Indian interest in V-22 Osprey intensifies

[acetophenol]

About specialised Deck Coatings, IN is familiar with application and maintenance of such coatings; since they are already in use on INS Viraat. And if I am not mistaken, they are probably applied to the deck of INS Vikramaditya also. There is no reason to believe that the remaining Sea Harriers will never be operated from Vikramaditya sometimes !

I don't think so bro. The US platforms all operated the harriers without trouble but couldn't take the heat of the V 22. For them also,new coatings and equipments were needed. So for sure,we'll have to apply them incase we plan to use the V 22's or F 35s.

 

[acetophenol]

V22 wing span is 14m & with rotor it reaches ~25m. But IN is interested in E-2Hawkeye & IN also considering this for Vikramaditya.
What I am seeing is practical problems of E2 in Vikramaditya, right now it will use 6 KA31, which gave it 24*7 monitoring capability in any war time. So simply can it need to take 3 E2 for same output, so can it do that---answer is NO.
It needs more fuel, maintenance headache, which will reduce carriers capability.
Also few other fatal problems with this system, which doesn't make it feasible for small carrier like Vikramaditya. May be we can see it in next IAC, which is plane to introduce in 2017.

--Inefficiency in hovering operations makes it a bad choice. Not to forget it has failed to meet threshold requirements for survivable emergency landing.
--The V-22 weighs twice as much as the old CH-46E, burns twice as much fuel, but can only carry the same payload and number of passengers.
--Yet the program has refused to test a one engine out vertical landing of a loaded V-22. They say a V-22 can convert to the airplane mode and land safely at an airfield with a rolling landing with just one engine.
--Another problem is the V-22 uses a unique lightweight 5000 psi hydraulic system that caused many problems in the past, spouting leaks 171 times during operational testing in 2000 and was the primary cause of the latest fatal crash. Helicopters use larger and heavier 3000psi systems with stainless steel lines. While titanium is stronger than stainless steel, it is more brittle, more costly, and more difficult to manufacture.


Although it provide unique capability for missions, but just the market of future heli they also provideing same capability with lesser complexity. As IAF put it as a future plateform and there are lot of project in pipeline; I can not see bright future of V22 in IAF though.

-E2 hawkeyes can't be used in INS Vikramaditya for sure.
-Doesn't wingspan include rotors too?
- ka 31 helix were deemed insufficient for our fleet's awac needs a long time ago.
- V 22's speed is so far unmatched (i think.]

 

[shubhamkumar]

Hey guys i thougt we should better get blackhawks
Atleeeast they don't crash so much

 

[bigzgvr4]

dont worry about this aircraft for the carrier i just herd it on NDTV you wont be getting the aircraft carrier from the russia this year may be next year they would start to work on the overhaul and thats a may be
sorry guys

 

[Skull and Bones]

I don't think so bro. The US platforms all operated the harriers without trouble but couldn't take the heat of the V 22. For them also,new coatings and equipments were needed. So for sure,we'll have to apply them incase we plan to use the V 22's or F 35s.

No carriers of US navy operated Harriers, only few landing assault ships operating under US Marine Corps.

 

[acetophenol]

No carriers of US navy operated Harriers, only few landing assault ships operating under US Marine Corps.

Its the marine corps that use the V 22s mainly !

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I don't think so bro. The US platforms all operated the harriers without trouble but couldn't take the heat of the V 22. For them also,new coatings and equipments were needed. So for sure,we'll have to apply them incase we plan to use the V 22's or F 35s.

I am not sure that I am convinced yet. The Harriers vent down Jet exhausts towards the deck surface while the Ospreys will vent down Turbo-prop exhausts (in VTOL mode) Which would you think is hotter?
If you have a link for that piece of info; that will be appreciated.

 

[ANPP]

-E2 hawkeyes can't be used in INS Vikramaditya for sure.
-Doesn't wingspan include rotors too?
- ka 31 helix were deemed insufficient for our fleet's awac needs a long time ago.
- V 22's speed is so far unmatched (i think.]

yes, i know. Thats why it is under consideration by in. I want so complete span of a/c durind take of.
V22 doesnt have any awacs, it is underdevelopment. What it provide is hight for awacs not speed.

 

[Koovie]

dont worry about this aircraft for the carrier i just herd it on NDTV you wont be getting the aircraft carrier from the russia this year may be next year they would start to work on the overhaul and thats a may be
sorry guys

So what??? evaluation, signing the contract, production/delivery and training will take some time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

dont worry about this aircraft for the carrier i just herd it on NDTV you wont be getting the aircraft carrier from the russia this year may be next year they would start to work on the overhaul and thats a may be
sorry guys

If you're going to troll at least make sure your facts are correct- the IN's interest in the V-22 (AEW version) has nothing to do with the INS VIKRAMDITYA but is for the IAC-1 only( as the IAC-2 is almost certainly going to be configured for CATOBAR).

 

[bigzgvr4]

If you're going to troll at least make sure your facts are correct- the IN's interest in the V-22 (AEW version) has nothing to do with the INS VIKRAMDITYA but is for the IAC-1 only( as the IAC-2 is almost certainly going to be configured for CATOBAR).

y0 cheetah chopper calm down every one on here was talking about using it for INS VIKY

 

[Abingdonboy]

V22 wing span is 14m & with rotor it reaches ~25m. But IN is interested in E-2Hawkeye & IN also considering this for Vikramaditya.
What I am seeing is practical problems of E2 in Vikramaditya, right now it will use 6 KA31, which gave it 24*7 monitoring capability in any war time. So simply can it need to take 3 E2 for same output, so can it do that---answer is NO.
It needs more fuel, maintenance headache, which will reduce carriers capability.
Also few other fatal problems with this system, which doesn't make it feasible for small carrier like Vikramaditya. May be we can see it in next IAC, which is plane to introduce in 2017.

--Inefficiency in hovering operations makes it a bad choice. Not to forget it has failed to meet threshold requirements for survivable emergency landing.
--The V-22 weighs twice as much as the old CH-46E, burns twice as much fuel, but can only carry the same payload and number of passengers.
--Yet the program has refused to test a one engine out vertical landing of a loaded V-22. They say a V-22 can convert to the airplane mode and land safely at an airfield with a rolling landing with just one engine.
--Another problem is the V-22 uses a unique lightweight 5000 psi hydraulic system that caused many problems in the past, spouting leaks 171 times during operational testing in 2000 and was the primary cause of the latest fatal crash. Helicopters use larger and heavier 3000psi systems with stainless steel lines. While titanium is stronger than stainless steel, it is more brittle, more costly, and more difficult to manufacture.


Although it provide unique capability for missions, but just the market of future heli they also provideing same capability with lesser complexity. As IAF put it as a future plateform and there are lot of project in pipeline; I can not see bright future of V22 in IAF though.

The E-2Ds are only going to be feasible on the IAC-2 and beyond if we're honest. Whilst NG have said the E-2D can take off using ramps I think the amount of fuel they'd have to run (or lack there of) makes this a non-starter. As such the V-22 AEW variant has utility on 1, maybe 2 if the IN decides to do sell or transfer their KA-31 AEWs, of the IN's ACCs as IAC-2 and beyond are almost certainly going to configured for CATOBAR where the E-2Ds can be used and are more effective than the V-22 AEW will ever be.

Then there is the question whether the IN has any interest the V-22 for its own Spec Ops platform or for other roles such as a troop hauler on their LHD/LPD and as an MPA.



I think as far as the IAF goes there is certainly some utility as far as a dedicated CSAR helo for the Garuds and as a Spec Ops platform to augment the C-130J-30s already in IAF service for this role. There are at least 20-30 units to be had here.


Then there is the question if the ICG is serious in their interest (if what this guys says is correct):


BELL @AERO INDIA 2013:

Talks about Indian interest in V-22- 2.40.



So I can definitely see some scope for V-22 purchases by India.

y0 cheetah chopper calm down every one on here was talking about using it for INS VIKY

Well there is potential for this but a few months of (further) delays on the Viky as ZERO baring on whether the V-22 AEW will be bought for it as the AEW variant of the V-22 is many years out if India goes for it.

 

[sancho]

@ANPP, @sancho,
My conclusion is that Vikramaditya can hold a V 22 osprey. Here are the size comparison b/w MiG 29k and V 22

Mig 29k v/s V 22

Height :4.4m v/s 6.73 m
Length :17.5m v/s 17.5m
Wingspan : 4.40m v/s 6.73

As I said, the size limits of the elevator will be the key, the V22 with folded wings and rotors has a lenght of 19.23m (Boeing specs), so if that isn't an issue and with the increased weight limit of the elevator, the V22 could be stored internally as well.

So far as the IN's interest in the V-22 is concerned; factor in how the IAC 2 design gets frozen. STOBAR or CATOBAR ? If STOBAR, then IN's interest will remain robust.

STOBAR, or CATOBAR has no relevance for the V22, since it will be used the same way from all plattforms, with vertical take off and landing. For most of the possible roles of IN it wouldn't make a difference either, be it tanker, or ASW, since it will remain to be the best choice here. Only for the AEW role on a CATOBAR carrier, the E-2 plattform offers advantages over an V22 AEW, on the other hand IN would benfit from a single plattform for all carriers, which are interchangeable and ease training and logistics. Otherwise IN would use low capable Ka31 on the STOBAR carriers and high capable E-2s on the CATOBAR carrier, not a good mix for sure and opens space for a midway. That's why we should approach the US to get the V22 as an AEW plattform for our own radar system, which would give operational and industrial benifts.

 

[ANPP]

Then there is the question whether the IN has any interest the V-22 for its own Spec Ops platform or for other roles such as a troop hauler on their LHD/LPD and as an MPA.

I think as far as the IAF goes there is certainly some utility as far as a dedicated CSAR helo for the Garuds and as a Spec Ops platform to augment the C-130J-30s already in IAF service for this role. There are at least 20-30 units to be had here.

Then there is the question if the ICG is serious in their interest (if what this guys says is correct):

Talks about Indian interest in V-22- 2.40.
So I can definitely see some scope for V-22 purchases by India.

I do agree with V22 in IN.
But my doubt is about IAF's requirement. It certainly provide advantages over existing helis. v22 is hybrid of heli & plane. It do vertical take-off & landing and achieve speed upto 400-500km/h easily.

But V22 rotor less than half of Chinooks rotors, means area of wings is less than 4th time of any conventional heli of its weight. So have doubt real doubt over its hovering capability at higher altitude especially when it comes to Himalayan area where air is too rare. However it can fly higher and par-drop(parachute) soldiers but than what is its real benifit over C130 which we recently buy or over An32. Its payload is also less than any heli/aircraft, demand huge money and fuel for operations.
As vortex ring state problem is too dangerous in V22. I have real doubt over IAF's version ( I also insist for future Helicopter development around world especially Mil X1), which also reduce V22 advantage by huge leap.

 

[jha]

Somehow I dont see much happening for this platform in India. IN will have to make do with another less costly platform for time being. And the question is who will foot the bill for developing the AEW version..? I dont see IN having enough money to do this. They have too many things to buy.