Indian interest in V-22 Osprey intensifies

[ANPP]

Can viki/viraat hold it? I have doubt!

simply no, thats why is as a possible future plateform by IN.

 

[sancho]

Can viki/viraat hold it? I have doubt!

Yes, why shouldn't they? The V22 takes off and land like any other helicopter, if they can be stored in the hangar depends on the elevator size, but that shouldn't be a big deal, otherwise you can park them on deck as well.

Suppose,India went for LHD..then what kind of Aircraft we should go for??though these are for Helos,but These can also carry Vtol aircrafts,right??now only operational Vtol aircraft is F-35,apart from Harrier(old platform).should we go for that??there are reports that Japan will deploy F-35s on their LHDs.so,shouldn't India go for LHD rather than LPD??(Though I don't like F-35 much)

That depends on what roles the LDP is intended to do. I would used them for as an helicopter carrier for ASW, where a V22 with ASW capability would be great. But if the only need is the use during amphibious landings at humanitarian relief missions, normal utility helicopters like the S70, or even the AW 101 would be much better. For LDPs I would even consider having just 2 x CH53Ks than 4 x S70s, because they can lift more and heavier payload and cargo roles are the main use of LDPs.
F35B is a no go for us, first of all since it's the most limited version of the 3, secondly because it doesn't make sense to use 5th fighters on LHDs, while the aircraft carriers just gets 4.5gen fighters and last but not least they are way too expensive for the limited use we would have operated from LHDs. If we use the LDHs during amphibious landings in war times (which will never happen anyway), it will be paired with an aircraft carrier to provide air superirity and close air support, the rest can be done by using combat helicopters, so no use for STOVL fighters anymore.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@arp2041 as the article states, the IN is interested in the V-22 as an AEW platform, presumably for the IAC-2 and beyond as the Viky and IAC-1 will be using KA-31 AEW helos AFAIK. Although it remains to be seen whether the IN has any interest in shelling out the funding for developing this variant. As @sancho has stated, using this platform for the IN's LPD/LHD seems a little bit pointless, instead IMHO the CH-53K will fit perfectly with the IN's needs and will be ready for delivery by the time the IN goes shopping for such helos.



As far as the IAF goes, their stated uses ie Spec Ops and CSAR (ie for Guards) seem to be perfect for what the V-22 was designed for. I have been saying for a long time the Garuds need their own,dedicated, CSAR helos like the USAF Para-Rescue HH-60G Pavehawks. Now the USAF is looking for the replacement of these birds and the V-22 and CH-47 are in the hunt so it seems the IAF is thinking along the same lines.




Should be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[sancho]

@arp2041 as the article states, the IN is interested in the V-22 as an AEW platform, presumably for the IAC-2 and beyond as the Viky and IAC-1 will be using KA-31 AEW helos AFAIK.

Yes, but IA recently asked for an own VTOL AEW plattform, which could be used alongside their battle corps, so MoD could simply divert the Ka 31 to IA and get V22 AEW for IN and IAF.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, but IA recently asked for an own VTOL AEW plattform, which could be used alongside their battle corps, so MoD could simply divert the Ka 31 to IA and get V22 AEW for IN and IAF.

This is a definite possibility but the fact remains the AEW version of the V-22 remains undeveloped and unfunded. Will the IN/IAF shell out for this? I'd say there is a high chance they would.

I wonder what kind of timelines we are looking at @sancho?

 

[sancho]

This is a definite possibility but the fact remains the AEW version of the V-22 remains undeveloped and unfunded. Will the IN/IAF shell out for this? I'd say there is a high chance they would.

I wonder what kind of timelines we are looking at @sancho?

That's why I said, that I only see it coming if we have some industrial benefits in return as well, otherwise developing an AEW or ASW version, besides the already high costs are noth worth the money, but it would increase INs capability by far.

Three carriers, each with

4 x V22 AEW
2 x V22 MRTT
2 x V22 ASW

=> 24 x V22s, add some reserves and for IAFs special ops and we are easily around 40. If we go for LHDs with ASW capability, we could land at 50 to 60.

 

[SQ8]

IN MV-22B Osprey

 

[Abingdonboy]

IN MV-22B Osprey

Nice work @Oscar . One small thing- the IN don't have the tricolour fin-flash on the tails of their fixed wing a/c.

 

[acetophenol]

@ANPP, @sancho,
My conclusion is that Vikramaditya can hold a V 22 osprey. Here are the size comparison b/w MiG 29k and V 22

Mig 29k v/s V 22

Height :4.4m v/s 6.73 m
Length :17.5m v/s 17.5m
Wingspan : 4.40m v/s 6.73

Since the difference b/w their sizes are'nt that significant, Ins vikramaditya must be able to comfortably hold a V 22. Also,INS Viki got a 30 ton ramp replacing the early 20 ton, lifting a V 22 of 18.5 ton won't be a problem either.

Another iceing in the cake is that, the exhaust of V 22 will damage the flight deck and special cooling equipments and coatings are needed. So if we go for V 22, these cooling stuff will also help us in operating future V/TOL platforms like F 35.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This is a definite possibility but the fact remains the AEW version of the V-22 remains undeveloped and unfunded. Will the IN/IAF shell out for this? I'd say there is a high chance they would.

I wonder what kind of timelines we are looking at @sancho?

If this Indian 'interest' remains sustained then abt. 5 years down the line.
So far as the IN's interest in the V-22 is concerned; factor in how the IAC 2 design gets frozen. STOBAR or CATOBAR ? If STOBAR, then IN's interest will remain robust.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@ANPP, @sancho,
My conclusion is that Vikramaditya can hold a V 22 osprey. Here are the size comparison b/w MiG 29k and V 22

Mig 29k v/s V 22

Height :4.4m v/s 6.73 m
Length :17.5m v/s 17.5m
Wingspan : 4.40m v/s 6.73

Since the difference b/w their sizes are'nt that significant, Ins vikramaditya must be able to comfortably hold a V 22. Also,INS Viki got a 30 ton ramp replacing the early 20 ton, lifting a V 22 of 18.5 ton won't be a problem either.

Another iceing in the cake is that, the exhaust of V 22 will damage the flight deck and special cooling equipments and coatings are needed. So if we go for V 22, these cooling stuff will also help us in operating future V/TOL platforms like F 35.

About specialised Deck Coatings, IN is familiar with application and maintenance of such coatings; since they are already in use on INS Viraat. And if I am not mistaken, they are probably applied to the deck of INS Vikramaditya also. There is no reason to believe that the remaining Sea Harriers will never be operated from Vikramaditya sometimes !

 

[ANPP]

My conclusion is that Vikramaditya can hold a V 22 osprey. Here are the size comparison b/w MiG 29k and V 22

Mig 29k v/s V 22

Height :4.4m v/s 6.73 m
Length :17.5m v/s 17.5m
Wingspan : 4.40m v/s 6.73

Since the difference b/w their sizes are'nt that significant, Ins vikramaditya must be able to comfortably hold a V 22. Also,INS Viki got a 30 ton ramp replacing the early 20 ton, lifting a V 22 of 18.5 ton won't be a problem either.

Another iceing in the cake is that, the exhaust of V 22 will damage the flight deck and special cooling equipments and coatings are needed. So if we go for V 22, these cooling stuff will also help us in operating future V/TOL platforms like F 35.

V22 wing span is 14m & with rotor it reaches ~25m. But IN is interested in E-2Hawkeye & IN also considering this for Vikramaditya.
What I am seeing is practical problems of E2 in Vikramaditya, right now it will use 6 KA31, which gave it 24*7 monitoring capability in any war time. So simply can it need to take 3 E2 for same output, so can it do that---answer is NO.
It needs more fuel, maintenance headache, which will reduce carriers capability.
Also few other fatal problems with this system, which doesn't make it feasible for small carrier like Vikramaditya. May be we can see it in next IAC, which is plane to introduce in 2017.

--Inefficiency in hovering operations makes it a bad choice. Not to forget it has failed to meet threshold requirements for survivable emergency landing.
--The V-22 weighs twice as much as the old CH-46E, burns twice as much fuel, but can only carry the same payload and number of passengers.
--Yet the program has refused to test a one engine out vertical landing of a loaded V-22. They say a V-22 can convert to the airplane mode and land safely at an airfield with a rolling landing with just one engine.
--Another problem is the V-22 uses a unique lightweight 5000 psi hydraulic system that caused many problems in the past, spouting leaks 171 times during operational testing in 2000 and was the primary cause of the latest fatal crash. Helicopters use larger and heavier 3000psi systems with stainless steel lines. While titanium is stronger than stainless steel, it is more brittle, more costly, and more difficult to manufacture.


Although it provide unique capability for missions, but just the market of future heli they also provideing same capability with lesser complexity. As IAF put it as a future plateform and there are lot of project in pipeline; I can not see bright future of V22 in IAF though.

 

[The A-5]

Nice work @Oscar . One small thing- the IN don't have the tricolour fin-flash on the tails of their fixed wing a/c.

Yes they have the national flag on the fin.

 

[Dash]

I wouldnt mind 5-10 of these for Spec-Ops. We need a dedicated platform for this.

 

[Ayush]

looks awesome.
hope we get it sooner or later.
no need to hurry right now.