Indian films losing audience in Pakistan

[ajpirzada]

well actually i would lik to agree with agnostic muslim. ppl in pakistan are now kind of deaf to indian voices after 60 yrs of listenin..... might be a wrong thing but i guess its true...

 

[Energon]

Non-state actors from Pakistan allegedly attacked an Indian city - that does not justify demonizing the entire country.

I think it is apparent that no one 'gives a hoot' about the Indian 'anger' in Pakistan anymore either.

The people of Pakistan will sympathize with India over her tragedy - we will not roll over and just take all the misplaced abuse dished out at us from Indians.

Work through the proper channels, cooperate with us and respect us, and most will not have any qualms about extending our own hand in friendship and cooperation - if Indians choose to 'not give a hoot', the sentiment will be reciprocated.

Acute sympathies have little empirical value after the bombs go off, cities get held hostage and scores of people are dead... yet again. And its obvious that there is a lack of substantial sympathy toward Indian civilians or else these organizations would have never have existed in the first place, attracting cadres of volunteers to commit these horrific violent acts with troubling consistency for decades on end. Colin Powell made an excellent reference to this point when he talked about his conversation with Zardari in the aftermath of the raids on the seven compounds... to which Powell asked in amazement 'why were seven compounds even there to begin with'?

Again, Pakistan has repeatedly proved that equatability is something it is clearly unworthy of; which is why nobody takes Pakistan's demands of cooperation through proper channels seriously; its simply a fatal mistake nobody is willing to repeat, it just so happens that US and NATO forces have the means to change their mind a whole lot quicker. If anything, attempts to improve relationship with Pakistan and treating it with respect is something Manmohan Singh's progressive government will be severely castigated for, just as his predecessor was when peace talks were followed up with the Kargil invasion. And you realize these sentiments aren't based on some unfounded perceptions of threats, or conjecture; we're talking about deadly subversive crimes or acts of war here.

Work through the proper channels, cooperate with us and respect us, and most will not have any qualms about extending our own hand in friendship and cooperation - if Indians choose to 'not give a hoot', the sentiment will be reciprocated.

This is the part that puzzles me the most. Reciprocation is a non entity in the light of a pre-emptive strike. The damage is already done, and this message you speak of came through loud and clear, only it wasn't in a reciprocative manner and innocent Indian, American, British and Israeli civilians were its recipients.

This is no longer a two way street mate, that ship has long sailed; I'm not really sure you realize the gravity of what has just transpired. No nation in it's right mind can even begin to entertain demands of "respect" when the transgressor is a staging ground for insurgencies and relentless and horrendous attacks upon its civilians. Pakistan is hardly in a position to demand anything at this point, let alone respect or friendship.

It is also this absolute lack of trust in Pakistan's ability to conduct herself in a respectable and responsible manner that has prompted the US and NATO to take unilateral action. You were upset with S-2 on another thread and claimed that he was dehumanizing Pakistanis, as I'm sure you'll feel about my message here; but you fail to realize that people within Pakistan have already brought this upon their entire society (many of whom I'm sure want nothing to do with it).

 

[EagleEyes]

Indian movies need to be banned. I dont even know why Pakistani Cinemas allow these movies. If someone wants to watch it, buy a pirated one. Pakistan needs to build its own industry, otherwise we will have a culture similar to that across the border. Many signs are already here. We shouldn't have a culture of sluts, gays, and begharti which are openly visible in the movies across the border.

Hard it may sound. Such things needs to be checked, because we are not them.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Indian movies need to be banned. I dont even know why Pakistani Cinemas allow these movies. If someone wants to watch it, buy a pirated one. Pakistan needs to build its own industry, otherwise we will have a culture similar to that across the border. Many signs are already here. We shouldn't have a culture of sluts, gays, and begharti which are openly visible in the movies across the border.

Hard it may sound. Such things needs to be checked, because we are not them.

totally agree with your idea. we need to choke out their influence, it's affecting everything, our lifestyle and culture. these things were very different just a decade ago, now it's starting to tip towards the border.

Pakistan should do more to start its own film industry. I seriously hope we can send people to places like Hollywood to study film-making, graphics, etc. our film industry should be like every other industry in the world, something that covers all genre. not the usual indian theme of running out into the streets and dancing, or running out into the field and singing, or the more recent trend of stripping down naked and having sex.

I would love to see an action movie, or maybe something based off of historical events besides partition. it would be even better if we stay clear of anything that is not suitable for our audience. I'm not saying lock women down in burqas. Instead, we can have movies that everyone can see, whether it's for teenage males like me, adults, women, kids, and families.

P.S: webmaster, I can see you're interested in the chick from Smallville, good taste.

 

[Rafael]

well we should have something more like KHUDA KE LIYE. and get rid off "falaana" gujjer stuff.. i wonder do they have an audience?? these films??

 

[roadrunner]

Pakistan needs to build its own industry, otherwise we will have a culture similar to that across the border.

Yup, precisely.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Acute sympathies have little empirical value after the bombs go off, cities get held hostage and scores of people are dead... yet again. And its obvious that there is a lack of substantial sympathy toward Indian civilians or else these organizations would have never have existed in the first place, attracting cadres of volunteers to commit these horrific violent acts with troubling consistency for decades on end. Colin Powell made an excellent reference to this point when he talked about his conversation with Zardari in the aftermath of the raids on the seven compounds... to which Powell asked in amazement 'why were seven compounds even there to begin with'?

Your attempt to validate your assertion of superficial sympathy from Pakistanis, on the basis of the presence of militant camps, is flawed, as is Powell's hypocrisy in pretending to be amazed about the presence of the aforementioned camps. Where was his amazement about the camps and violent 'non-state' proxies that the US funded and supported during the Afghan jihad, and various other proxy misadventures in Latin America? I suppose he can afford to be a 'moral voice' now that he is out of the administration, though, as I pointed out, morality should start at home.

These camps were nothing more than a continuation of covert methods and polices perfected by the US, and applied by the US, Pakistan and India in various theaters, all with considerable loss of innocent life - Pakistan merely continued to use these methods a bit longer than the other two (though suggestions of US involvement with Jundullah and Indian involvement with the BLA continue). But back to your argument - your assertion is flawed because the intent behind these camps was never to launch terrorist attacks of the kind we saw in Mumbai - the intent was to tie down and bleed the Indian Army in Kashmir, as were the US efforts through proxies in Afghanistan vs the Soviets and the Indians in East Pakistan. The US never planned for AQ to morph out of the chaos of Afghanistan, nor that 911 would be among the acts committed by people born of an environment she had a hand in creating - neither did Pakistan.

Another crucial aspect is that people genuinely do not believe in the Indian and Western allegations of the complicity of these groups in terrorism like that of Mumbai, such is the distrust and suspicion with which both entities are viewed. That distrust is why I continue to argue for cooperation from India with Pakistan, since cooperation and mutual respect will be the only way to remove it. The sympathy for India's plight in Mumbai is therefore substantial - the presence of the camps does not render it superficial for the reasons I mentioned.

Again, Pakistan has repeatedly proved that equatability is something it is clearly unworthy of; which is why nobody takes Pakistan's demands of cooperation through proper channels seriously; its simply a fatal mistake nobody is willing to repeat, it just so happens that US and NATO forces have the means to change their mind a whole lot quicker. If anything, attempts to improve relationship with Pakistan and treating it with respect is something Manmohan Singh's progressive government will be severely castigated for, just as his predecessor was when peace talks were followed up with the Kargil invasion. And you realize these sentiments aren't based on some unfounded perceptions of threats, or conjecture; we're talking about deadly subversive crimes or acts of war here.

This is the part that puzzles me the most. Reciprocation is a non entity in the light of a pre-emptive strike. The damage is already done, and this message you speak of came through loud and clear, only it wasn't in a reciprocative manner and innocent Indian, American, British and Israeli civilians were its recipients.

This is no longer a two way street mate, that ship has long sailed; I'm not really sure you realize the gravity of what has just transpired. No nation in it's right mind can even begin to entertain demands of "respect" when the transgressor is a staging ground for insurgencies and relentless and horrendous attacks upon its civilians. Pakistan is hardly in a position to demand anything at this point, let alone respect or friendship.

It is also this absolute lack of trust in Pakistan's ability to conduct herself in a respectable and responsible manner that has prompted the US and NATO to take unilateral action. You were upset with S-2 on another thread and claimed that he was dehumanizing Pakistanis, as I'm sure you'll feel about my message here; but you fail to realize that people within Pakistan have already brought this upon their entire society (many of whom I'm sure want nothing to do with it).

Pakistan has proved no such thing - when India can decide to act upon its obligations under the UN charter and implement the UNSC resolutions , when she can repair the damage caused to Pakistan in 1971 and reverse her actions in Siachen, is when India can lecture Pakistan about 'responsibility'.

Contrary to what you have argued, proper channels were never followed with Pakistan. They were not followed when working out an agreement with Pakistan over the US invasion of Afghanistan, they were not followed when demanding action against suspects in Pakistan, nor their transfer into US custody. The continued circumvention and abuse of the law and constitution by various entities, domestic and foreign, has arguably been a primary factor in the deterioration of Pakistan, and yet you still argue in favor of continuing that violation of the law and system.

It is therefore time for Pakistanis to assert themselves and argue for 'proper channels' and the rule of law, both in our external relations and internally with respect to the various groups and militias challenging the writ of the State. While it may be a while yet before a democratically elected government can stand up to the US for a variety of reasons, there should be no circumvention of the law on Indian demands.

MM Singh can continue with his belligerence, and take his token show of 'disrespect' to his electorate. Pakistanis, as can be evidently seen, will say 'shove off' and go about our own business. We have no significant ties to India - trade or otherwise, nor has any sign been forthcoming from Indian that a normalized relationship would offer the potential of any compromise from India on the Kashmir issue, despite Pakistan's own suggestions of compromise solutions. India offers not more than naught to Pakistan, should it choose to break off this close to non-existent relationship.

MMS has set a high and unlikely bar of 'extradition' that is not going to be fulfilled any time soon, and has not found any resonance so far in global capitals. He will fall flat on his face if he continues insisting upon it. In fact, the demands from global capitals have been entirely of Pakistan herself acting against these entities and punishing them within Pakistan - a quite obvious justification and acceptance of the Pakistani position of 'due process' and the supremacy of the Pakistani constitution.

Just today PM Brown was quoted asking for access in Pakistan to the arrested militants for his country's LEA's to interrogate. He was refused (which I disagree with), but what that indicates is n attempt to work through the proper channels. I think Indians are off on 'la la land' in their analysis of Pakistan's 'global isolation', with respect to Pakistan being forced to accede to Indian demands, and you have fed into that hype, when the facts indicate otherwise.

That said, there is little doubt that the West will demand sincere cooperation on these groups, and you will find no objections form me on that count - we should offer sincere cooperation. But as of now the West is also doing all of which I have said is necessary -cooperation with Pakistan, sharing intelligence, sharing information, and respecting her laws (With respect to the investigation related to non-FATA based groups), all of which runs counter to the sorts of demands India has made of Pakistan, and her behavior post Mumbai attacks.

I am referring to reciprocity between peoples and nations - the 'message' wasn't that of Pakistan and the Pakistani people, despite your flawed insistence on equating us with it. I have never defended the people within Pakistan who have brought chaos upon Pakistan, but I have been critical of the indefensible assertions that 'generalize' Pakistanis and Pakistan.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

If we are to have a film industry, let's shift away drastically from pointless song and dance, and focus on what Hollywood does except with a Pakistani twist. Look at what M Night Shyamanalanama is doing in the US as an Indian director and producer, that kind of caliber should be exhibited in the Pakistani industry or we should start making good indie flicks and promoting them at international film festivals to garner interest in our industry. This can only be done by making good movies.

 

[Vinod2070]

We certainly are not and this has no economic impact either to you or us and neither is that the intent. It just is a demonstration of what the Pakistani nation is feeling. A reaction to the overtly jingoistic tone being taken up in India.

source: Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I don't think the message here is that some sort of financial loss is being inflicted upon the Indian film industry and therefore the Indian economy, but the point that in the face of belligerence and jingoism from India in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, Pakistanis have said 'shove off' to an icon of Indian 'soft power'.

In other words, disrespecting and demonizing us will not win you many friends here.

I see your viewpoint. It is a valid one.

I disagree that Indian films have demonized Pakistan or it's people (may be a very small number did).

Again we both have opposing views on the demonization aspect. The Pakistani media and politicians are no less jingoistic. Almost every show starts with the 150 rebellions in India and advises India to look within. Your very senior politicians and journalists talk about not being like "those Hindus"! I have never seen the same in India. Then there are people like Zaid Hamid who seem to have quite a following. What does that guy do except billowing out hate? Your dramas and plays were always doing the same.

So blaming India alone is pointless. We are both guilty. Indian media may just be guilty of being more influential but then that is not really a guilt!

 

[Vinod2070]

Again, while wishing the best to the attempts to build a world class film industry, I have to say that it is not really possible to plan to create one.

This is a unique industry that happens to get created in few countries with a confluence of many factors. You can't try and force those factors.

There are very few countries with a thriving domestic film industry. Hollywood is dominant and then the Indian film industry has a following in many parts of the world. It was not something that was planned by anyone. It just happened due to various factors that need to be understood before trying to replicate the success of these industries.

 

[aimarraul]

no surprise,we imported lots of Indian films from the late 1980s to the early 1990s,but now you can barely see any Indian film in TV,I don't think it have anything to do with the relationship between the two countries,Indian films are not that attractive,similar stories，easier life for screenwriter..... same situation in china....

 

[Geromix]

These camps were nothing more than a continuation of covert methods and polices perfected by the US, and applied by the US, Pakistan and India in various theaters, all with considerable loss of innocent life - Pakistan merely continued to use these methods a bit longer than the other two (though suggestions of US involvement with Jundullah and Indian involvement with the BLA continue). But back to your argument - your assertion is flawed because the intent behind these camps was never to launch terrorist attacks of the kind we saw in Mumbai - the intent was to tie down and bleed the Indian Army in Kashmir, as were the US efforts through proxies in Afghanistan vs the Soviets and the Indians in East Pakistan. The US never planned for AQ to morph out of the chaos of Afghanistan, nor that 911 would be among the acts committed by people born of an environment she had a hand in creating - neither did Pakistan.

Another crucial aspect is that people genuinely do not believe in the Indian and Western allegations of the complicity of these groups in terrorism like that of Mumbai, such is the distrust and suspicion with which both entities are viewed. That distrust is why I continue to argue for cooperation from India with Pakistan, since cooperation and mutual respect will be the only way to remove it. The sympathy for India's plight in Mumbai is therefore substantial - the presence of the camps does not render it superficial for the reasons I mentioned.

Regarding what u said about the intent of these camps that they are meant to bleed the Indian army in Kashmir and not kill innocents in Mumbai is completely incorrect.
There are videos of Hafiz Saeed clearly talking of bleeding all of India and not just the Indian army in Kashmir.

Again this is where the ideology comes in-the terrorists are waging a "jihad" not against an army but a nation and its people.
The ideology is extremist and is in line with Islamic fundamentalism,India is a Hindu nation,all non-believers must be killed etc.

There allegations of close links between those who are fighting for Kashmir like LeT and groups like Al-Qaeda.

Even if one is to believe you that these camps are only meant to fight for Kashmir how can u justify violence which leads to high collateral damage in the form of loss of innocent Kashmiri lives.
This proxy war has only managed to kill more innocent Kashmiris and Indians than Indian soldiers and given a reason for India to continue to hold on to Kashmir.

Regarding Indian films being not watched in Pakistan the message is obviously not to inflict any kind of financial damage but as you,Agnostic pointed out is to "shove off" India's cultural icons etc.

India and Pakistan have fought many wars and the relations between the two have never really been anything close to friendship but the people of Pakistan have continued to watch Bollywood movies all these years.

This really is temporary,time after again tensions have risen and jingoism too risen but after some time its back to Indian movies.

The only way this could be permanent is when Pakistani movie industry transforms itself into something far better than it is today.Be it scale or be it the quality a lot has to improve.
I have yet to see any change in Pakistani movie industry.Quoting a couple of good films is not just enough.
This ultimately is an industry and this has to be a profitable one,from what i know of there are very few cinema halls in Pakistan and piracy is rampant.

Unless there are more theaters and halls in Pakistan it becomes a loss making making industry.
If i am not wrong then most people watch Bollywood movies in Pakistan on pirated CDs/DVDs.

Also somebody said if Bollywood movies are shown then the cultures of the two countries will become the same.The cultures of Pakistan has quite a number of similarities with Indian states bordering Pakistan like Punjab.Differences exist but the difference between the two is certainly less than that of two neighbors like Japan and China.

 

[paritosh]

Indian films might not be popular with people on defence.pk...but they are quite popular in pakistan just as the indian tv shows have always been.Previous attempts at banning them have resulted in people buying pirated movies which they do even now.It is because pakistan has a void here...the pakistani movies are too few...and most of them are copies of bollywood films(most of which are in turn copies of hollywood flicks)...i liked 'khuda ke liye' but such films do not have a popular reach.So as long as Pakistan doesn't come up with a commercial film industry...Indian/pirated Indian movies will thrive.now if you disagree on Indian movies being popular..go to the General images and multimedia forum and go to the upcoming films thread and you would see the impact that the bollywood films which were meant to cater an Indian audience have had in Pakistan.

 

[afriend]

I hope the sale of pirated CD's too are down..!!!!

 

[rubyjackass]

I hope the sale of pirated CD's too are down..!!!!

Gud one!!!