Indian lies exposed over mumbai attack.

[LaBong]

Well we will have to detach the discussion from Muslim/Hindu Punjabis then .. for example Ghouri was killed near Jhelum by Gakhars/khokhar. People might have had an easy pass through Punjab with a huge army but while returning their caravans were always ambushed.

Ghouri was assassinated while offering namaz, he didnt have to face a resistance and his death didnt end his empire.

Caravans were attacked to loot the bounty the invaders would have collected from Delhi/ganjetic plain, that too was minor irritant to invaders.

Indian society was deeply devided along the caste line, while Hindu khatris traditionally adopted military role as well as trading, muslim punjabis, mostly jatts and gurjars, were traditionally farmers and landlords. Sikhs were militaristic religion from beginning.

 

[dray]

______________________________________________________________________________________

By- Moeed Pirzada

thanks! to Nasir Bhatti who once again reminded us of this video, the Confessional Video of Ajmal Kasab...

http://www.ndtv.com/…/the-confessions-of-ajmal-kasab/255625…

Most Indians can'nt see or understand or recognize what a Pakistani Punjabi immediately sees in this video. This man on the hospital bed does not speak like a Pakistani Punjabi, his accent is a natural Indian; though he is trying to speak like a Pakistani Punjabi but yet there are words like "Shadi" which are totally alien to Pakistani Punjabis but are part of natural language of Hindi speakers. There are many other words. Few years ago we had seen and discussed on this page a longer vide of this man in which he referred to "Bhagvan" and we wondered what kind of Jihadi he was who within 24 hours of his chilling fanatic act of mass murder was now referring to Bhagvan. Even otherwise the confessional video in which this Jihadi agent of Lashkar was singing like a canary, revealing everything, giving away everything, telling all and holding no secrets and saying all that fitted into the overall narrative of the Indian republic was far too good to believe. And all that immediately after the act of "mass murder". To any objective mind that carefully analyses this video, this becomes obvious that this man on the hospital bed is not a Pakistani Punjabi.

One struggles to resolve this mystery. But there could be many explanations for this. Indian agencies might have reason to believe that whatever happened, was done by Pakistan based militants but they did not have solid proof. They might have actual Ajmal Kasab along with all his identity in their custody, who must have been a Pakistani trained militant, some one who crossed into India from Nepal several months ago. They introduced their own man, a rough look alike on hospital bed, to create evidence for the world. Most Indians cannot see through this "accent issue" and English speaking world will not understand at all. Indians did a master stroke in creating evidence. Some one plugged or used GEO to go to Faridkot, the village of real Ajmal Kasab to prove that Ajaml Kasab belonged there. This is called bolstering the evidence. It will be interesting to find one day that who plugged GEO onto this lead. But no one in that moment of chaos asked: Yes! Ajmal Kasab exists, was born and raised in this village but wait a minute, Is the man on hospital bed the same Ajmal Kasab from Farid Kot?

This contradiction will explain why Indian agencies never allowed Pakistani consular access to Ajmal Kasab, why Pakistani investigators from FIA never allowed to question or cross-examine him. However it also raises the million dollar question that why Pakistani governments/agencies have never raised this issue in public? what keeps them silent?

All what I have written, does not absolve Pakistan, Lashkar or Pakistani agencies of the terrorism in Mumbai. There is much we don't know and much that puts the blame on Pakistan. All what the video points out is that for some reason - perhaps the need to beef up evidence for the world - Indian intelligence decided to use a look alike of real Ajmal Kasab. They did a reasonably good job, its just that in their rush they did not have time to polish his accent and only Pakistani Punjabis could detect that "this is not one of them"

One day we will find the whole truth about Mumbai 26/11. Unfortunately it will be too late for most of us.

______________________________________________________________________________________

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@air marshal @Akheilos @aks18 @Al Bhatti @al-Hasani @American Pakistani @araz @Areesh @Armstrong @AsianUnion @Aslan @atatwolf @balixd @batmannow @BD4ever @bilal @Bratva @cb4 @Chak Bamu @chauvunist @Cheetah786 @Chinese-Dragon @Dalit @dark Vader @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @dexter @Donatello @DRaisinHerald @engineer saad @faisal6309 @Falcon29 @farhan_9909 @fatman17 @FaujHistorian @Fulcrum15 @ghazi52 @ghazaliy2k @ghoul @Green Arrow
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@WAJsal @war khan @Winchester @Windjammer @Xeric @Zaalim @zaid butt @Zarvan
@@(And all PDF baradarie)
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I am more worried about the 24 Pakistanis who have liked the article so far! So, people like Zaid Hamid is not rare in Pakistan!!

Oh wait! @BDforever is also one of them!! A believer of Kasab=Amar Singh theory!!

 

[Norwegian]

Sure, anyone can have intense debates and come to the desired conclusion.

Yeah, sure like all Western man-made laws were "desired" from the very beginning. That's why it took Westerners hundreds of years to (coughing) arrive at the present level through process of gradual reforms.

Pakistan also had "intense debates" about Ahmedis before coming to a conclusion.

It was a decision taken for ill intent and for malicious purposes. No wonder why majority of parliamentarians from PPP were hesitating to vote on the bill, even when they had absolute majority in the house.

The fact remains that, contrary to your assertions, European countries have laws that discriminate for or against specific religions. They are just couched as cultural issues.

Yes, they have made laws against certain religious practices which in their view are inhumane, barbaric or not to any benefit for humanity naturally. Male circumcision for instance was banned for a while. Female mutation is permanently banned, even when some nutjob wants to perform it on religious grounds. Banning certain very old religious practices means restricting it with modern society's accepted norms. It doesn't mean complete banishment from religious practice as is the case with Qadianis in Pakistanis or Baha'is in Iran.

The only BS here is yours who got caught out trying to use the phrase "Judeo-Christian" to sound fancy without having a clue. YOU wrote that religious tolerance was due to Judeo-Christian background, which is a ludicrous assertion.

I know what Judeo-Christian means. Israel too is a Judeo-Christian country, same as US. Both countries share similar ethics and historic roots at the national level. Then some whine why US is so pro Israel and vice versa. For your information, Qadianis, Baha'is, Druze and other religions are free practiced in Israel, unlike their Palestinian or Arab counterparts. Why? Because their politico-cultural values are Judeo-Christian and not Islamic.

 

[Adecypher]

@Norwegian & @Developereo

My humble request to both of you is to remain on the topic of this thread. There is "no denying" that both of you have immense knowledge on the subject you guys are debating about and have obviously your own inclinations and point of views but it would be really beneficial for "new recruits" like myself to gain some more insight iff you both come back to main topic of this thread.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah, sure like all Western man-made laws were "desired" from the very beginning. That's why it took Westerners hundreds of years to (coughing) arrive at the present level through process of gradual reforms.

I love the way you are doing the dance of evasion. The discussion is about the specific laws under discussion, not a general treatise on the legal system.

The fact remains that the laws I mentioned are a manifestation of religious bigotry masquerading as "cultural" issues. There is a famous saying, "the accused will be given a fair trial before being hanged".

Not everyone is fooled by the masquerade of "intense debates".

It was a decision taken for ill intent and for malicious purposes. No wonder why majority of parliamentarians from PPP were hesitating to vote on the bill, even when they had absolute majority in the house.

I gave that as an example of "intense debates" to legitimze a predetermined conclusion.

Yes, they have made laws against certain religious practices which in their view are inhumane, barbaric or not to any benefit for humanity naturally. Male circumcision for instance was banned for a while. Female mutation is permanently banned, even when some nutjob wants to perform it on religious grounds. Banning certain very old religious practices means restricting it with modern society's accepted norms. It doesn't mean complete banishment from religious practice as is the case with Qadianis in Pakistanis or Baha'is in Iran.

More evasive dancing. Stick to the issue which was your fallacious claim that European countries do not have laws targeting specific religious practices. You were wrong and are dancing all over the place to save face.

I know what Judeo-Christian means. Israel too is a Judeo-Christian country, same as US. Both countries share similar ethics and historic roots at the national level. Then some whine why US is so pro Israel and vice versa. For your information, Qadianis, Baha'is, Druze and other religions are free practiced in Israel, unlike their Palestinian or Arab counterparts. Why? Because their politico-cultural values are Judeo-Christian and not Islamic.

This is not about the definition of the phrase judeo-christian. Everyone here understands what it means.
It is about your ludicrous claim that religious tolerance was due to judeo-christian background. That claim was false and, once again, you are dancing all over the place to avoid admitting that your assertion was wrong.

@Norwegian & @Developereo

My humble request to both of you is to remain on the topic of this thread. There is "no denying" that both of you have immense knowledge on the subject you guys are debating about and have obviously your own inclinations and point of views but it would be really beneficial for "new recruits" like myself to gain some more insight iff you both come back to main topic of this thread.

Reasonable.
I don't even know what Sharia law and Europe have to do with this subject in the first place.

 

[Bang Galore]

I was shocked to see Dr Shahid's Fire worship video about Peshwar ....

I wouldn't say I was shocked but it reminds you that even people who are not necessarily on the lunatic side can be quite loony at times.To put out that piece of crap really makes you wonder about Pakistan & Pakistanis generally.

 

[Norwegian]

More evasive dancing. Stick to the issue which was your fallacious claim that European countries do not have laws targeting specific religious practices. You were wrong and are dancing all over the place to save face.

Wrong. I said no Western nation has laws that persecute religious minorities. All religions can be practiced freely here in the West. There is a fine line between systematic religious persecution as evident in Islamic countries and certain restrictions placed on practice of religion as witnessed in Western secular states. Since you fail to see the difference, hence your conclusion I was wrong.

It is about your ludicrous claim that religious tolerance was due to judeo-christian background. That claim was false and, once again, you are dancing all over the place to avoid admitting that your assertion was wrong.

Wrong. I didn't say Western nations are tolerant of other religions because they follow judeo-christian law, rather judeo-christian ethics and values through centuries. These judeo-christian ethics are widely agreed and shared between US and Israel, but they also differ from country to country in Europe.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Pakistan must say clearly say that they did 26/11 and don't want to play the hard ball.

who are you to force Pakistan to say what Pakistan didnt do it.. Mumbai incidence was an indian job.
its hard to swollow truth. but you cant change it by screaming..

 

[RescueRanger]

Reading the thread, the thing that came to mind was that we need an immediate "branding" strategy for what we want Pakistan to be and what image we want to project. We as Pakistanis have the "Analysis" Kera in our bones, this "kera/worm" forces us to spend countless hours of energy researching and rebuking history, and when it comes to history there is a famous saying my grandfather would always mention:

"We are all omnibuses in which our ancestors ride, and every now and then one of them sticks his head out and embarrasses us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes.

I have had been blessed by god in the sense that I have had the good fortune of travelling the world and experiencing how successful nations have managed to compete in an ever competitive market, but not only that, these nations some with the odds stacked against them, lack of human capital, capital flight, lack of investment, poverty, illiteracy etc... Have managed to develop a foothold on the global economic stage.

Whilst politics, analysis and debate are wondrous things, I always found it intriguing that the CSS exam preparation book required you to write up an essay of no less than 1500 words on "international relations", when one could easily write a dissertation on "What's wrong with Pakistan and how can civil servants fix it".

Looking back at our rich history, we were blessed with everything a fledgling nation needed, everything except true leadership which was denied to us after the passing of our beloved founding father M.A. Jinnah, looking back I can see why my grandfather would mention, Pakistan was more than just an "Islamic Nation", it was hope for the hopeless, shelter for the homeless and the Chand Tara that would be our shining light in an uncertain future.

This documentary produced in the early 50's on Pakistan conveys that very same message, one of hope, prosperity and growth.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//Promise of Pakistan - Very Old and Rare Documentary on Pakistan" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="

" target="_blank">Promise of Pakistan - Very Old and Rare...</a> <i>by <a href="AmeenAkbar - Dailymotion" target="_blank">AmeenAkbar</a></i>

But somewhere along the quest for progress, we let ourselves be shut in my religious bigots and goose-stepped towards an era of xenophobia, bigotry and narrow-mindedness. Instead of following through on the seed of hope and prosperity our ancestors planted, we tilled the land with different motives, blinded by hate and fear and fertilizing our beloved soil with the blood of innocents.

Here is an excerpt taken from Hector Bilotho's "Jinnah Creator of Pakistan":

"I asked him to close his eyes and to see, once more, the coloured glass marbles in the dust. Nanji Jafar closed his eyes and deeper into his memory: then he told his only anecdote of Jinnah’s boyhood. One morning, when Nanji Jafar was playing in the street, Jinnah, then aged about fourteen, came up to him and said, “Don’t play marbles in the dust; it spoils your clothes and dirties your hands. We must stand up and play cricket.”

The boys in Newnham Road were obedient: they gave up playing marbles and allowed Jinnah to lead them from the dusty street to a bright field where he brought his bat and stumps for them to use. When he sailed for England at the age of sixteen, he gave Nanji Jafar his bat and said, “You will go on teaching the boys to play cricket while I am away.”

All Jinnah’s story is in the boyhood dictum – “Stand up from the dust so that your clothes are unspoiled and your hands clean for the tasks that fall to them…."

Our ancestors loved Pakistan for what it cost them, they had real value for what this soil is worth, the generations that came after just lost the way, blinded by greed and corruption, sullying their hands with blood, soiling their hearts with greed and coveting that which they cannot have.

Our neighbour on the other hand has taken that seed and despite her too having the same ills as us has progressed from once a developing agricultural nation into an economic juggernaut, and that growth came from hard work and sweat from the from brows of men and women, but also from strong leadership.

I would urge people to read "The Elusive Quest for growth" by William Easterly. It is an eye opener. Coming back to my opening statement, we as Pakistanis need to work towards branding the "Image" and "Identity" of Pakistan as we want the world to see it. For the future of our children and their children after them.

Al-Jazeera "Empire" covered this subject perfectly:
McAmerica: The Success Secrets of Brand USA - Empire - Al Jazeera English

In closing, a nation without a leader is like a ship without a compass in stormy seas.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@RescueRanger; Sir.. well said, I salute your post. May I join you in praying for what the author of the wise words in the last three paras says. We are now at the cusp of yet another year in our lives. May I wish you, your family and countrymen well, with Hope for the Future.

 

[SrNair]

Some nations have golden mine of Conspiracy theories .Mumbai attacks caused a lot of economic ,diplomatic and security effect to us.
The entire movements of Pak terrorists were regularly watched by US,UK and Indian security agencies.
Still they are looking for conspiracies .
About the influence of Indian accents.
Pakistanis knows themselves the Indian cultural influence in their nations.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Some nations have golden mine of Conspiracy theories .Mumbai attacks caused a lot of economic ,diplomatic and security effect to us.
The entire movements of Pak terrorists were regularly watched by US,UK and Indian security agencies.
Still they are looking for conspiracies .
About the influence of Indian accents.
Pakistanis knows themselves the Indian cultural influence in their nations.

seriously, you have no idea what you talking about
migrated bangali, tamil etc after 60 years in Pakistan can pronounce properly
ajmal was muslim and he was calling Baghwan.. muslim doesnt use Baghwan word at all.
Bhains kay agay bean bajanay say kil milay ga mujhay..

 

[SrNair]

seriously, you have no idea what you talking about
migrated bangali, tamil etc after 60 years in Pakistan can pronounce properly
ajmal was muslim and he was calling Baghwan.. muslim doesnt use Baghwan word at all.
Bhains kay agay bean bajanay say kil milay ga mujhay..

Lol

You have one Bhagwan.
World have evidences of 3 intelligence agencies.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Lol

You have one Bhagwan.
World have evidences of 3 intelligence agencies.

wat was so funny?
if i say somthing about Baghwan you wont sit in peace..

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

Lol

You have one Bhagwan.
World have evidences of 3 intelligence agencies.

Nah! mate you guys have one word in your dictionary and that is ISI, which you guys use in every now and then.