Indian forces kidnap four Kashmiri from Neelum Valley

[my2cents]

Story sounds rather stretched. In any case if they were just local civilians then I hope they are safely returnd, irrespective of where they were actually caught, if they were caught at all.

Local Neelum valley residents protest regulalrly against the pakistani state's pushing of militants across the border for just this, they bear the brunt.

In 2011

BBC News - Anti-militant protests in Pakistan's Neelum valley

in 2012

Strike in Neelum valley against militant activities - DAWN.COM

Strike in Neelum valley against militant activities
TARIQ NAQASH TARIQ


Published
2012-08-05 20:04:51
MUZAFFARABAD, Aug 5: Residents of Neelum valley observed a strike on Sunday in protest against alleged activities of outlawed militant groups as talks between them and an official team failed to take any decision over the matter, sources said. Businesses and shops in the valley mostly remained closed on Sunday, they said.

Former AJK minister Mufti Mansoor-ur-Rehman, Neelum Bar Association president Mir Gohar Rehman and Mir Nazir Danish briefed the official team comprising Muzaffarabad commissioner Sardar Zafar Khan and DIG Khalid Mahmood Chauhan about the looming threat to the valley’s peace in the wake of dangerous activities of proscribed militant groups.

The talks which were held in a government guesthouse in Athmuqam, some 80km northeast of here, followed a protest march on Friday during which similar demands were made by the residents feeling insecure after scattered rocket attacks on Indian posts by some unknown people.

The Neelum valley straddles the Line of Control (LoC) which saw regular skirmishes and artillery duels between Indian and Pakistani troops, causing mostly civilian causalities, until both sides struck a ceasefire deal on Nov 26, 2003.

“The activities of the banned outfits have caused serious concern from one end of the valley to the other and we will not allow anyone to use our territory for ‘terrorist activities’ against anyone,” the official team was told by the residents.

They recalled that they had suffered the worst physical and material losses in the days of escalation along the LoC and could not afford its recurrence in the aftermath of any misadventure.

They demanded that law-enforcement agencies should immediately expel all those elements from the valley “who were bent upon ruining its peace and tranquillity for vested interests”, according to the sources.

The official team assured them that their demands would be presented to the high-ups and in the meanwhile they should end their protest.

Syed Naseer Kazmi, a member of the Neelum Bar, told reporters that the talks had failed and their protest against the outlawed militant groups would continue.

“We will stage a complete ‘wheel-jam’ strike in the valley on Aug 9,” he said.

This correspondent made several attempts to ascertain the views of the official team, but its members were not available for comments.

 

[Star Wars]

The problem doesn't start from the 90's , it is just an extension of the Kashmir dispute . So , now we will start to discuss the ' terrorism in Pakistan and Indian connection ' in an irrelevant thread ? I dont doubt that you wont be repaid in kind , that time isn't far away . We will take the Waziristan by ourselves - comprising 0.1 % of our country by ourselves , no need to worry . Trust me , the subcontinent turning into a nuclear wasteland before Pakistan breaking is a more plausible scenario , google the ' Samson's Option ' . There's a reason why you have mobilized and backed off , three times in a row now .

As for the topic .

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...lled-machil-were-hunters-4.html#ixzz2bLiSEvu4

Enlighten yourself .

first of all.......the source of the news is GreaterKashmir.com.... a big "lol" on that

Kashmir dispute should have been solved in a more civil manner and not supporting terrorists to blow innocent civilians ...that is your fault.... the rest of your post is nothing more than wishful thinking... the usual "We will nuke you " ,"We will destroy you"> " Pakistan will divide you into 100 pieces " that's more like Zaid Hamid Talk . Besides tell me when you do take back your country ... then ill believe you "repaying in kind" as of right now... you are too busy trying to keep it together.


pst - i got leave for Eid

 

[Areesh]

first of all.......the source of the news is GreaterKashmir.com.... a big "lol" on that

Kashmir dispute should have been solved in a more civil manner and not supporting terrorists to blow innocent civilians ...that is your fault.... the rest of your post is nothing more than wishful thinking... the usual "We will nuke you " ,"We will destroy you"> " Pakistan will divide you into 100 pieces " that's more like Zaid Hamid Talk . Besides tell me when you do take back your country ... then ill believe you "repaying in kind" as of right now... you are too busy trying to keep it together.


pst - i got leave for Eid

If you have been reading news websites instead of trolling here on Defence.pk like many other idiots then you might have known that Greater Kashmir is no way a pro freedom or pro Pakistan source. Read few other news on that website and you might realize that. And secondly no stupid excuse or justification or reasoning is going to deny the fact that Indians first kidnapped and then killed four innocent villagers just for there greed for earning some reward from their govt.

Besides tell me when you do take back your country ... then ill believe you "repaying in kind" as of right now... you are too busy trying to keep it together.

Just like the above quoted I just love it when disappointed with there own politicians and military, Indians pin there hopes on TTP and BLA. This is just a brilliant feeling for us Pakistanis.

 

[Star Wars]

If you have been reading news websites instead of trolling here on Defence.pk like many other idiots then you might have known that Greater Kashmir is no way a pro freedom or pro Pakistan source. Read few other news on that website and you might realize that. And secondly no stupid excuse or justification or reasoning is going to deny the fact that Indians first kidnapped and then killed four innocent villagers just for there greed for earning some reward from their govt.



Just like the above quoted I just love it when disappointed with there own politicians and military, Indians pin there hopes on TTP and BLA. This is just a brilliant feeling for us Pakistanis.

Awww..those evil YIndus kidnap and kill innocent Kashmiris...booohooo ..... How evil of these Yindos ...wher have i not heard that

We don't have to pin hopes on them...they are doing the job for us and as i said ... Indians don't call their army Kuffar , while many in Pakistan do ... We are disappointed at our politicians...but as if your politicians are any better... as for the military... they have defeated you 4 times and divided your country .....Soldiers fought and died.....did not surrender in mass or hide under the sewer..

Now am waiting for conspiracy theories on how Pak actually won kargil war, 65 war and how they won 71 war ...

 

[Areesh]

Awww..those evil YIndus kidnap and kill innocent Kashmiris...booohooo ..... How evil of these Yindos ...wher have i not heard that

Rant.

We don't have to pin hopes on them...they are doing the job for us and as i said ... Indians don't call their army Kuffar , while many in Pakistan do ... We are disappointed at our politicians...but as if your politicians are any better... as for the military... they have defeated you 4 times and divided your country .....Soldiers fought and died.....did not surrender in mass or hide under the sewer

And more rant.

Didn't again deny the main topic this thread is based upon.

 

[Star Wars]

Rant.



And more rant.

Didn't again deny the main topic this thread is based upon.

oh no..am not denying it....except the 4 kidnapped men where working for jihadist factories across the border ... am all for killing terrorists by hook or by crook



pst - go check the meaning of the word "rant" in a dictionary before you use it

 

[Areesh]

oh no..am not denying it....except the 4 kidnapped men where working for jihadist factories across the border ... am all for killing terrorists by hook or by crook

Typical Indian story devoid of facts or proof. For us they were villagers and you haven't done anything to prove it otherwise.

 

[Star Wars]

Typical Indian story devoid of facts or proof. For us they were villagers and you haven't done anything to prove it otherwise.

Why should i prove anything to a person who think 26/11 , 9/11 is an inside job

Typical Indian story devoid of facts or proof. For us they were villagers and you haven't done anything to prove it otherwise.

nop..there is no proof and we will never know as they are dead....but if you think rationally for a second you know Indians would not cross 400meters inside your border just to capture a few civies

 

[Areesh]

Why should i prove anything to a person who think 26/11 , 9/11 is an inside job


nop..there is no proof and we will never know as they are dead....but if you think rationally for a second you know Indians would not cross 400meters inside your border just to capture a few civies

They have crossed even before many times to first arrest civilians and then kill them in fake encounters. So this wasn't a first time incident. Secondly a few proof are mentioned in the article that Secur shared. So we firmly believe they were villagers who became victim of someone's greed for money and rewards.

 

[Star Wars]

They have crossed even before many times to first arrest civilians and then kill them in fake encounters. So this wasn't a first time incident. Secondly a few proof are mentioned in the article that Secur shared. So we firmly believe they were villagers who became victim of someone's greed for money and rewards.

I doubt you read the Article that secur posted ...becuase i read it before he even posted it here.... selective reading does not help anyone...

 

[Secur]

first of all.......the source of the news is GreaterKashmir.com.... a big "lol" on that

Kashmir dispute should have been solved in a more civil manner and not supporting terrorists to blow innocent civilians ...that is your fault.... the rest of your post is nothing more than wishful thinking... the usual "We will nuke you " ,"We will destroy you"> " Pakistan will divide you into 100 pieces " that's more like Zaid Hamid Talk . Besides tell me when you do take back your country ... then ill believe you "repaying in kind" as of right now... you are too busy trying to keep it together.


pst - i got leave for Eid

First of all , instead of first looking at the source , one must look at the content , where he will find that the source itself cites other sources from Indian media which clearly prove something , which isn't the guides of the terrorists being killed

“Local residents, who helped bury the bodies after they were handed over to local police through a special police officer attached to the army, said at least two of the men were wearing rubber flip-flops-again, unusual gear for men who had infiltrated mountain passes leading through the rugged Neelam valley,” the Firsptpost reported, while quoting persons, who buried those slain “militants” killed by Army on 30 July in Machil.

Other police sources in Kashmir are raising doubts about the encounter.

Raising fingers, it reported, “You would expect terrorists to carry weapons like the AK-56″, a senior Jammu and Kashmir-based army officer said, “but I can’t understand what they’d be doing with a 12-bore gun, which is typically used for hunting small prey”.

On 6 August, five Indian troopers were killed in Poonch sector near de-facto border by “heavily-armed men in the uniform of Pakistan army”. Many publications, including The Hindustan Times and Firstpost reported that attack might be in “retaliation to abduction” of four men from the Pakistan side of Line of Control (LoC).

The Director General of Jammu and Kashmir Police Ashok Prasad told local English daily Greater Kashmir that police can investigate the complaint on directions from the MHA “since the matter pertains to the Defence Ministry.” “If Pakistan lodges the protest at the diplomatic level, the complaint can be probed,” he said. “The matter (Machil complaint) is in our notice but we can’t probe it until that country takes up the matter on diplomatic level.”

Musk hunting takes place on other side of the area where the July 30 clash took place, he added.

Exclusive pictures: Men killed in Machil encounter were hunters? - Latest Kashmir News & Analysis - - Kashmir Dispatch

This, and only this, do we know for a fact: early this month, Zafran Ghulam Sarwar, Wajid Akbar, Mohammad Wajid Akbar and Mohammad Faisal left their homes on the Pakistani side of the control in the Neelam valley, and never came back. Pakistan claims they were innocent herb collectors, who were kidnapped by an Indian special forces engaged in an offensive counter-terrorism operation across the Line of Control.

India says it has no idea what happened to the men. Not long after they disappeared, though, five still-unidentified men were shot dead by Indian troops in the same area, 500 metres on the Indian side of the Line of Control. Naresh Vij, an Indian army spokesperson, said troops had “not recovered any bodies as they are lying very far.”Privately, Indian intelligence officials posted in the sector speculate the men may have indeed been targetted by special forces — but insist they were guides for jihadist groups crossing the Line of Control, not innocent men executed by the army for no reason at all.

Exclusive: Dirty war on LoC preceded deadly Poonch ambush - Firstpost

Not interested in starting the story from '47 , not really , Islamabad always gave you enough time . The rest of my post conveys the most plausible scenarios , radioactive wastelands are more probable than Pakistan breaking up , its no jingoism and no rhetoric . When do we take back our country ? Its already in our hands except for a few scattered presence of militants in the tribal areas , which are common even in your country . Going by your logic , when are you taking back the Red Corridor ?

Good to hear .

 

[Star Wars]

First of all , instead of first looking at the source , one must look at the content , where he will find that the source itself cites other sources from Indian media which clearly prove something , which isn't the guides of the terrorists being killed



Exclusive pictures: Men killed in Machil encounter were hunters? - Latest Kashmir News & Analysis - - Kashmir Dispatch



Exclusive: Dirty war on LoC preceded deadly Poonch ambush - Firstpost

Not interested in starting the story from '47 , not really , Islamabad always gave you enough time . The rest of my post conveys the most plausible scenarios , radioactive wastelands are more probable than Pakistan breaking up , its no jingoism and no rhetoric . When do we take back our country ? Its already in our hands except for a few scattered presence of militants in the tribal areas , which are common even in your country . Going by your logic , when are you taking back the Red Corridor ?

Good to hear .

The red corridor is decreasing day by day ....their leaders are dying....they have divided into different factions and those factions are fighting each other...while yours seem to be increasing day by day ..... "few scattered militants" ...that is far from true...you are under playing the whole thing .... and you know it ... how about you check how many people died in Karachi due to attacks and how many died in kashmir .... the ratio is almost 20:1

You really buy the "innocent herb collectors" collecting herbs in LOC story ? who the hell collects herbs in LOC...

as for the nukes thing....it is pretty much jingoism...."we will turn your country into wasteland" is something which has been repeated a million times by folks like Zaid Hamid ....

 

[Secur]

You really buy the "innocent herb collectors" collecting herbs in LOC story ? who the hell collects herbs in LOC...

Trust me , I have a lot to say about your country , two can surely play this game too , but the thread will be fooked in a second . I am yet to come across a report which claims/proves that Taliban have gained hold of any other area except the North Waziristan , which I myself told you .

Connect the dotes . That is all , I have left to say . People just dont go missing near LOC , are reported as such with complete names by their families and end up dead by the army on other side and then the doubts are cast on the encounter by the police , do they ?

No , we dont have nukes

 

[Star Wars]

Trust me , I have a lot to say about your country , two can surely play this game too , but the thread will be fooked in a second . I am yet to come across a report which claims/proves that Taliban have gained hold of any other area except the North Waziristan , which I myself told you .

Connect the dotes . That is all , I have left to say . People just dont go missing near LOC , are reported as such with complete names by their families and end up dead by the army on other side and then the doubts are cast on the encounter by the police , do they ?

No , we dont have nukes

Taliban mentality , secretarianism , PAk army being KUfir according to some people in this forum... hate against minorities...shi'a killings is all what am talking about... DO i have to explain everything to you ?


Did i say India did not abduct them ? people just don't go collecting herbs in LOC....if they were abducted by IA , they were for good reason..not because they wanted some silly medals or any other stupid reason which most if you are saying .... Herb collectors in LOC if there is anyone who will believe it its Pakistanis


You may have nukes...but you do not have enough to destroy a subcontinent ....most of our important cities are going to be defended by BMD in the near future .. and besides 1 nuke does not mean 1 city destroyed ...... not sure why a Jr. think tank is boasting about nuking the sub continent ...its pretty pathetic.....

 

[Hobo1]

I am sure war is gonna happen soon...

You with your totally broken economy surely wouldn't be able to afford such a war.