Indian govt behind Mumbai Attacks: Satish Verma

[Samlee]

But then Kasab also did not have any idea of Islam.. So its possible that he did not believe in singularity of God

He Has No Idea Of Islam But One Fine Day Goes On Jihad Honestly You Indians Are Confusing Me With Every Post

 

[karan.1970]

He Has No Idea Of Islam But One Fine Day Goes On Jihad Honestly You Indians Are Confusing Me With Every Post

do you think he had true understanding of Islam?

 

[ares]

Yes He Was Even Given A Briefing By ISI



TOI What A Source.When Pakistanis Quote It,It Is A Conspiracy Theory But When You Quote It Suddenly Becomes A Universal Truth

I knew somewhere along the line some Pakistani genius will start objecting to credibility of TOI and that is why I quoted the source in this particular thread.
Since this entire 20 page thread is based on a news, which originated in TOI(Didnot see you question the credibility of the original article here?) and was started by Def.pk admin...you can very well eat my shorts, for it is considered an acceptable source out here.

 

[ares]

And you know how many were convicted for that terrorist attack? NONE!! Because no agency could find any prove against any of the accused including Hafiz Saeed. And since all the actual perpetrators were either dead or in the case of the lone survivor, in Indian custody, we can safely assume that India had the charge of investigation and interrogation. Not just that, all other subsequent investigations, internationally, were driven from Indian investigations, claims and accusations.

How many terrorist have your courts convicted in last five years?..does that mean there is no terrorism happening in Pakistan, since Pakistan is unable to convict even a single terrorist??!!

FYI trial is still on going on 6 terrorist you arrested. Clearly your investigation agencies found enough evidence for your interior ministry to declare, that 26/11 was planned in Pakistan and by Pakistanis.

You let go Hafiz Saeed, despite the facts, when same evidence when presented to UN were enough for them to declare him a terrorist and his organisation a terrorist front, American found enough evidence keep a bounty on his head.This either shows your intention or the state of your justice system.

But now, a member of the Indian Civil Administrations comes out and states on record that it was actually the Indian Government behind the attacks. Perhaps they simply used hired guns to carry out the attacks, who knows. A through investigation of this accusation must be carried out under the Supreme Court of India guidance.

Go read up the new again and figure out the truth , do not twist the events to suit your needs!!

And by the way, we all very conveniently keep forgetting the first casualty of this attack, was it not a senior police official who had uncovered the involvement of Indian Army personnel in Samjhota express terrorism???? I mean, was that a coincidence????

Again you keep proving, neither you have yours facts straight to participate in conversation on the subject, nor are you smart enough to do the needful research before participating in one!!

1) Hemant Karkare was the chief of the Mumbai Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS).

2) ATS was investigating Malegaon blast(a blast in Maharashtra in which eight persons were killed) and not Samjhota Express blast.

3) ATS alleged that a radical Hindu group Abinav Bharat was behind this blast.

4) Being the head of Anti terrorist squad, he went to CST when he rcvd a call about a terrorist attack on CST station.
it was here Kasab was shot in the hand(the reason, we were able to capture him alive), before being shot by Ibrahim Khan(the other Pakistani terrorist.) who suddenly appeared and surprised them. Along with him 6 other police officials(three officers and 3 constables died in that firing by Ibrahim Khan.

 

[Mav3rick]

How many terrorist have your courts convicted in last five years?..does that mean there is no terrorism happening in Pakistan, since Pakistan is unable to convict even a single terrorist??!![/B]

However, the onus was on the India Government to prove involvement of Hafiz Saeed, which they failed to do. It was your failure then and it is your failure now, that is the point of focus here. And now, with the disclosure of your own Government Official, it is evident that HS had no role in any of those terrorism acts, but rather your own Government had the attacks carried out.

FYI trial is still on going on 6 terrorist you arrested. Clearly your investigation agencies found enough evidence for your interior ministry to declare, that 26/11 was planned in Pakistan and by Pakistanis.

You let go Hafiz Saeed, despite the facts, when same evidence when presented to UN were enough for them to declare him a terrorist and his organisation a terrorist front, American found enough evidence keep a bounty on his head.This either shows your intention or the state of your justice system.

Pakistanis, just like Indian government officials etc., are available for service. One can simply hire any of the many terrorist groups working against Pakistan, but operating from within and with local manpower, to carry out an attack even on Indian soil. This is especially true and provides a lot of facilitation when GoI is involved.

American bounty, as we all know, was placed on him because of his opposition to drone strikes and for his call to stand up to the USA. In UN, an individual cannot defend himself and anybody can be presented as a potential terrorist with planted evidence as UN does not have the mandate to actually verify or challenge the contents. Not only that, Hafiz Saeed openly offered to face any trial in any US court!

Go read up the new again and figure out the truth , do not twist the events to suit your needs!!

Your officials have accepted Hindu terrorist camps and spread of Hindu terrorism and you have been found wanting time and again on the front of claims and facts, from Samjhota Express to what not.

Again you keep proving, neither you have yours facts straight to participate in conversation on the subject, nor are you smart enough to do the needful research before participating in one!!

1) Hemant Karkare was the chief of the Mumbai Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS).

2) ATS was investigating Malegaon blast(a blast in Maharashtra in which eight persons were killed) and not Samjhota Express blast.

3) ATS alleged that a radical Hindu group Abinav Bharat was behind this blast.

4) Being the head of Anti terrorist squad, he went to CST when he rcvd a call about a terrorist attack on CST station.
it was here Kasab was shot in the hand(the reason, we were able to capture him alive), before being shot by Ibrahim Khan(the other Pakistani terrorist.) who suddenly appeared and surprised them. Along with him 6 other police officials(three officers and 3 constables died in that firing by Ibrahim Khan.

What a nice, detailed story. The ATS Chief is regulated to personally lead physical response teams??? Dude, seriously??? The ATS chief was actually targeted as per plan when he was shot dead at point blank range because he uncovered things that he should not have had.

 

[foxbat]

The title of the thread is incorrect. First of all, it was not Satish Verma's statement but someone else alleging that Satish Verma said this. And now Satish Verma has denied ever saying this.. @Awesome, @WebMaster .. Any special reason why the thread title should continue to be misleading. Is this an oversight or intentional ?

 

[ares]

However, the onus was on the India Government to prove involvement of Hafiz Saeed, which they failed to do. It was your failure then and it is your failure now, that is the point of focus here.

Since you have not been able convict even any of your own terrorist, onus of which lied on you, one should assume, their is no terrorism in Pakistan..isnt that right?
Problem lies with your judicial system and not the evidence we presented.
Indian courts were able to convict Pakistani terrorist, based on the same proof, American court were able to convict a Pakistani- American based on same evidence in addition to their own investigations..it is just your courts who are in a limbo.

And now, with the disclosure of your own Government Official, it is evident that HS had no role in any of those terrorism acts, but rather your own Government had the attacks carried out.

Here is the clarification from the 'govt' official. who's statement you people were blowing out of proportion

Never claimed Parliament House attack, 26/11 inside job: Ex-MHA official - Indian Express

Pakistanis, just like Indian government officials etc., are available for service. One can simply hire any of the may terrorist groups working against Pakistan, but operating from within and with local manpower, to carry out an attack even on Indian soil. This is especially true and provides a lot of facilitation when GoI is involved.

As your theory of GOI involvement has already been busted above, what else?

American bounty, as we all know, was placed on him because of his opposition to drone strikes and for his call to stand up to the USA. In UN, an individual cannot defend himself and anybody can be presented as a potential terrorist with planted evidence as UN does not have the mandate to actually verify or challenge the contents. Not only that, Hafiz Saeed openly offered to face any trial in any US court!

Did even your ISI chief had the cojones to go to US and face trial against him? That an international declared terrorist will.

Your officials have accepted Hindu terrorist camps and spread of Hindu terrorism and you have been found wanting time and again on the front of claims and facts, from Samjhota Express to what not.

Of hundreds of terrorist attacks in India over last three decades only 3 have been traced back to one or the other Hindu terrorist group( that too unearthed by our own investigation) unlike hundreds of them traced Islamic terrorism...but I do not need explain about scourge of Islamic terrorism to a Pakistani, do I?

What a nice, detailed story. The ATS Chief is regulated to personally lead physical response teams??? Dude, seriously??? The ATS chief was actually targeted as per plan when he was shot dead at point blank range because he uncovered things that he should not have had.

To a wild conspiracy theorist, who readily believes in hearsay, the truth will obviously sound like a fairy tale.

Hemant Karkare was not ordered anywhere as he him self was the chief of ATS. He proceed to the scene of on hearing about the new of terror attack.You know thats is what police does, when their a terror attack on their city.He personally took charge of the ops as It is the stuff, what heroes are made of.

He was shot from a AK-47 carried by Pakistani terrorist and not the standard issue service revolver or even INSAS.

 

[Mav3rick]

Since you have not been able convict even any of your own terrorist, onus of which lied on you, one should assume, their is no terrorism in Pakistan..isnt that right?
Problem lies with your judicial system and not the evidence we presented.
Indian courts were able to convict Pakistani terrorist, based on the same proof, American court were able to convict a Pakistani- American based on same evidence in addition to their own investigations..it is just your courts who are in a limbo.

But, have we not already concluded how incompetent the GoP is? However, that is not the case with GoI and thus our expectation of evidence that could take the matter towards prosecution. GoI failed because they had no 'evidence' of involvement of Hafiz Saeed. Our courts, or any other court for that matter, can only pass down sentences when presented with undeniable evidence/proof which was not forthcoming.

India could have convicted the prime minister of Pakistan, the ball was in their court, they owned the ball and they owned the crowd and referees too. The American must have been convicted because of his actual involvement. But the matter to note here is that GoP was not involved, not just that it is a fact that citizens of Pakistan do not support terrorism.

[/B]Here is the clarification from the 'govt' official. who's statement you people were blowing out of proportion

Never claimed Parliament House attack, 26/11 inside job: Ex-MHA official - Indian Express

Well, as far as I can understand, the report quotes the officer in contention of stating that the "Current Government" was not involved. That does not leave a lot to the imagination. From "The Hindu":

In his letter, Mr. Mani, who signed affidavits on behalf of his Ministry in the Ishrat Jahan case, has complained about pressure being put on him by senior IPS officer Satish Verma to implicate the IB in the drafting of a key affidavit. He added that Mr. Verma also believed the attacks on Parliament in 2001 and Mumbai in 2008 were set up “with the objective of strengthening the counterterror legislation.”

All that I am saying, is that the SC of India should open an investigation into the matter and find the perpetrators. They may have been able to sentence the hands who carried out the act but may have failed to address the brains behind. As per your claims, GoI will look even better if it comes out clean and it will also provide SC of India to hand down punishment to the officer.

As your theory of GOI involvement has already been busted above, what else?

Now that I have reproduced what Indian Media has provided, can you still claim the above? You obviously do not even understand the meaning of busted.

Did even your ISI chief had the cojones to go to US and face trial against him? That an international declared terrorist will.

Why would any serving Army General go to the court of some other country unless it is voluntary? You have no idea how absurd your arguments are getting now. HS offered to face trial in any US court on voluntary basis, his challenge was never picked up by the US Government. For obvious reasons.

Of hundreds of terrorist attacks in India over last three decades only 3 have been traced back to one or the other Hindu terrorist group( that too unearthed by our own investigation) unlike hundreds of them traced Islamic terrorism...but I do not need explain about scourge of Islamic terrorism to a Pakistani, do I?

That's because Indian Government and Indian Military is directly related in all those other attacks. How can the attacks be then traced back to the same Government/Military that is actually carrying them out?

And as there is no such scourge, atleast local, in Pakistan, there is no point in even beginning to explain to you what reality is.

To a wild conspiracy theorist, who readily believes in hearsay, the truth will obviously sound like a fairy tale.

Hemant Karkare was not ordered anywhere as he him self was the chief of ATS. He proceed to the scene of on hearing about the new of terror attack.You know thats is what police does, when their a terror attack on their city.He personally took charge of the ops as It is the stuff, what heroes are made of.

He was shot from a AK-47 carried by Pakistani terrorist and not the standard issue service revolver or even INSAS.

As I said earlier:

What a nice, detailed story. The ATS Chief is regulated to personally lead physical response teams??? Dude, seriously??? The ATS chief was actually targeted as per plan when he was shot dead at point blank range because he uncovered things that he should not have had.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...ai-attacks-satish-verma-20.html#ixzz2Zqar1t1J

It is time you read the SOP of ATS Chief, whether he is supposed to respond physically or to lead teams from his head quarters.

 

[Bang Galore]

The American must have been convicted because of his actual involvement.

err...there goes your theory then. He provided evidence of the LeT's involvement.

Well, as far as I can understand, the report quotes the officer in contention of stating that the "Current Government" was not involved. That does not leave a lot to the imagination. From "The Hindu":

Where? He said no such thing. He pointed out that the allegations of what he supposedly wrote were fabricated.

All that I am saying, is that the SC of India should open an investigation into the matter and find the perpetrators. They may have been able to sentence the hands who carried out the act but may have failed to address the brains behind. As per your claims, GoI will look even better if it comes out clean and it will also provide SC of India to hand down punishment to the officer.

On what grounds? The officer has denied he ever made that remark. The officer so quoted has simply refused comment. No court will/can take up such rubbish.

That's because Indian Government and Indian Military is directly related in all those other attacks. How can the attacks be then traced back to the same Government/Military that is actually carrying them out?

Yeah? Then why did your government accept involvement?

It is time you read the SOP of ATS Chief, whether he is supposed to respond physically or to lead teams from his head quarters.

Foolish and he paid a price.


Funny how Pakistanis will believe all this rubbish but yet will find a way to cook up an excuse for Osama Bin Laden's presence in Pakistan, in a garrison town.

 

[Mav3rick]

err...there goes your theory then. He provided evidence of the LeT's involvement.

On the contrary, he could not provide any such evidence. It was just his voluntary confessions which kept him out of any trial. And then, I cannot be 100% sure that LeT or its members were or were not involved......I can't be sure either way. But I have an open mind about the matters, unlike you guys.

Where? He said no such thing. He pointed out that the allegations of what he supposedly wrote were fabricated.

Read the first para and then try to figure out the point of emphasis.

On what grounds? The officer has denied he ever made that remark. The officer so quoted has simply refused comment. No court will/can take up such rubbish.

As do all criminals, deny their crime. It is now up to the courts to determine who lied and who did not. In any case, the Officer who filed such an affidavit must prove his claims.

Yeah? Then why did your government accept involvement?

You left the sentence halfway, kindly complete it. My incumbent Government accepted involvement of whom, itself, ISI, military or some individuals? And under extreme US pressure or without it?

Foolish and he paid a price.


Funny how Pakistanis will believe all this rubbish but yet will find a way to cook up an excuse for Osama Bin Laden's presence in Pakistan, in a garrison town.

So the ATS chief was foolish? People don't usually get to such position by being foolish my friend.

And Indians never fail to grasp opportunities to take the discussion away from its real topic.

 

[Bang Galore]

On the contrary, he could not provide any such evidence. It was just his voluntary confessions which kept him out of any trial. And then, I cannot be 100% sure that LeT or its members were or were not involved......I can't be sure either way. But I have an open mind about the matters, unlike you guys.

Nobody admits to a crime that gets them a very long prison sentence for nothing. you have heard of Abu Jundal, haven't you? He was in that room in Karachi......

Read the first para and then try to figure out the point of emphasis.

What para? This one....?

Former Home Ministry official R V S Mani has denied that he ever said the "Parliament attack and the Mumbai attack were orchestrated by the government in power".

As do all criminals, deny their crime. It is now up to the courts to determine who lied and who did not. In any case, the Officer who filed such an affidavit must prove his claims.

No crime was committed. There was nothing in the affidavit, that was a different case. Read carefully. He has denied making any such claim, the other officer has made no comments, there is simply nothing to investigate or punish.

You left the sentence halfway, kindly complete it. My incumbent Government accepted involvement of whom, itself, ISI, military or some individuals? And under extreme US pressure or without it?

Your government accepted that Kasab was Pakistani, filed a case & your FIA submitted evidence. Pressure does not mean Pakistan would commit suicide. There was a case to answer and Pakistan is still going through the motions.

So the ATS chief was foolish? People don't usually get to such position by being foolish my friend.

This is the ATS, not Special forces. A routine post for senior police officers, not regarded before 2008 as a particularly plum posting either. Not surprised at the foolishness.

And Indians never fail to grasp opportunities to take the discussion away from its real topic.

You have zilch & you are talking randomly about some affidavit? That's your proof?

watch:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/a-perfect-terrorist,65467/

A few months later, Headley began three years of training with Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan. He was instructed by Sajid Mir, a notorious terrorist believed to be connected to the ISI, Pakistan’s profoundly sketchy intelligence agency, as well as Major Iqbal, a shadowy figure also associated with the ISI. Eventually, he began to spend months at a time in Mumbai, scouting out targets by day and partying with Bollywood stars by night. He even used a GPS device to plot out the exact routes his terrorist minions—most of whom had never been to Mumbai before—would take. The Mumbai attacks were, by the standards of the modern terrorist, relatively low-tech, but “The Perfect Terrorist” shows just how meticulously planned they were—and how madly committed Headley was. By this time, Headley had also changed his name so that he could travel freely between India and Pakistan without provoking suspicion (it also helped that he looks like what the Pakistanis call a “gura,” an American or a Brit).

 

[Mav3rick]

Nobody admits to a crime that gets them a very long prison sentence for nothing. you have heard of Abu Jundal, haven't you? He was in that room in Karachi......

Well, the prison sentence is nothing compared to the potential electric chair that he was looking at, right? But that still was not my point, my point is simple, was he able to produce any evidence, even circumstantial, other then his testimony under duress? This person may have been involved in all likelihood, but was any Pakistani agency involved.....that is the question here, right?

As for Abu Jundal being in Karachi at the time of the Mumbai terrorism attacks.....well, first of all try to get some evidence of this guy's involvement and then try and prove where he was at the time. Once that is done, only then should you begin to determine who else was with him.

And still, nothing proves involvement of any Pakistani agency, officially.

What para? This one....?

Yeah, precisely that one........notice the part in bold:

"Former Home Ministry official R V S Mani has denied that he ever said the "Parliament attack and the Mumbai attack were orchestrated by the government in power".

So, was it orchestrated by the opposition? Government that was not in power, such as state agencies or ......

No crime was committed. There was nothing in the affidavit, that was a different case. Read carefully. He has denied making any such claim, the other officer has made no comments, there is simply nothing to investigate or punish.

So you say, but that is not what the newspapers printed. A Senior government official states on an official affidavit that another agencies official had confessed involvement of Indian Government in the terrorism and you want to brush it under the carpet?

Your government accepted that Kasab was Pakistani, filed a case & your FIA submitted evidence. Pressure does not mean Pakistan would commit suicide. There was a case to answer and Pakistan is still going through the motions.

Suddenly Rehman Malik is all so acceptable??? For 5 years you guys make fun of him but want to believe him when it suits you? Hmm...anyway, Kasab was Pakistani, Jundal was Indian and Headley was American, then why do you blame the GoP for involvement when nationals of different nations were/are involved. Furthermore, Kasab was most likely kidnapped from Nepal quite a while back by RAW. Others could have been brought in the same manner or with money.

This is the ATS, not Special forces. A routine post for senior police officers, not regarded before 2008 as a particularly plum posting either. Not surprised at the foolishness.

Not surprised at the foolishness of your post either, apparently, seniority is not earned in India.

You have zilch & you are talking randomly about some affidavit? That's your proof?

watch:

AV Club, really??

Besides, the affidavit is not any proof. The confession of an Indian Government official, to another, is basis from which proof can be dug if the will is there. If the will is to blame Pakistan for everything, then so be it.

 

[Bang Galore]

Well, the prison sentence is nothing compared to the potential electric chair that he was looking at, right? But that still was not my point, my point is simple, was he able to produce any evidence, even circumstantial, other then his testimony under duress? This person may have been involved in all likelihood, but was any Pakistani agency involved.....that is the question here, right?

Unlike what you might think, people don't face a potential death sentence without a shred of evidence. There are hundreds of hours of wire tap evidence available with the U.S. authorities. That was what helped convict his accomplice Rana. Why, according to you, would U.s. authorities conspire with some Indians to target Pakistan? A bit of a stretch even for your thinking, isn't it?

As for Abu Jundal being in Karachi at the time of the Mumbai terrorism attacks.....well, first of all try to get some evidence of this guy's involvement and then try and prove where he was at the time. Once that is done, only then should you begin to determine who else was with him.

There was enough evidence to persuade the Americans & the government of KSA . Pakistan was so desperate that it claimed that he was Pakistani.Why the desperation if the Pakistani state was not involved ?

And still, nothing proves involvement of any Pakistani agency, officially.

The above action did as did Abu Jundal's confession.

Yeah, precisely that one........notice the part in bold:

"Former Home Ministry official R V S Mani has denied that he ever said the "Parliament attack and the Mumbai attack were orchestrated by the government in power".

So, was it orchestrated by the opposition? Government that was not in power, such as state agencies or ......

That is bordering on the ridiculous. An allegation was made that he had said something about the government & he said that he didn't. He certainly was not referring to the opposition or other agencies...

So you say, but that is not what the newspapers printed. A Senior government official states on an official affidavit that another agencies official had confessed involvement of Indian Government in the terrorism and you want to brush it under the carpet?

Maybe you should go back & read again. He was the man responsible for submitting the affidavits on behalf of the Home Ministry in the Ishrat Jahan case. It was alleged that he had written a letter to the HM complaining about intimidation by an officer of the SIT & who supposedly said this about the 26/11 & the parliament attacks. The police officer mentioned has not commented & the Home Ministry official has clarified his position. Nothing is being brushed under the carpet, we cannot help if you read wrongly & draw even more crazy conclusions.

Suddenly Rehman Malik is all so acceptable??? For 5 years you guys make fun of him but want to believe him when it suits you? Hmm...anyway, Kasab was Pakistani, Jundal was Indian and Headley was American, then why do you blame the GoP for involvement when nationals of different nations were/are involved. Furthermore, Kasab was most likely kidnapped from Nepal quite a while back by RAW. Others could have been brought in the same manner or with money.

Nobody blames the GoP, the most that has been done is to blame elements in the state apparatus. It is not about Rehman Malik, the NSA of Pakistan confirmed Kasab's identity and the FIA has produced evidence in court on the LeT's involvement.

As for Kasab being kidnapped, the main argument from the conspiracy theorists is that Kasab was not Pakistani & was not speaking the way Pakistanis do. How does that square off with the story that he was abducted from Nepal? He should still speak like a Pakistani, shouldn't he? Why would the Americans join in & why would your FIA support Indian claims? Everyone involved eh? Except you?

Btw, did you watch the video produced by channel 4 that I posted?

Not surprised at the foolishness of your post either, apparently, seniority is not earned in India.

Your ignorance is astounding, are you suggesting that senior officers never make mistakes? No Generals would have ever lost a war then, right? By all accounts, the Late Mr. Karkare was a competent officer & a good man. He simply, like any other senior police officer, anywhere in India (with the probable exception Of Delhi) was simply unprepared & under trained for a scenario like the one that happened. Probably won't happen again but I remember a time when the GoC in C, Northern command was almost killed by a wounded militant when he went to see for himself. A Brigadier was killed in that attack. To argue that senior officers don't make mistakes is foolish. Something that many Pakistanis should be able to certify easily.

Besides, the affidavit is not any proof. The confession of an Indian Government official, to another, is basis from which proof can be dug if the will is there. If the will is to blame Pakistan for everything, then so be it.

There is no confession. All there is simply qualifies as hearsay. Pointless when the officer who supposedly made that remark is just a mid level police officer nowhere in the picture of anything & posted in the state of Gujarat & far away from any of the incidents. Pakistan is blamed because that is where the attacks originate from & is the position of both the GoP as well as the FIA, as on date.

 

[Black Widow]

News Eye , Mehar Abbasi , 16 July 2013 , 16-07-2013 , Mumbai Attacks , Talk Show , Dawn News - YouTube


Indian person rebuking morons...

 

[Awesome]

@CENTCOM, what is the United States government's view on this? The US took a very aggressive and anti-Pakistan stance on the issue. Now we have an Indian government official cast doubt on the whole thing and even previous Indian false flag activities. Does the US government even acknowledge, doubt? Or is it still a blind following of the Indian position and criticizing Pakistan.