Indian LCH, new threat for Pakistan in Siachin and Kashmir?

[GURU DUTT]

Can Apache do cobra dance as ur mki ?

in short right now the deal is for 22 AH-64E,s + option for another 11 "for IAF" + IAF has already orderred 64 LCH

whereas IA wants 33 AH-64Es + has ordered 114 LCH for its own air arm

rest you can speculate yourself

and yes we have been flying one squad each of Mi-25s and Mi-35 for more than two decades ..... cheers mate

 

[GR!FF!N]

can you provide a source to validate your claim?

Rudra is powered by two HAL/Turbomeca Ardiden 1H1 (Shakti) turboshafts with each engine delivering a maximum continuous power of 1,067kW. The operation of each is controlled by a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system. The Shakti power plants give the helicopter a maximum continuous speed of 270 kmph. The VNE or never exceed speed of Rudra is 300 kmph. More importantly, Rudra can fly at a maximum altitude of 6 km (20,000 ft) which means it can successfully engage ‘Kargil/Siachen’ type of targets in the Indian context – a capability sorely missed during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

..:: India Strategic ::. Army: Indian Army inducts 'Rudras'into its Air Wing

Actually Rudra is Dhruv Mk IV.Dhruv Mk III is capable of landing in siachen.

here is entire specification and details of Dhruv Mk III operating at 21000 ft with load(600 kg/4 soldiers).

Broadsword: In Siachen, Dhruv proves a world-beater

previous trials..

LIVEFIST: SPECIAL: Dhruv Shakti In Siachen

regarding the z-10 there are 3 in pakistan undergoing testing. and i would guarantee the testing program would include high altitude testing. yes iaf did use mi-17's during the kargill war. which i assume is for transporting troops to inaccessible areas that cant be reached by foot/road.

Not only Mi-17 carried troops,but in the Battle of Tololing,Mi-17s carried out Gunship role.Even though India had Mi-25/35,IAF said these are unable to fight in that altitude.and thats what I highlighted.

i dont know in-depth about the kargil war. but based on the details in the link, the mil-35 were based in pathakot, which is near kashmir but not near kargil. but where as srinagar and leh is near kargil and were used and mil-17 were used stationed and used. also srinagar based mig-21's which were used in the kargil war and some were lost as well as mil-17's. to anza manpads.

Scramble

Actually No.Read IAF's statement.And It is not Anza,rather one Mi-17 was lost when it took 3 Stinger hits while performing Gunship role.

Here are details...

A request was also made for Mi-25/35 gunships to attack the points occupied by the intruders. This request was made with increased urgency again on May 10. It was then explained that these gunships had not, till then, crossed the Zojila Pass due to their weight/altitude restrictions (Well after the Kargil Ops, the IAF successfully flew a stripped down Mi-35 across the Zojila Pass during winter when temperature and air density conditions are favourable, and carried out firing practice).

Zozila Pass' Altitude is merely 3528 m.

Most Helos' Flight Ceiling is based on Clean mode(Where they either carry little or no payload at all).Also,there are various kind of restrictions regarding Temparature,Air density etc.Thats I wanted to highlight.There is no proof Z-10 has gone through altitudes and conditions like Leh,forget about Siachen.Let them test first.

and another thing,I can't post the link of the quote due to forum rules.Please search "Kargil-10 years after" in Google.You can get some wonderful details about Air Operations in Kargil War.

Pakistani lost around 450 on its side

Pakistan never officially stated a figure about Casualties.It started as couple of dozen,then became couple of hundreds,and then couple of thousands.Nawaz Shariff himself stated that Pakistan lost "more than 4000 soldiers" in Kargil,I think he excluded the numbers of "Mercenaries/Terrorists" operating with Pakistan Army.

Indian estimate is Pakistan lost 4000-6000 soldiers in Kargil.Nawaz's statement only confirmed our "Estimate".

'Over 4,000 Pakistanis died in Kargil conflict'

 

[FULL_METAL]

These guys are not any problem for our AkAks. MANPADs and orliekons will take care of them in case of a conflict. They don't look like an attack helicopter to be honest. Even Indians are not taking them seriously, thats why they are opting for Apaches.

mere piyere Gazwe kindly fix ur flag, why falsefalgging for a country u hate so much?

 

[thrilainmanila]

No It was 4000 soldiers were killed on Pakistani side. It is 8 against one soldier of India.

This is said by non other than the PM of Pakistan Mr. Nawaz Sharif.

The Hindu : Over 4,000 soldiers killed in Kargil: Sharif

they weren't even 4000 army personal operating in kargil the actual figures are 800-1000, even the indian army doesn't admit to killing this many.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Service ceiling without understanding other metrics is a completely useless analysis. There is a reason the Pakis went for Mi-35 rather than the Z-10 which was being heavily pushed by the Chinese. The ROC (Rate of Climb) is atrocious for the Z-10, and only slightly better for the Mi-35.

Edit: Also apparent is the useful payload. The Mi-35 was designed for close air support to ground troops and the Z-10 was built to break up heavy armour formations. Neither of them are really designed for high-altitude combat, they have other advantages though in regular altitude combat, but not for mountainous regions.

hi,
the graphic you posted is useless and biased and incorrect and im going to ignore it. also the author has an indian name. so i would expect it to be biased. the mil 35 to my knowledge is not for high altitude warfare. its an assault gunship provide fire and ground troops. basically the z-10 and the mil-35 are for differant uses. like the lch and the rudra. i agree with what you say about the mil-35's use of bing close ground support.the z-10 you sort of got its purpose. but not entirley. the z-10 is being developed to operate in high altitude. with a wz-16 engine, and more payload and different rotor's.

Do you know that LCH engine is going to be updated with 20% more power and the same is going to used in LUH also?

do you have any source to validate your claim? if so please provide it .

And what is the weight of Z 10.As name suggest, LCH is a light weight CHopper packing a big power punch.

????????

 

[saadee]

You gotta be kidding. LCH is not mature as Ah-64 so Anza will do the rest for us. Even AH 64 will run for its life when Anza is involved.

 

[HariPrasad]

hi,
the graphic you posted is useless and biased and incorrect and im going to ignore it. also the author has an indian name. so i would expect it to be biased. the mil 35 to my knowledge is not for high altitude warfare. its an assault gunship provide fire and ground troops. basically the z-10 and the mil-35 are for differant uses. like the lch and the rudra. i agree with what you say about the mil-35's use of bing close ground support.the z-10 you sort of got its purpose. but not entirley. the z-10 is being developed to operate in high altitude. with a wz-16 engine, and more payload and different rotor's.


do you have any source to validate your claim? if so please provide it .


????????

As you said LCH's Engine is more powerfull but what about the weight of choper? Weight is as much important as the power of chopper. LCH has Light weight and high power. That gives it an ability to carry heavy load at high altitude.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You gotta be kidding. LCH is not mature as Ah-64 so Anza will do the rest for us. Even AH 64 will run for its life when Anza is involved.

but it has high altitude capability and all the electrick counter measures along with chaffs and flairs(lack of which led anza to bring down couple of Mi-17s) apart from that its an attacker and as they say attack is best defnce and if that wasnt enof it also has capability to launch air to air missiles

 

[saadee]

but it has high altitude capability and all the electrick counter measures along with chaffs and flairs(lack of which led anza to bring down couple of Mi-17s) apart from that its an attacker and as they say attack is best defnce and if that wasnt enof it also has capability to launch air to air missiles

High altitude capability won't help. Ground support ain't gonna let it happen since it is backed up by the SAMs and front line fighter jets.

 

[GURU DUTT]

High altitude capability won't help. Ground support ain't gonna let it happen since it is backed up by the SAMs and front line fighter jets.

chaffs and flairs backed by electronik counter measures are capable enof to deal with MANPADS like anza weather you like it or not and LCH is for CAS and the main worry for ground crews will be the enemy personell on ground but you can dream on no problem in that ... cheers mate

 

[saadee]

chaffs and flairs backed by electronik counter measures are capable enof to deal with MANPADS like anza weather you like it or not and LCH is for CAS and the main worry for ground crews will be the enemy personell on ground but you can dream on no problem in that ... cheers mate

Are u high or something? What do you think we have air force for? Talk about reality rather than dreams. How are you going to survive against fighter jet? 99.9 percent chances goes in the favor of the jet.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Rudra is powered by two HAL/Turbomeca Ardiden 1H1 (Shakti) turboshafts with each engine delivering a maximum continuous power of 1,067kW. The operation of each is controlled by a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system. The Shakti power plants give the helicopter a maximum continuous speed of 270 kmph. The VNE or never exceed speed of Rudra is 300 kmph. More importantly, Rudra can fly at a maximum altitude of 6 km (20,000 ft) which means it can successfully engage ‘Kargil/Siachen’ type of targets in the Indian context – a capability sorely missed during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

the rudra service ceiling is typical of helicopters of that class. example pakistan's up-coming viper gunship will have a service ceiling greater than the lch. speed has nothing to do with this. even the bell 412 has a similar ceiling hight to that of the rudra. and the 412 can be armed quiet quickly.
Bell AH-1Z Viper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually No.Read IAF's statement.And It is not Anza,rather one Mi-17 was lost when it took 3 Stinger hits while performing Gunship role.


A request was also made for Mi-25/35 gunships to attack the points occupied by the intruders. This request was made with increased urgency again on May 10. It was then explained that these gunships had not, till then, crossed the Zojila Pass due to their weight/altitude restrictions (Well after the Kargil Ops, the IAF successfully flew a stripped down Mi-35 across the Zojila Pass during winter when temperature and air density conditions are favourable, and carried out firing practice).

ok my mistake

Most Helos' Flight Ceiling is based on Clean mode(Where they either carry little or no payload at all).Also,there are various kind of restrictions regarding Temparature,Air density etc.Thats I wanted to highlight.There is no proof Z-10 has gone through altitudes and conditions like Leh,forget about Siachen.Let them test first.

and another thing,I can't post the link of the quote due to forum rules.Please search "Kargil-10 years after" in Google.You can get some wonderful details about Air Operations in Kargil War.

thy to you think china gave pakistan 3 z-10's? there are there for testing. pakistan is only one of a handfull of countries that use gunships on a regular basis as compared to china. also is being evaluated by pakistan. it has undertaken some H&H testing but not alot of it as it not ready for siachin yet. as id does need upgrading. its in one of my previous posts on this thread.

As you said LCH's Engine is more powerfull but what about the weight of choper? Weight is as much important as the power of chopper. LCH has Light weight and high power. That gives it an ability to carry heavy load at high altitude.

z10 below

 

[GURU DUTT]

Are u high or something? What do you think we have air force for? Talk about reality rather than dreams. How are you going to survive against fighter jet? 99.9 percent chances goes in the favor of the jet.

so now you are bringing is fighter jets i wonder what will be next roohani flying machines

 

[saadee]

the rudra service ceiling is typical of helicopters of that class. example pakistan's up-coming viper gunship will have a service ceiling greater than the lch. speed has nothing to do with this. even the bell 412 has a similar ceiling hight to that of the rudra. and the 412 can be armed quiet quickly.
Bell AH-1Z Viper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



ok my mistake


thy to you think china gave pakistan 3 z-10's? there are there for testing. pakistan is only one of a handfull of countries that use gunships on a regular basis as compared to china. also is being evaluated by pakistan. it has undertaken some H&H testing but not alot of it as it not ready for siachin yet. as id does need upgrading. its in one of my previous posts on this thread.


View attachment 266797
z10 below
View attachment 266798

Z 10s engine was designed by the P&W. They got sued by the U.S govt for transferring the tech to the Chinese.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Z 10s engine was designed by the P&W. They got sued by the U.S govt for transferring the tech to the Chinese.

i know