials completed in April, and a fully reconfigured missile now ready for the next phase of development testing, India’s indigenous beyond visual range air-to-air missile Astra is set for its debut firing from an aircraft by the end of this year. As first reported in SP’s Aviation in March this year, 2013 has been christened ‘Astra Year’ by DRDO in light of expectations that the Astra beyond visual range air-to-air missile will finally see a flight test firing from an IAF aircraft.

Now, it is confirmed that it will happen. It has also now learnt that while the base version Astra Mk.1 will have an intercept range of 44 km, it will be the Astra Mk.2 that will be a true force multiplier weapon, with an intercept range in excess of 100 km. That, at any rate, is the intended configuration. The Astra will be deployed from underwing hardpoints on the Su-30MKI, not wingtip pylons as earlier intended. The Astra is an all-weather all aspect beyond visual range and close combat missile that will be deployed on the IAF’s LCA Tejas, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 and possible, the Rafale MMRCA in the future too. The missile sports active radar terminal guidance (dual mode guidance), smokeless propulsion, improve electronic counter-countermeasures and what the DRDO calls improved effectiveness in a multi-target scenario.

Astra missile to be fired, two variants revealed | idrw.org

 

[Gessler]

LCA carries BVR missiles at the mid and internal hardpoints, so weight won't be an issue here. The external hardpoint with 150Kg limit is for SR missiles only and as of now, only R73s will be used, although MICA IR would add some good advantages too.

What about Python-5?

 

[MilSpec]

Not higher, but some early reports suggested Astra could be a SR missile too, but the article is not a good one. Astra will be used from MKI, Migs and LCA only. The lenght should make use at upgraded M2Ks not possible and Rafale will get the MICA / METEOR combo.
However, I guess it will take time anyway, till the MK2 version is fully developed and mature enough to be operational. The MK1 version surely won't be ordered by the forces and a future use in FGFA or AMCA will require folding wings too.

It's desi sraam/mraam, we should push to integrate it on everything we fly (atleast the sraam mk1 version), even the AJT if we can, DARIN III is proposing sticking couple of SRAAM's DARE III wants to give the same a2a defensive cap to Mig 27's, I say we should try to stick the both the versions on everything we fly. And It would be pretty good if we can stick a few on the frenchies, thier munitions cost an arm and a leg plus a kidney!!!

Can you please explain the length issue with m2k,

 

[sancho]

It's desi sraam/mraam, we should push to integrate it on everything we fly (atleast the sraam mk1 version), even the AJT if we can, DARIN III is proposing sticking couple of SRAAM's DARE III wants to give the same a2a defensive cap to Mig 27's, I say we should try to stick the both the versions on everything we fly. And It would be pretty good if we can stick a few on the frenchies, thier munitions cost an arm and a leg plus a kidney!!!

Can you please explain the length issue with m2k,

It's a BVR missile with a radar seeker, so requires a radar to use it and as I always say, it's capability that counts, not origin. We can't afford to use low capable missiles only to please some pride reasons!

The upgraded M2Ks, will have the additional fuselage hardpoint stations, which will be used for MICA missiles, but in between them is the gear bay, which means any payload at this hardpoints has lenght limitations.

MICA lenght: 3.10m
Astra lenght: 3.57m


Also Astra was developed as a replacement for R27 and R77 missiles on the Mig 29s and MKIs, or LCA/Mig 29K, but it seems that Astra MK1 didn't met the goals, additional R27s and Derby for LCA were procured.

What about Python-5?

That was Israeli PR at Aero India, not based on IAF or IN orders, so far no Indian official had confirmed it and IAF seems to be happy with the R73. Another reason why Python V and HMS for Jags is such a waste.

 

[MilSpec]

It's a BVR missile with a radar seeker, so requires a radar to use it and as I always say, it's capability that counts, not origin. We can't afford to use low capable missiles only to please some pride reasons!

The upgraded M2Ks, will have the additional fuselage hardpoint stations, which will be used for MICA missiles, but in between them is the gear bay, which means any payload at this hardpoints has lenght limitations.

MICA lenght: 3.10m
Astra lenght: 3.57m


Also Astra was developed as a replacement for R27 and R77 missiles on the Mig 29s and MKIs, or LCA/Mig 29K, but it seems that Astra MK1 didn't met the goals, additional R27s and Derby for LCA were procured.




That was Israeli PR at Aero India, not based on IAF or IN orders, so far no Indian official had confirmed it and IAF seems to be happy with the R73. Another reason why Python V and HMS for Jags is such a waste.

First, I think you are wrong about your length concerns... Hint: R27 4.08 m is qualified on with the mirage m2k in 2000 if I can remember correctly.

Next about the active homing radar on astra, we do use mica, r27, r77 active homing versions, unless Astra's v1 and v2's capabilities are proven, there is no need to dismiss it as incapable. The reason I am stating this is because I know who is collaborating in developing the seeker for this missile.

I still think Astra mk2 will be able to replace a few BVR's that are taking us to the cleaners...

 

[sancho]

First, I think you are wrong about your length concerns... Hint: R27 4.08 m is qualified on with the mirage m2k in 2000 if I can remember correctly.

I guess you confused it with the R73 that sometimes is said to be integrated to the M2K and secondly our current M2Ks don't have the rear fuselage hardpoints, they carry missiles only at the wingstations:

These obviously don't have size limitations, but occupy the wet stations, which is the benefit of the new hardpoints and MICA. In any strike mission the M2K-5 can carry 2 x large fuel tanks and IR missiles at the wings, up to 4 x MICAs at the fuselage stations and strike weapons at the centerline.
Btw the size limitation and further use of French M2Ks should be the reason why they considering upgraded MICAs now, since METEOR can't be used from these fuselage stations either.

The reason I am stating this is because I know who is collaborating in developing the seeker for this missile.

I didn't said that the seeker would be an issue, only that it's an EM missile and require radar guidance, the problem seems to be the range, since 80Km was the goal, but as the reports shows, the MK1 version has roughly half of it yet.

 

[MilSpec]

I guess you confused it with the R73 that sometimes is said to be integrated to the M2K and secondly our current M2Ks don't have the rear fuselage hardpoints, they carry missiles only at the wingstations:

These obviously don't have size limitations, but occupy the wet stations, which is the benefit of the new hardpoints and MICA. In any strike mission the M2K-5 can carry 2 x large fuel tanks and IR missiles at the wings, up to 4 x MICAs at the fuselage stations and strike weapons at the centerline.
Btw the size limitation and further use of French M2Ks should be the reason why they considering upgraded MICAs now, since METEOR can't be used from these fuselage stations either.



I didn't said that the seeker would be an issue, only that it's an EM missile and require radar guidance, the problem seems to be the range, since 80Km was the goal, but as the reports shows, the MK1 version has roughly half of it yet.

I am actually not confused about the missile that was qualified , and yes I was referring to wet station , carrying r27, the reason for qualifying r27 and r77 both of Mirage is due to the RVV PD and MD. This Mirage configuration is with single centerline drop tank, and two mraam's for critical cap. With MKI's in good numbers I dont see it's utility anymore though.

 

[sancho]

I am actually not confused about the missile that was qualified , and yes I was referring to wet station , carrying r27, the reason for qualifying r27 and r77 both of Mirage is due to the RVV PD and MD.

Not even the Mig 29s had R77s integrated yet, so no way the M2K had and please explain the relation to RVV...?

This Mirage configuration is with single centerline drop tank, and two mraam's for critical cap.

Not really, because the centerline fuel tank is just a smaller one and provide it will limited endurance only. That's actually an interception config, while the CAP config of the upgraded fighters usually include the bigger wingtanks, since the EM missiles can be carried at the fuselage. More importantly though, in strike config, the M2K wouldn't have any hardpoint left for BVR missiles, without the new fuesalage stations, so in both roles MICA will be the missile for it and that's why IAF procured a pretty good number of it.
Rafale can add Astra in a mixed config, as a more cost effective BVR missile, but MICA IR would be more suitable for Rafales passive BVR attack capabilities and it would be silly to limit this only for indigenous missiles.