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Indian Military Picture Thread

Clearly you didnt my earlier post.....enlighten yourself and then argue....
Yes I did. Your reasoning makes no sense. Grabbing attention by killing Kashmiris is a double edged sword. It would result in loss of local support. Now if you say Pandits (who are a minority I believe), have been driven out without any public backlash from the majority, then I can sympathize with them (the Pandits) as sectarian rifts have been exploited.

Secondly, you highlight a very important point "Even real world terrorists have political objectives, and oh they don't attack their own native population to achieve it."......Which bring us to the next part of the argument.....
How the hell do you know that these are even Kashmiri??
Yes, real "freedom fighters" dont kill their kin, but Pakistani terrorists who have been propped to wage a proxy war in India do!!!.....You answered your own question......

I won't even need to answer this conclusively. Time will tell itself. If the Kashmiris do not consider these fighters to be legitimate representatives of their interests then the war has already been decided in your favor. Otherwise it doesn't matter how long India keeps it million man army stationed, its foot hold will always be shaky. No militancy will survive long without sympathy from the local populace or be able to inflict any longterm damage.

Secondly, Hypocrisy wreaks in your post since you justify and call the people attacking Pakistani establishments as terrorists and militants and then defer to calling these scumbags "freedom fighters"......What goes around comes around.....

I think you didn't read my post correctly. Where did I use the term "freedom fighters"? This is something which Kashmiris will decide upon. Gubbi has picked up the subtler point and I have given my reasoning. For those reasons alone, I would stick to calling rebels in BLA as militants (disregarding recent attacks on civilians in Quetta).
 
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I have sympathies with your friends. Most certainly you don't need to trust my words -
Indian Army and Police Tied to Kashmir Killings
A Brief Catalogue of Indian Atrocities in Kashmir
Those threads are based on sources which are at best questionable. Irrelevant.
This is where our viewpoints fundamentally diverge. We recognize Kashmir as disputed territory whereas you guys don't. A civilian population picking up arms under "false pretensions" is most certainly engaged in rebellion. However, if this were to happen in any proper territory of the state then it wouldn't be justifiable.
Agree about the Kashmir part, but destroying govt machinery is unjustified, whatever the excuse. Since Kashmir is an integral part of India, Kashmiris enjoy the same freedoms and rights as do the rest of the population (unlike those in Azad Kashmir or Palestine) and Indian constitution protects their rights as Indians. But when they pick up a gun, their rights are suspended, including the right to life!
There are still quite a few spiders in the cupboards who haven't been dug out yet and most likely never will (after all who will account for atrocities of the 90's and even recent ones).
What does that mean? Unknown unknowns? Lol, provide examples.
You are most welcome to do the above mentioned. It takes two to make a decent fight. Isn't this what a rebellion and counter insurgency all about?
Nope, COIN is to flush out insurgents. Rebellion is what you do in your teenage years against your parents' authority!
In my view, in this case the "excuse" is too hard to ignore as I have already explained in the beginning. Again if the "State" is so important to you that you become blinded of the sentiments of the people that constitute it then what good is it for the "State" to exist in such a fascist nature. According to your argument the war of 1857, the protests against colonial rule (both armed and unarmed) in the 1900s, the resistance movement of Subhas Chandra Bose are all unjustified. Then why don't we voluntarily surrender our territory to the British and apologize for our past violent and savage ways.
The Brits cunningly used flags to claim India!! (check out Eddie Izzard + Flags on youtube). On a serious note, they were not natives to the land and as such cannot claim it as theirs. Freedom struggle was justified since they imposed their own laws onto a population that had nothing to do with formulating those laws. With Kashmir, it is a part of the subcontinent with many commonalities including languages, culture, people etc. Now since the Kashmiri King signed the Instrument of accession (Pakistanis do not believe in that document and refuse to believe that it exists. Anyway not a topic for this thread) agreeing to accede to India, Kashmir is an integral part of India. Pakistan considers it as disputed territory. We consider that meddling in India's internal affairs.
Failure in the past to give due consideration to these has led to this point.
You are right to a certain extent on this one. I partially agree with you here. But still cannot/does not justify violence!
Fighting to impose an ideology and then slaughtering civilians in broad day light is in no way justified and hence are clear acts of terrorism. Could the same be shown about Kashmiri militants in a credible manner? Are Kashmiri militants fighting to impose their rule upon the population?
What do you think these terrorists are doing in Kashmir? Imposing their pervert wahabi ideology, suppressing Sufism in Kashmir (majority of Kashmiri muslims follow sufism), ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri pundits (surprisingly they were the first voices calling for Kashmiri independence!), wanting to impose Sharia law etc.
AS to the killing of civilians, please do check neutral sources (neither Pakistani nor Indian)
PS: I would like to clarify my comments earlier which may have miffed some here. When I said "probably branded terrorists", it doesn't mean some of them couldn't have been militants (again I would refrain from calling them terrorists unless they have been shown to engage in deliberate attacks on civilians - terrorist is a much abused word in modern times). However, in due consideration of the past record of IA and in absence of independent verification, it is entirely possible some of those could be civilians.
A very wrong assumption. So you want to give benefit of doubt to the dead but not to those who are trying to bring about peace and normalcy?
Terrorists are terrorists. There are no two interpretations to it!
 
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None of you answered a simple logical question and tried to derail the discussion with wild excuses and straw man attacks.

Not all of the rhetoric that the IA and GOI parrot is necessarily true. The only way to judge the information is to analyze the argument on its own merit. The past record of IA is not good with regard to transparency in its operations. Several people have been killed so that a bounty could be collected, a promotion hastened, or media publicity gained. One is only left to wonder how much info they dump out is for real. Even real world terrorists have political objectives, and oh they don't attack their own native population to achieve it. The cases I have read about of civilians getting killed in militant attacks were where the civilians got caught in cross fire, and got the bullet from either the security forces and the militants. In these instances both of them are guilty of terrorism and cannot be justified. IA has also been separately involved in extra judicial killings. Apart from this, fighting which is purely between armed parties cannot be technically classified as terrorism (yes this holds true even in Pakistan, but here the militants don't have any justified reasons for their attacks).

Now you are talking about the "justified reasons" and your reason is very simple , since pakistan is supporting these terrorist organizations it is justified.
 
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^^^ Don't play twister when the tank is approaching.:cheers:
 
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Why don't you walk down a street in Srinagar and talk to the local people about these terrorists? Its so easy to sit in a cosy apartment in front of a computer screen and formulate wild conspiracy theories usually under the influence of hallucinogens!

Only people living on a fools paradise would suggest Indian Military machine would allow *any* Pakistani enter Srinagar.


If you even care little about the plight of Kashmiris and are honest about their cause then why don't you take the initiative to go and inquire about their conditions?
 
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Only people living on a fools paradise would suggest Indian Military machine would allow *any* Pakistani enter Srinagar.
Very smart comment! Kudos. And very true. You dont want to enter Kashmir/Srinagar, trust me, and not only because of the Indian forces there!
If you even care little about the plight of Kashmiris and are honest about their cause then why don't you take the initiative to go and inquire about their conditions?
You speak for the Kashmiris? How many Kashmiri Muslims do you know personally? What do you know what exactly is going on in the streets of Kashmir now? Why should I listen to you when you have no credibility wrt Kashmir?
 
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Apparently some of the members here couldnt stomach a few dead terrorists and this thread crashed and burned - much like India and Pakistan's Peace process! :coffee:

Anybody have picture to post or are is there going to be more rhetoric about Kashmir ? :argh:

Yudh Abhyas 09 was just completed and USARPAC 2-14 CAV Stykerhorse is going to Afghanistan to do its business of killing terrorists. I cant post links yet but they are there online.
 
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Yudh Abyas 09:

StykeHorse:

Range OP:

FRG Message:
 
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Yudh Abhyas 09 was just completed and USARPAC 2-14 CAV Stykerhorse is going to Afghanistan to do its business of killing terrorists. I cant post links yet but they are there online.

The 2-14th returned from Iraq six months ago, and is slated to return in about nine months.
 
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