Indian intelligence involvement in Bangladesh land mass from 1947-today

[notsuperstitious]

If it was. Then it was the then Pakistan.
Today our gov has no official relation with any rebel.
We have no relation with maoist and ulfa. We helped to uproot them.
Some accusation which comes against bnp gov that is done personally.
If u give some ppl money they will surely do ur work.
As long as it goes the matter of ulfa its Pakistan's policy to help them.
Some bnp and jamat personal may working as middleman.
My request is if u can shed some light on Kuchbihar arm supply.
And what was the reason behind India's help to shanti bahini rebels of our hill tracts.

I can assure u that mass population of BD is against terrorism and we wont give them any place in our soil.

Yes, but this thread covers time from 1947, when it was east pakistan. And certainly some pakistanis and sympathisers and agents were left behind in BD who still do the same, remember the huge cache of arms caught in BD during BNP rule - that was meant for Ulfa. Also my post was important to bust the crying of those left over pakistanis who keep blaming india for our role in 1971.

I unfortunately do not know about the two incidents you mention, somebody like @Joe Shearer may know. I'm - this should be quite obvious to you -totally against any interference and wish a relationship on equal footing. I think the real issue in this is not India's lack of desire to do so, but the rather immature internal politics of BD.

 

[kalu_miah]

cross posted

h1p7

Experiences at Delhi

Our experiences at Delhi had mixed feelings. On one hand, we were happy to be well received but on the other hand, we were disheartened to know the India design over Liberation war and would be Bangladesh.

We surrendered ourselves to the Indian authorities on 20th April at the Ministry of External Affaires at the South Block of Rastrapati Bhaban. There we were handed over to Gen. Oban Singh, the then head of Research And Analysis Wing (RAW). From then onwards he took charge of us. One Brig. Narayan became our full time companion. For four days and nights we had to undergo a grueling interrogation session organized by the intelligence experts. We tried to be honest, straightforward and sincere. One evening Mr. Ajoy Kumar Roy, Joint Secretary incharge of Bangladesh affairs at the Ministry Of External Affairs came along with two Bengali gentlemen. They were Mr. Shabuddin and Mr. Amjad Hussain. Both of them were diplomats and had defected from the Pakistan Mission at Delhi once Mujibnagar government was formed on 17th April. Both were given political asylum by Indian government. Since then they were under Indian protection. Both these young officers took all the risks to join the straggle and embraced the uncertain future just like us. We are very happy to meet them. They informed us a lot about the freedom straggle and the war. They while congratulating us for our courage and patriotism said the Mukti Bahini needed many more officers like us.

One day Gen. Oban Singh informed us that a high-powered delegation of the provisional Bangladesh government in exile would be coming to Delhi shortly. Once they arrive we would be handed over to them formally. This was a good news. Finally the delegation arrived. The three members delegation comprised of Mr. Tajuddin Ahmed, the Prime Minister, Khandkar Mushtaq Ahmed, the Foreign Minister and Col. Osmani, the Commander-in-Chief of the Mukti Bahini. During the meeting we were told by the Prime Minister that after having discussed with the Indian authorities it has been decided that We would be staying at Delhi for about two more weeks. To be briefed by the Indian agencies about the freedom movement and the special assignment that we shall be undertaking once we join the war. This we formed quite intriguing. Why do we have to take briefings from the Indians instead of our own people? That means our straggle was not only ours alone. Indian government’s help and support is not unconditional. It was clearly understood that Indian government had significant clout and say about the independence war of Bangladesh. And Mujibnagar government is giving due importance to the Indian views before taking any decision. Some questions came to our mind.

Whose struggle is this independence movement?

With what interest Bharat is maneuvering from behind of scene?

All national liberation movements and wars had been organized under a national government or leadership. Why then it is different in our case?

Why hurriedly a provisional Awami League government was formed instead of a national government at the tacit approval and support of the Indian government to lead the national liberation movement?

What are the real intentions behind to impose Awami League’s leadership on the entire nation?

Starting from anti Ayub movement up to non-cooperation movement, every political struggle had been organized under the united leadership of all progressive forces in East Pakistan. Under such circumstances why India is supporting Awami League’s go alone policy?

For the briefings we were shifted to a military training camp closed to Palam International Airport. There we were introduced to Maj. Suraj Singh an experienced commando officer specialized on insurgency and counter insurgency. Brig Narayan was also the same. A two weeks crash program was chalked out for us. This was basically a program to refresh our specialized knowledge and to tell us about the Indian perception of the freedom struggle and their design to enslave the entire nation. And to turn the new born country into a vassal state through the despotic and puppet regime of Awami League. According to Indians,

the Bengali members of the armed forces, East Bengal regiments, police, EPR, Ansars, Mujahids and other law and order enforcing agencies revolted spontaneously against the sudden military operation unlashed in the night of 25th of March 1971 by the military junta. Students, workers, city dwellers, peasants that is the larger section of the people joined in the revolt regardless of their party affiliations or group loyalties. The Indian government is keeping a close eye on the developments. Hundreds and thousands of refugees had crossed over from East Pakistan and now are on Indian soil. That is how Indian government has got involved mostly on humanitarian grounds. To lead this spontaneous armed resistance movement to the ultimate victory there is a need of a political leadership. For India only Awami League has to provide that leadership. That is why the provisional government in exile has been formed. India has full confidence on Awami League and the newly formed provisional government. India also considered most of the leaders of Awami League trust worthy. From the very beginning this struggle has to be organized under the firm leadership of Awami League. The Indian government will not provide any help to any individual, group or political organization imbued with any ideology what so ever other then the Awami League and its provisional government in exile. However, according to the Indians the leadership of Awami League may face challenge from mainly two reactionary forces.

Firstly- Bengali members of the erstwhile Pakistan Army who revolted. Because all these people had the test of power as Pakistan was under military rule almost since its inception. Unfortunately they had initiated the resistance movement and Mukti Bahini evolved around these elements. And therefore, these forces may challenge the Awami League leadership in due course of time. Gen. Arora later in one of his interview also expressed similar views. He said, "Sheikh Mujib and his party never trusted the army officers". (Statement of Gen.Arora given to Mr. Nikhil chakaravarti under the heading "Reflection from the war of Bangladesh") Gen. Arora further said, "The Bengali members of the armed the forces and officers were not only suspected by Mujib and his party, they were also not been trusted by the Indian authorities".

Secondly - Awami League leadership may also face challenge from the extreme left forces the Naxalites. These Naxalites already infiltrated among the Mukti Bahinis. In all the adjacent states such as West Bengal, Bihar, Orisha, Assam, Meghalaya, Tripura, Manipur, Mizoram Naxalites movements are on the rise. These active extremists can join hands with the extremists within Bangladesh and pose a serious challenge to the Awami League’s leadership as well as Indian government. These combined political forces can even join hands with the members of the erstwhile Pakistan army to capture political leadership to peruse their political goal. These forces need to be uprooted before they can further entrench themselves. To ensure Awami League’s leadership during the war and in the post-independent Bangladesh, this is the considered opinion of the Indian government that the move must be taken right from now without wasting anytime. The honorable Prime Minister of the Bangladesh provisional government has agreed with the Indian viewpoint in this regard. A joint strategy has already been worked out and approved by both sides. It has been decided as per the plan to raise a special political armed force comprising of the selected Awami League cadres and workers exclusively. This force will be hundred thousand strong. They will be trained in special training camps with the help of Indian army. Recruitment, training, arming and deployment of this force would be totally out of Mukti Bahini’s command structure. This force would be directly under the command of the Prime Minister, Mr. Tajuddin Ahmed. Indian government will take all responsibilities to arm and provide logistic support to this force. On behalf of the Indian government Gen. Oban Singh will remain as the head and chief coordinator of this force. Its main task would be to provide armed support to the Awami League government in the post independence era. After the training they will be inducted inside Bangladesh in groups at the last phase of the war. They will secure themselves at the strategic locations and shall remain prepared to face any challenge to the Awami League government. The name of this force will be Bangladesh Liberation Force (BLF) The same force was named Mujib Bahini and much hated Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini (JRB) successively in Bangladesh. Bangladesh government had decided that all three of us would be working with the Indian army and Gen. Oban singh to raise and organize this BLF. Considering us to be non political and assured of our blind faith and respect towards Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and the strong sense of patriotism the authorities might have taken this decision. The concerned authorities of the both governments must have been also convinced about our loyalty, background, professional competence, raw courage, and sincerity of purpose. Many things became clear after these briefings that we received on behalf of the Indian government. All those questions that had been haunting us for last couple of days had all their answers in the text of those briefings. What a heinous mistrust to all those people who plunged themselves into the armed resistance movement to fight for their motherland’s independence even at the cost of supreme sacrifice! What a dangers plan to eliminate the freedom fighters just to perpetuate one particular political party in power! What a betrayal with the blood of the martyrs! This Chanakkya’s bule print will cause serious national disunity and will turn the Bengali nation into the slaves of the Brahmins.

The nation will stand fragmented. As a result the very foundation of the newborn country would become weak. The very sprit of independence will be evaporated. Thus a bleeding Bangladesh will turn easily into a vassal state. So called independence will become an empty dream.. The aspirations of eight crore people will be lost in the quick sand of national betrayal.

Our conscience revolted. We cannot be a party to this blue print. Not only that this blue print has to be resisted at any cost. We must try to mobilize support among the freedom fighters against this treacherous blue print. This can only be done once we reach the battlefield. Once we are there we shall discuss this with other comrades in confidence and covertly organize against this evil design. We shall have to get our independence through our own sweat and blood, not as a charity from others. We have to prepare ourselves for a long drawn People’s war. Lessons can be taken from the great nationalist movements like that of People’s Republic of China, Vietnam, Algeria and many other countries of the world

Regarding the fateful night of 25th\26th March 1971, preparedness of Awami League for the liberation war and the attitude of Indira Gandhi towards the war Major Rafiqul Islam psc in his book ‘Shamarik Shashan O Gonotantrer Shangkot’ writes,

"After the crackdown by the military junta on 25th night, as there were no earlier preparations to face a powerful army in direct confrontation, the Awami League leadership left the people under the fire of guns and ranaway to Calcutta. Mrs. Indira Gandhi, the able successor of Pandit Jawharlal Nehru, the dreamer of ‘Akhand Bharat’ was waiting for long for such an opportunity. Mrs. Indira Gandhi properly utilized this golden opportunity at the right moment. Not only Delhi succeed to dismember and weaken its long time No.1 adversary Pakistan but also could suppress the growing civil war that was waged by the left forces in and around West Bengal".

 

[kalu_miah]

Article

January 27, 2010: Watershed in the History of Bangladesh

The day – January 27, 2010 – will go down in the history of the South Asia as a black day on which five patriotic officers of the Army who saved Bangladesh from becoming the colony of India 35 years ago, were hanged. It was not surprising because the Prime Minister of Bangladesh – Hasina Wazed – is the daughter of the traitor – Sheikh Mujib – who was the President of the country against who the 15 August 1975 coup d’etat was carried out. It was vendetta, not justice; its shadow will loom large over the country until the legacy of the traitor is disowned and discredited in Bangladesh. It took Sheikh Hasina 35 years to discredit the heroism of the best sons of the soil as mere murders. It will not take that long to discredit Hasina – the lap dog of India - who has since become so bold as to wear her father’s treachery as a badge of honour. It would not be long before Sheikh Mujib is seen as the worst traitor in the sub-continent since Mir Jaffer.

Bangladesh is the product of conspiracy and war in which India played the major part. India deserves credit for being able to recruit popular Muslim leaders of Bengal to betray their fellow Muslims to advance the objectives of India. Sheikh Mujib was a student leader active in the Pakistan Movement and he could have become the Prime Minister of Pakistan in 1971 when he emerged as the leader of the Party with the largest number of seats in the parliament. He met President Yahya Khan and accepted his invitation in March 1971 to form the next government. But only a few days later he conveyed regret to Yahya Khan after his Indian agent handler came back from New Delhi and informed him that Prime Minister Indira Gandhi had agreed to invade East Pakistan in support of his Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI). Sheikh Mujib betrayed his constituency, refused to take office as the Prime Minister of Pakistan, and followed the direction of his handlers from India. That truth has since been revealed in several books published in India and now his daughter – Prime Minister Hasina Wazed - has admitted that her father was a traitor (following story). The irony is that the politicians in Pakistan continue to sell the Indian propaganda that secession of East Pakistan was the ‘inevitable consequence of maltreatment’. What maltreatment? No one bother to ascertain or detail!

The senior most officers executed - Colonel Syed Farook Rehman – was like a son to me. I met him in Libya where he along with other officers who took part in the coup d’etat of 15 August 1975, had been given political asylum. A relationship of warmth and trust developed between me and Colonel Farook. He is the most fearless person that I came across in my life. The only person to benefit from his courage and fearlessness was the President of the country - General Ershad. He recognized the honourable role those young officers had played in loosening the shackles in which India held their country – Bangladesh. He allowed them to return to Bangladesh, whereupon they founded a new political party- Freedom Party. Colonel Farook contested presidential elections against General Hussain Muhammad Ershad, and secured respectable fifth of the votes cast. It was only after Mujib’s daughter – who had lived in exile in India for a long time – returned to Bangladesh; took the reins of her father’s party – the Awami League – into her hands and won the elections with the guidance and financial help of India in 1996. She had been campaigning on a platform to avenge the murder of her father. Most of those who had participated in the coup d’etat in 1975 left the country. However, the five (Colonel Farook, Lt Col Sultan Shahayar Khan, Lt Col. Mohyuddin Ahmed, Major Badrul Huda and Major AKM Mohyuddin) who were hanged on January 27, put faith in ‘indemnity’ provided by constitutional amendment. They were clearly wrong to have trusted the ‘judiciary’ to uphold that their action had been motivated by ‘high purpose’ and not ‘personal benefit’.

I feel sad that they were unable to articulate the ‘high purpose’ that motivated the action they took on 15 August 1975. It has since been clearly established that Sheikh Mujib acted under the guidance of and in collaboration with the enemy - India - to dismember his country. To remove a traitor – an Indian agent - from power is indeed ‘high purpose’. Now Prime Minister Hasina Wazed has admitted that her father was a traitor who worked with and for the enemy – India. It took her 35 years to so tire the people with rhetoric and propaganda and so undermine the institutions of the state that she could get away with murder. The execution of the five patriots on January 27 this year was indeed murder. The parliament reversed the ‘indemnity’ and a ‘special court’ passed the death sentences during her first term as Prime Minister. But she could not get high judiciary to bend to her will and reject their appeal. The military was also not willing to endorse their execution. Hasina had to wait until the Peelkhana mutiny and massacre by BDR (Bangladesh Rifles) of 25-26 February 2009, to terrify the people as well as the judicial and the military establishment to an extent that the ‘feared outrage’ that had prevented her from sending the five military officers to the gallows did not materialize.

This is the second instance of the Indian Intelligence (RAW) having won a victory far more substantive than any won by its military. The first was to absorb the independent state of Sikkim into India. Sikkim is a Buddhist country lying between Assam and Nepal that provided a route through low passes to Tibet province of China. Since India‘s imperialist rulers have always had an eye on Tibet as a target, they looked at occupation of Sikkim as a pre-requisite as it provided direct access to Tibet for military or clandestine operations. The methods India used in Sikkim were very similar to those in Bangladesh. India installed its protégé – Kazi Lhendup Dorji – as the Prime Minister of Sikikim, who set up a pro-India Sikkim National Congress (SNC) as an affiliate of the Congress Party in India. The SNC started a movement for the ‘abolition of monarchy’. Demonstrations against the King were organised by RAW in which Indian military personal in civvies took part. Eventually, the Prime Minister Kazi Dorji invited the Indian Army into Sikkim to remove its ruler – Chogyal Palden – on April 6, 1975. The country of Sikkim was annexed by India and the annexation was validated by a referendum – something that India refuses to hold in the State of Jammu and Kashmir.

In Bangladesh, the Army had emerged as a strong institution willing and able to oppose and resist Indian domination. There had been three military coup d’états in Bangladesh – all of which were successful - and the two led by the Army Chief - General Zia ur Rehman and General Hussain Muhammed Ershad – became the vehicle for new political parties to be created that won popular mandate in free elections. Naturally, the military of Bangladesh is seen by India as an impediment to its hegemony and by Sheikh Mujib’s Awami League as an obstacle in it collaborative rule. RAW came up with a plan to ‘remove the obstacle’: 1) to rig the elections to give the Awami League (AL) a landslide victory; 2) to use the AL members to incite a mutiny by BDR (which is border police) against their officers (who are seconded from the Army); 3) to use AL workers( even ministers) to facilitate the smuggling in of professional killers from abroad and arrange their exit while the Prime Minister herself provided time and opportunity for them to ‘complete the task’ by opting for prolonged negotiations keeping the Army from timely response to save the lives of their comrades and the honour of their wives.

History has seen many mutinies by soldiers against their officers but the officers were always of a different race or religion to that of the soldiers. I cannot recall any instance in history where soldiers engaged in the rape of the wives of their officers before murdering them. Fifty seven Army officers were killed in the Peelkhana Mutiny and Massacre in two days which is two more than during the 1971 insurrection and war. This is the most vicious mutiny in the annals of history; it is also the most diabolical because the allegedly popular elected government was complicit in every stage – planning, execution, exit and cover up. The people as well as the officials in Bangladesh know the facts, thanks to the Internet. But no one is willing to risk giving evidence. They are literally scared to death. It is widely believed that if any one expressed doubts about the AL version of events, he would invite the ire of RAW and be murdered like the Army officers and their wives held hostage in Peelkhana. It was in this environment of fear that the five patriotic officers were executed - eleven months after the BDR Mutiny; just over a year after Hasina became the Prime Minister for the second time.

The execution of the five officers is bound to be seen by the AL and RAW as the final triumph over the people of Bangladesh who, they believe, would have to comply with their every whim and wish and be punished for even the mildest protest. That India succeeded in getting patriots to the gallows and traitors into power, is a huge failure for Bangladesh as a country. It is not a failure of the ‘five martyrs for freedom’ who suffered long incarceration before being hanged, or their dwindling band of supporters; it is the failure of the society that allowed that to happen.

The colonization by India of Bangladesh is now complete. Prime Minister Hasina Wazed is complying with India’s orders unafraid of any institutional (the military or the judiciary) constraints or robust political opposition. She is now so confident that India would be the overlord of Bangladesh for ever that she has now admitted that her father worked for India. She clearly thinks that she must henceforth work overtly for India and be rewarded with rule by ‘Mujib Dynasty’ in perpetuity. The military has been restrained in performing its statutory role to safeguard the national interest as RAW has demonstrated that its hold over Bangladesh is tight. No wonder the senior officers of the military are afraid they might be murdered by RAW agents or dismissed by the Government if they are suspected to be patriots unafraid of India.

The politics of Bangladesh is bound to become more polarized into ‘lackeys of India’ and ‘Muslim patriots’. The latter are bound to see Sheikh Mujib as a traitor worse than Mir Jaffer. (Mir Jaffer also became the ruler of Bengal as reward for cooperating with the British). The judiciary in Bangladesh has shown that it will also obey India’s wishes which are ensured by Hindus as Judicial officers at all levels including the Supreme Court. The people noted that the SC Bench, which upheld the death sentences to the five martyrs, had two Hindu members. It is a case of kangaroo court justice as it was ignored that those officers had acted as commanders of their units and should have been tried by a court martial. Until 1996, these officers had lived and worked in Bangladesh where they were seen to be patriots who saved their country from tutelage of India. That is why they had been given pardon and immunity from prosecution.

Hasina Administration has shown its obsequiousness to Indian interests also by handing over ULFA leaders to India even though there is no extradition treaty between India and Bangladesh. With the Armed Forces and the Judiciary so intimidated ‘new realities’ are being created quick and fast to prevent any future government of Bangladesh to be able to say ‘no’ to anything that India asks. The construction of Tipaimukh Dam is one; agreement to allow India to connect the ports of Bangladesh by rail is another. The people of Bangladesh are bound to reach the same conclusion that Colonel Farook and fellow patriots reached in 1975. They had concluded there was no way to stop the Indian protégé – Sheikh Mujib - except by physically eliminating him. By being complicit in Peelkhana massacre Hasina has now reinforced the legacy of slaughter with the help of and at the behest of India. She is not merely the ‘daughter of a traitor’ but a traitor in her own right. The attempt to remove her may entail slaughter much more widespread over much longer time. It would be foolish to forecast her fate. But her days are numbered. ++

The above is the Editorial of LISA Journal, London, UK Issue No 14 - (April-June 2010)

Published by London Institute of South Asia, UK

http://www.untoldfacts.com/south-asia/january-27-2010-watershed-in-the-history-of-bangladesh/

 

[Vinod2070]

Too long. Is there a summary one can see?

 

[Joe Shearer]

If it was. Then it was the then Pakistan.
Today our gov has no official relation with any rebel.
We have no relation with maoist and ulfa. We helped to uproot them.
Some accusation which comes against bnp gov that is done personally.
If u give some ppl money they will surely do ur work.
As long as it goes the matter of ulfa its Pakistan's policy to help them.
Some bnp and jamat personal may working as middleman.
My request is if u can shed some light on Kuchbihar arm supply.
And what was the reason behind India's help to shanti bahini rebels of our hill tracts.

I can assure u that mass population of BD is against terrorism and we wont give them any place in our soil.

Yes, but this thread covers time from 1947, when it was east pakistan. And certainly some pakistanis and sympathisers and agents were left behind in BD who still do the same, remember the huge cache of arms caught in BD during BNP rule - that was meant for Ulfa. Also my post was important to bust the crying of those left over pakistanis who keep blaming india for our role in 1971.

I unfortunately do not know about the two incidents you mention, somebody like @Joe Shearer may know. I'm - this should be quite obvious to you -totally against any interference and wish a relationship on equal footing. I think the real issue in this is not India's lack of desire to do so, but the rather immature internal politics of BD.

This is messy territory.

Pakistani intelligence was organised and effective, and worked in a disciplined, focussed manner in the interests of the Pakistani state long before the lethargic babus in India had even figured out that there was value to external intelligence. It is noteworthy that on the one hand, the ISI ran rings around the Indian establishment, and had spotted and was in touch with each and every one of the dissidents against the Indian state; on the other hand, Bhola Mallik's IB made an embarrassing series of misjudgements about China's intentions and preparedness on the Borders, culminating in a defeat of humiliating proportions.

As @madx says, this was the Pakistani period. Was any of this carried forward into Bangladesh?

From one point of view in India, a suspicious and doubting point of view, the BNP represented the establishment of Pakistan in its independent, Bangladeshi avatar. The Mujib faction in Bangladeshi politics had always been the faction out of power. There was no anti-India meme to be carried forward. The Zia faction seemingly represented members of the establishment who found the situation intolerable and revolted, but without losing the legacy of the past. It was difficult to understand how every enemy of the Indian state lived in prominent Bangladeshi towns, flew in and out of Bangladeshi airports, on Bangladeshi passports, without the administration having a clue. It is difficult to believe that the BNP was Simon-pure. Apart from direct involvement, the suspicion lingers on, to this day, that Islamists and the unreconciled greater Pakistan faction aided and abetted what for the sake of politeness we might term the agents of a third country's intelligence organisation.

Without going into fundamental details, there was always a rise in dissident activity with the BNP around, always a dip when they were not.

The Cooch Bihar and Shanti Bahini issues are a different kettle of fish. Very complicated, beyond the scope of a comment in a defence journal, and involved in Indian and Bangladeshi politics and struggles between rival factions of the intelligence establishment. It is difficult to go beyond this.

 

[kalu_miah]

This is messy territory.

Pakistani intelligence was organised and effective, and worked in a disciplined, focussed manner in the interests of the Pakistani state long before the lethargic babus in India had even figured out that there was value to external intelligence. It is noteworthy that on the one hand, the ISI ran rings around the Indian establishment, and had spotted and was in touch with each and every one of the dissidents against the Indian state; on the other hand, Bhola Mallik's IB made an embarrassing series of misjudgements about China's intentions and preparedness on the Borders, culminating in a defeat of humiliating proportions.

As @madx says, this was the Pakistani period. Was any of this carried forward into Bangladesh?

From one point of view in India, a suspicious and doubting point of view, the BNP represented the establishment of Pakistan in its independent, Bangladeshi avatar. The Mujib faction in Bangladeshi politics had always been the faction out of power. There was no anti-India meme to be carried forward. The Zia faction seemingly represented members of the establishment who found the situation intolerable and revolted, but without losing the legacy of the past. It was difficult to understand how every enemy of the Indian state lived in prominent Bangladeshi towns, flew in and out of Bangladeshi airports, on Bangladeshi passports, without the administration having a clue. It is difficult to believe that the BNP was Simon-pure. Apart from direct involvement, the suspicion lingers on, to this day, that Islamists and the unreconciled greater Pakistan faction aided and abetted what for the sake of politeness we might term the agents of a third country's intelligence organisation.

Without going into fundamental details, there was always a rise in dissident activity with the BNP around, always a dip when they were not.

The Cooch Bihar and Shanti Bahini issues are a different kettle of fish. Very complicated, beyond the scope of a comment in a defence journal, and involved in Indian and Bangladeshi politics and struggles between rival factions of the intelligence establishment. It is difficult to go beyond this.

Please provide some sources for the bold 1st paragraph.

As for Cooch Bihar and Shanti Bahini, we will get into this in great detail as these are very much the topic in discussion and I can understand why anyone from India would like to avoid these two issues.

 

[Zabaniyah]

From one point of view in India, a suspicious and doubting point of view, the BNP represented the establishment of Pakistan in its independent, Bangladeshi avatar. The Mujib faction in Bangladeshi politics had always been the faction out of power. There was no anti-India meme to be carried forward. The Zia faction seemingly represented members of the establishment who found the situation intolerable and revolted, but without losing the legacy of the past. It was difficult to understand how every enemy of the Indian state lived in prominent Bangladeshi towns, flew in and out of Bangladeshi airports, on Bangladeshi passports, without the administration having a clue. It is difficult to believe that the BNP was Simon-pure. Apart from direct involvement, the suspicion lingers on, to this day, that Islamists and the unreconciled greater Pakistan faction aided and abetted what for the sake of politeness we might term the agents of a third country's intelligence organisation.

Without going into fundamental details, there was always a rise in dissident activity with the BNP around, always a dip when they were not.

And they say we are the only ones getting into conspiracy theories.

Seems like we are not alone.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Please provide some sources for the bold 1st paragraph.

As for Cooch Bihar and Shanti Bahini, we will get into this in great detail as these are very much the topic in discussion and I can understand why anyone from India would like to avoid these two issues.

And they say we are the only ones getting into conspiracy theories.

Seems like we are not alone.

Would you two geniuses like me to translate 'point of view' into Bengali? Or to give you the difference between published and recorded fact and point of view?

 

[bangbros]

Indians simply hate Muslims...

whats wrong with u guys please stop this muslims bullshit... i think u people truly want hindus to hate u guys(sorry iam not hindu)

 

[Zabaniyah]

Would you two geniuses like me to translate 'point of view' into Bengali? Or to give you the difference between published and recorded fact and point of view?

Well, our prime minister recently said that Khaleda is a Pakistani dalal
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/242449-go-islamic-republic-pakistan-hasina-khaleda.html#post4085732

On a serious note, you said India only 'suspects' BNP/Jamaat supported ULFA and Muslim extremist elements in India. That doesn't prove anything.

The fact is anyone can go in and out freely in Bangladesh. It's internal security is not that great despite its relatively large army.

We rooted out ULFA elements in Bangladesh, what benefit we got from India? They were no threat to us in the first place.

Indian media and the so-called 'defense-analysts' like Bharat Rashak say all kinds of things about Bangladesh. Mostly fictional things.

The AL isn't doing that great at the moment. One scam after another. And the Indian president's recent visit while Bangladesh was burning did not bode well as far as PR goes.

We handle our nation's affairs and development on our own terms. And not that of India's. Let's get that one straight before saying we are being 'anti-India'.

 

[kalu_miah]

Would you two geniuses like me to translate 'point of view' into Bengali? Or to give you the difference between published and recorded fact and point of view?

If you are going to accuse our past govt. of supporting insurgency in a neighbor state with your 'point of view' then should you not back it up with some kind of source at least? Stating your personal opinion without sources is same as making a baseless allegation.

And it sounds more like just another made up excuse for your govt. to meddle in our internal affairs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well, our prime minister recently said that Khaleda is a Pakistani dalal
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/242449-go-islamic-republic-pakistan-hasina-khaleda.html#post4085732

On a serious note, you said India only 'suspects' BNP/Jamaat supported ULFA and Muslim extremist elements in India. That doesn't prove anything. .......
The fact is anyone can go in and out freely in Bangladesh. It's internal security is not that great despite its relatively large army.

We rooted out ULFA elements in Bangladesh, what benefit we got from India? They were no threat to us in the first place.

Indian media and the so-called 'defense-analysts' like Bharat Rashak say all kinds of things about Bangladesh. Mostly fictional things.

The AL isn't doing that great at the moment. One scam after another. And the Indian president's recent visit while Bangladesh was burning did not bode well as far as PR goes.

We handle our nation's affairs and development on our own terms. And not that of India's. Let's get that one straight before saying we are being 'anti-India'.

Yes, I said that India only suspects BNP/ Jamaat supported ULFA and Muslim extremist elements in India. And as you cleverly spotted, that doesn't prove anything. Pretty good going. As it happens, in gathering intelligence and gauging what is going on and what is not, it is not always judicial proof under the laws of evidence that counts, very often, it is a piecing together of evidence, sometimes hearsay, sometimes suspected rumour, sometimes physical proofs - there is a mosaic of information, not evidence, that is pieced together. Nobody can go by the existence of judicial proof.

Nobody also is denying that people can go in and out of Bangladesh. If you had read carefully, my reference was to international travel, freely and frequently. Even in a disorganised, chaotic mess, the first thing that a government tends to watch very carefully is international travel through airports and sea ports. It is difficult to believe that Bangladesh authorities knew nothing.

Again, what difference does it make to me how the Awami League is doing at the moment? I am not a campaigner for them, either as a frequent visitor or as a well-wisher of the country. Why should their changing fortunes matter?

There is also a difference between allowing terrorist activity by inaction, and active support of such action. Not to know of the presence of terrorist elements because of lack of effort is passive support; it amounts to support of the terrorists by not taking action, by inaction. But to know of the existence of terrorists, and then decide not to act is one order of magnitude graver. This is now direct support; the duty of a law-abiding state is to quench terrorism at the point detected, not at the time that national interest permits it. Whatever was said or done before, whichever the state attacked, whichever the elements or entities attacking before, times have changed. Terrorism iscov ertakes that country.

It was not a question of what benefit you got from India for rooting out ULFA. That was the action of a responsible state, an action that demonstrated to the community at large that you were worth your freedom, and were not just a gang masquerading as a nation. What did you expect from your simple act of ceasing to support terrorism, the Nobel Peace Prize?

Your shrill shriek does not explain why in the middle of the somewhat disjointed remarks you made in your post, suddenly the Indian media, and the so-called defense-analysts of Bharat Rakshak turn up.What have either of them got to do with this issue? That they criticise you? Lots of people are criticised every day, lots of people do the criticising. Nobody dies, generally; no tornadoes are launched, no tsunamis happen, and the rest of that apocalyptic stuff. Who cares what Bharat Rakshak says? Why do you go there, if you dislike them so much? How come you go there so often, what need do you feel for it? How come you don't loathe them and stay away, the natural reaction? I haven't been there for a couple of years, and feel no need to be there. How is it that some others seem smitten?

Finally, your yeoman fortitude and splendid courage was quite wasted. It is such a delight to hear that you handle your nation's affairs and development on your own terms. And not that of India's. That being established, how does it affect objective observers pointing out that you are anti-India? Where is the contradiction? What is the point being made?

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you are going to accuse our past govt. of supporting insurgency in a neighbor state with your 'point of view' then should you not back it up with some kind of source at least? Stating your personal opinion without sources is same as making a baseless allegation.

And it sounds more like just another made up excuse for your govt. to meddle in our internal affairs.

Stating a point of view hardly amounts to an accusation of you, your past government, your aggregated population of sheep or anything else. Only an overinflamed imagination and a hyperactive sense of victimhood might believe that a point of view expressed goes beyond that. And why should stating my personal opinion without sources amount to making a baseless allegation? In my personal opinion, the moon is made of green cheese. Does that amount to anything more than a personal opinion?

Finally, if the Government of India wishes to intervene militarily in Bangladesh, I am persuaded that it might not have to depend entirely on my expressing a point of view to give it justification.

I think most of you bozos have no active life outside these fora. Get a life.

 

[kalu_miah]

Stating a point of view hardly amounts to an accusation of you, your past government, your aggregated population of sheep or anything else. Only an overinflamed imagination and a hyperactive sense of victimhood might believe that a point of view expressed goes beyond that. And why should stating my personal opinion without sources amount to making a baseless allegation? In my personal opinion, the moon is made of green cheese. Does that amount to anything more than a personal opinion?

Finally, if the Government of India wishes to intervene militarily in Bangladesh, I am persuaded that it might not have to depend entirely on my expressing a point of view to give it justification.

I think most of you bozos have no active life outside these fora. Get a life.

Trying to justify a baseless allegation still and getting upset, when we are pointing it out for what it is. PDF posters personal life is no concern of yours. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Yes, I said that India only suspects BNP/ Jamaat supported ULFA and Muslim extremist elements in India. And as you cleverly spotted, that doesn't prove anything. Pretty good going. As it happens, in gathering intelligence and gauging what is going on and what is not, it is not always judicial proof under the laws of evidence that counts, very often, it is a piecing together of evidence, sometimes hearsay, sometimes suspected rumour, sometimes physical proofs - there is a mosaic of information, not evidence, that is pieced together. Nobody can go by the existence of judicial proof.

Nobody also is denying that people can go in and out of Bangladesh. If you had read carefully, my reference was to international travel, freely and frequently. Even in a disorganised, chaotic mess, the first thing that a government tends to watch very carefully is international travel through airports and sea ports. It is difficult to believe that Bangladesh authorities knew nothing.

I was referring to international travel as well. And as I implied, Dhaka's airport security isn't that great. Let alone tracking all fugitives, criminals and terrorists coming from other countries. And if India did indeed identify terror suspects travelling in Bangladesh, did they inform Bangladesh?

The one thing was the ULFA destined arms haul found in Chittagong after an apparent tip-off from India. And that was way back in 2004 when BNP/Jamaat were in power.

And recall how that very administration handled the 'Bangla bhai' saga, a self-styled veteran of the Afghan-Soviet war.

So where is this financial, material and logistical support from BNP/Jamaat to anti-India elements? Though, some folks may support them 'spiritually' if you know what I mean

Again, what difference does it make to me how the Awami League is doing at the moment? I am not a campaigner for them, either as a frequent visitor or as a well-wisher of the country. Why should their changing fortunes matter?

It matters as far as India's interests in Bangladesh are concerned. I can assure you that

There is also a difference between allowing terrorist activity by inaction, and active support of such action. Not to know of the presence of terrorist elements because of lack of effort is passive support; it amounts to support of the terrorists by not taking action, by inaction. But to know of the existence of terrorists, and then decide not to act is one order of magnitude graver. This is now direct support; the duty of a law-abiding state is to quench terrorism at the point detected, not at the time that national interest permits it. Whatever was said or done before, whichever the state attacked, whichever the elements or entities attacking before, times have changed. Terrorism iscov ertakes that country.

Well, just because ULFA is a terrorist group in India, doesn't mean it applies in Bangladesh or any other country. There are ULFA agents even as far as Thailand. Or maybe even in other countries. Does that mean Thailand is supporting terrorists that are on India's list by that logic?

It was not a question of what benefit you got from India for rooting out ULFA. That was the action of a responsible state, an action that demonstrated to the community at large that you were worth your freedom, and were not just a gang masquerading as a nation. What did you expect from your simple act of ceasing to support terrorism, the Nobel Peace Prize?

Again, they are not a terrorist group in Bangladesh. And it costs money to perform those operations. I'm sure Hasina would like a Nobel!

“Why can’t we go ahead with the Teesta water sharing treaty right now” Mukherjee asked, adding that Bangladesh’s current government had already addressed India’s security concerns in a meaningful way by cracking down on the insurgents from the Northeast.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/239785-bangladesh-india-s-most-important-neighbour.html

So is Bangladesh addressing India's security concerns (with Bangladeshi money) technically linked to water-sharing contracts?

Man also takes a pi$$ on Pakistan and China at the same time

Your shrill shriek does not explain why in the middle of the somewhat disjointed remarks you made in your post, suddenly the Indian media, and the so-called defense-analysts of Bharat Rakshak turn up.What have either of them got to do with this issue? That they criticise you? Lots of people are criticised every day, lots of people do the criticising. Nobody dies, generally; no tornadoes are launched, no tsunamis happen, and the rest of that apocalyptic stuff. Who cares what Bharat Rakshak says? Why do you go there, if you dislike them so much? How come you go there so often, what need do you feel for it? How come you don't loathe them and stay away, the natural reaction? I haven't been there for a couple of years, and feel no need to be there. How is it that some others seem smitten?

I'm not a member of Bharat Rashak. But simply observed their articles.

Finally, your yeoman fortitude and splendid courage was quite wasted. It is such a delight to hear that you handle your nation's affairs and development on your own terms. And not that of India's. That being established, how does it affect objective observers pointing out that you are anti-India? Where is the contradiction? What is the point being made?

Isn't it obvious?

There are things which you, like many are blind toward as to what is really happening in this country. And best not to talk about the details here.

Here's a hint: All pro-Pakistan political forces of 71' are being violently suppressed by the current government with little regard to the law and human rights, and with third party support.

And of-course, there are strategic, economics and business matters too!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/central-south-asia/235318-dragon-gwadar.html
Indians ask for special economic zone | Business | bdnews24.com
http://www.economist.com/node/21524917

Among many others...