Indian Foreign Affairs News & Discussions (non-US & Pakistan related

[Awesome]

India faith leaders: Anti-gay law must stay - CNN.com

Religious leaders condemn HC judgement on gays

Gay is bad, chorus maulanas, saffron brigade & Church

The thing is, Gays can easily just live and exist... But what happens when they want to embrace religion?

 

[Awesome]

AA,

Since you are one of the sane members here i will try to explain it in a much more saner version

Quran has its own interpretations and Indonaesia interprets it in a different way from Pakistan but both of you are Islamic Republics.

Turkey's and Indonesia's gay laws probably have nothing to do with the Quran. As I said, every religion ideally hopes to have its followers choose the religion and its ways rather be arm-twisted in a "no choice" scenario.

Pakistan has a long way to go to come to that realization, despite the fact that we have very public gays out there... The fruity display of the gay celebrities doesn't help put up a decent image of Gays either.

Turkey and China has far more liberal gay laws than India but the homophobics here have never told the muslims to rise up in those countries or hoped for their break up as the person who initiated this thread of his supporters have tried to do.

I'm pretty sure they have... At least the rise up against the Gays part.

Now lets get to the laws in India widely reported on the UN website

It does not cancel Section 377 ie

1. Its illegal to have nonconsensual gay sex.
2. Consensual gay sex with anyone under 18 is illegal.
3. Consensual gay sex in public is a crime.

However, consensual gay sex between adults done in private can no longer lead to criminal prosecution and thats all. Who is the biggest looser- The corrupt Police blackmailers.

They have in no way legalised gay sex but have treated it on par with cancer or any other disease for which you can go to a hospital or a mosque, church etc and get your treatment.

That shows that the JUDGES ARE BRILLIANT.

Regards

Actually they should have just left at plain simple consensual sex between adults. How you have sex really shouldn't be the business of the state.

The real test of India's tolerance would be when they debate gay marriages and adoption rights. Now marriage IS in large the business of the state.

 

[Awesome]

Actually this judgment by high court turns the argument on its head. Now it will be up to the elected authorities to change the constitution to say that gay sex does not violate human rights. That has low chances of passing (need 2/3rds majority). India is conservative, but it is not that conservative that parliament is going to pass a constitutional amendment.

Before the judgment by courts the case was that a change of law was needed to make homosexuality legal. Again that would have been difficult to pass since no one wanted to stand up for homosexuals (Except the health minister).

BTW, this ruling does not stop religious authorities from preaching against homosexuality. What this ruling really does is to make the punishment of homosexuality an area for religious authorities and removing the state from this business. Religious authorities can ex-communicate homosexuals or criticize them.

The lawmakers would do what earns them the most votes.

Do gay votes trump religious votes in India now?

I think they're better off arguing that sexual orientation is not the business of the state

 

[Always Neutral]

India faith leaders: Anti-gay law must stay - CNN.com

Religious leaders condemn HC judgement on gays

Gay is bad, chorus maulanas, saffron brigade & Church

The thing is, Gays can easily just live and exist... But what happens when they want to embrace religion?

Come on AA,

Who has met God or Allah,

How do we know he did not like gays, people with cancer, with two noses etc ?

We just interpret the laws as per our convinience.

Lets take islam ! If it was so easy to interpret why are the Shia and Sunnis killing each other in khurram ( more than 2000 this year only) ?

Okay now about gays, why do they need to go to a church or a mosque to get acceptance ?

Does not Godliness lie in ones heart ?

My god is a Pint of Stella and it gives me a lot of Peace.



Regards

 

[wtf]

The real test of India's tolerance would be when they debate gay marriages and adoption rights. Now marriage IS in large the business of the state.

Not in India, it isn't. We don't have a common civil code in India. Muslims, Hindus, Parsees and Christians have different laws for marriage, divorce and for some part, inheritance.

There is a "special" marriage act that is entirely state business. It is usually used for interfaith marriages, couples marrying against family wishes etc. but we'll see if that gets amended. It is unlikely that there will be similar pressures in India like US for gay marriages. There is no significant tax benefits from marriage in India.Adoption laws are extremely strict. Neither is inheritance such a complicated business like in US.

 

[jeypore]

Always Neutral
Okay now about gays, why do they need to go to a church or a mosque to get acceptance ?

Does not Godliness lie in ones heart ?

Yes, also to take note that in America there are gay churches that have started, Usually they are the ones in the secret corners.

My god is a Pint of Stella and it gives me a lot of Peace.



Regards

good one, I bet Pint of Stella gives more peace then the worlds religions combine.

 

[wtf]

good one, I bet Pint of Stella gives more peace then the worlds religions combine.

It's the afterlife the next morning that's a disaster.

 

[Awesome]

Come on AA,

Who has met God or Allah,

How do we know he did not like gays, people with cancer, with two noses etc ?

We just interpret the laws as per our convinience.

Lets take islam ! If it was so easy to interpret why are the Shia and Sunnis killing each other in khurram ( more than 2000 this year only) ?

Okay now about gays, why do they need to go to a church or a mosque to get acceptance ?

Does not Godliness lie in ones heart ?

My god is a Pint of Stella and it gives me a lot of Peace.



Regards

God only flipped the land of Soddom upside-down for their rampant homosexuality. Not many ways to interpret that.

So gays are confined to reject religion and live atheistic lives. Some of them would be believers themselves despite their sexual orientation, which is what it has probably been like for centuries.

You know people saying that homosexuality is a mental condition? Whereas that probably doesn't sound like a nice way to put it, its sort of correct. That it being a condition, at least. Just like we don't CHOOSE to be hetrosexual, how can someone choose to be homosexual? It probably is the way they are wired. I don't think any hetrosexual guy here made a consciencious decision one day to like girls... right? So it probably is some sort of genetic trait passed down in generations.

Now heres the funny bit. If the homophobes just let the homosexuals be and not force or guilt trip them into hooking up with the opposite sex. Then maybe, this genetic trait would not have been passed down over the centuries.

So I don't know what some guys here are fretting about. Especially in the case of India! The fruitier, the better. It's an added issue for their army to deal with. 1 million men thrown together. Even the US army hasn't come to terms with gays in the forces and prefer to follow a don't ask, don't tell policy.

 

[Al-zakir]

So you finally came out from your miserable basement since the humiliating defeat of your teams.

Islam is full of gay excerpts.

You are smoking some unusual homemade crack that is getting into your left over brain. on second thought you are still suffering from T20 defeat so may be it a permanent damaged........What a loss...

Well done Indians and India. Muslims of India who oppose this in a violent way should be given a one way ticket to hell or the Saudi

India can implement any laws as it wish. None is our concern. It can even allow to have marriage law between men and animal if it desire.......Leave Islam out of this barbaric behavior.

 

[Always Neutral]

AA, Come on

God only flipped the land of Soddom upside-down for their rampant homosexuality. Not many ways to interpret that.

Were you and me there to watch it ? Is there a video on U tube to confirm it ? What happens if the people on earth are wiped out and 1000 years later a new generation finds a book of Harry Potter ? Will that be reality ?

So gays are confined to reject religion and live atheistic lives. Some of them would be believers themselves despite their sexual orientation, which is what it has probably been like for centuries.

Who said that they cannot have their own churches and mosques. In Uk we have a Lesbian Preacher and atleast 100 normal couples attend her mass.

You know people saying that homosexuality is a mental condition? Whereas that probably doesn't sound like a nice way to put it, its sort of correct. That it being a condition, at least. Just like we don't CHOOSE to be hetrosexual, how can someone choose to be homosexual? It probably is the way they are wired. I don't think any hetrosexual guy here made a consciencious decision one day to like girls... right? So it probably is some sort of genetic trait passed down in generations.

Hell you know when the London Bridge was being built 200 years ago they had to tunnel under the Thames and in more than 100 feet of water pressure. Some of the workers had no problem and others became sick and even died and what did the church say that they were sinners. Then 50 years later a guy called haldane made the gas laws which lead us to know about the Bends. So today gay tendancy genes are unknown tommorrow it maybe simple science.

Now heres the funny bit. If the homophobes just let the homosexuals be and not force or guilt trip them into hooking up with the opposite sex. Then maybe, this genetic trait would not have been passed down over the centuries.

I AGREE.

So I don't know what some guys here are fretting about. Especially in the case of India! The fruitier, the better. It's an added issue for their army to deal with. 1 million men thrown together. Even the US army hasn't come to terms with gays in the forces and prefer to follow a don't ask, don't tell policy.

Actually Pakistan should follow Turkey, China, Indoneasia and jinnah ie Politics, islam and sex dont mix as state policy.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

So you finally came out from your miserable basement since the humiliating defeat of your teams.




You are smoking some unusual homemade crack that is getting into your left over brain. on second thought you are still suffering from T20 defeat so may be it a permanent damaged........What a loss...




India can implement any laws as it wish. None is our concern. It can even allow to have marriage law between men and animal if it desire.......Leave Islam out of this barbaric behavior.

Islam Allows

Drinking of camel urine but you will deny it.

Allows you to marry 13 year old girls but you will deny it.

Indoneasia, Turkey and China allow gays but you still love them.

Heaven in Islam has " handsome boys serving non-alcoholic drinks" but you will deny it.

I can go on but its futile as you will always be a homophobe.

Regards

 

[qsaark]

Drinking of camel urine but you will deny it.

Only for medicinal purposes. No where in Islamic books it is recommended as coca cola.

Allows you to marry 13 year old girls but you will deny it.

Establishing sexual relations as husband and wife is always better than having them extramaritally. Western societies see no problem in teen age sex but find it difficult to understand why Islam allows marrying 13 years old girls. Besides there is no lower age limit. A girl reaching to child bearing age is fit for marriage.

Heaven in Islam has “handsome boys serving non-alcoholic drinks" but you will deny it.

Nothing to be denied and what wrong you find about it.

I can go on but its futile as you will always be a homophobe

You have already said you are an atheist, why talking about something you don’t know about.

 

[Durran3]

Speaking of gays i am going to watch Bruno next week

 

[nationalist]

I felt it is a wrong move.Anyways ,getting it legalized is no small thing.Supreme Court will dismiss this kind of pleas for sure.

Moreover ,Western Feminism and Gay Pride has got nothing to do in South Asia.

 

[Awesome]

AA, Come on

Were you and me there to watch it ? Is there a video on U tube to confirm it ? What happens if the people on earth are wiped out and 1000 years later a new generation finds a book of Harry Potter ? Will that be reality ?

Well thats what belief is. Btw, Archaeology has shown signs of destroyed cities mentioned in the old testament, but yes theres no way to actually prove God did because of a particular reason. So now to be gay would also mean to reject faith.

You've heard about those priests turning out to be closet gays right? So it probably happens that SOME gays might be faced with a choice. To reject their sexual orientation or their faith.

Who said that they cannot have their own churches and mosques. In Uk we have a Lesbian Preacher and atleast 100 normal couples attend her mass.

Again, in the case of churches and mosques, these would be considered heretics who have CHANGED something that God wrote. Their religion would be man-mad then. And you know in matters of faith God, trumps man.

Actually Pakistan should follow Turkey, China, Indoneasia and jinnah ie Politics, islam and sex dont mix as state policy.

Regards

No argument there. But these sort of discussions only come in once the bigger issues are dealt with. I think raising secular law in Pakistan would aid the cause of terrorists and things won't get a chance to be discussed in the media.

Pakistan has only like 3-4 theocratic laws, btw. Most of them, like hudood ordinance, blasphemy laws are not followed more than being harassment tools. The two mentioned above have been under fire from the secularists since over a decade. Musharraf repealed one of the laws concerned to voting, where non-Muslims can only vote for non-Muslim candidates, and he reintroduced the joint electorate system. He even came close to abolishing the hudood ordinance, but then had to settle for the womens empowerment act. So things are more in motion, than it may appear to an outsider.