Indian democracy loses to Chinese efficiency - by 160 votes

[chauism]

Hi GPit and Chausim,

You guys said that chinese did not think about the genocide in Tiananmen. Care to tell me why 150,000 of your country men gathered with candles in Hong Kong ?

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Hong Kong's Tiananmen beacon

It was the strongest possible answer by the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong to the Chinese government's efforts to sweep the memory of the Tiananmen massacre under the carpet.

A huge crowd, which the organisers said numbered 150,000, gathered at Victoria Park in Hong Kong to remember the anniversary of the massacre on 4 June 1989. That would make it the biggest anniversary commemoration of all here.

Hope you will not blame this article on western media bias.

Regards

Actually this is not a western media bias issue. If you know the history of HK, you should realize that even right now there are a lot of anti-China and pro-Britain factions in the legislature council and society. Never underestimate what little demagogic speech can do. Actually those factions are the ones that fiercely promote propaganda s against China, you see them everywhere in train stations, subways exits and airport. As for the number of 150,000 I kind of doubt it, only if you know how small Victoria Park is.

 

[gpit]

Why and how is this related to the current thread ???

I'm amazed at you IQ.

 

[gpit]

Hi GPit and Chausim,

You guys said that chinese did not think about the genocide in Tiananmen. Care to tell me why 150,000 of your country men gathered with candles in Hong Kong ?

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Hong Kong's Tiananmen beacon

It was the strongest possible answer by the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong to the Chinese government's efforts to sweep the memory of the Tiananmen massacre under the carpet.

A huge crowd, which the organisers said numbered 150,000, gathered at Victoria Park in Hong Kong to remember the anniversary of the massacre on 4 June 1989. That would make it the biggest anniversary commemoration of all here.

Hope you will not blame this article on western media bias.

Regards

Always Neutral,

Since you are calling me... and I'd love to point out to you that you’ve sadly compromised your self-proclaimed neutrality, if you still remember what I said not long ago. Pay attention to the boldfaced.

Tiananmen incidence is an failed experimental of an interplay between government and ordinary people. The failure is accelerated by internal forces that wish to turn China into chaos so as to maximize their interest. As evidences are revealed, the student leaders themselves are no good: they wanted their interest only, not for the people. The incident will remain as a valuable lesson and will never be forgotten. -- my conclusion from interaction with the Chinese in China.

… Bottom line is that no body likes massive violence, including CPC.

And I still maintain it as of today, by adding one more statement: the difficulty to compromise during the event was also aggravated by improper and/or evil-intentioned foreign forces.

BTW, I love to see people in HK memorize this moment, peacefully, and for all to remember it forever. And I also feel it is very stupid not to talk and remember this.

Per the topic, regardless of 6.4, the Chinese in general enjoy a life, which is much better off than Indians in most areas.

 

[Always Neutral]

Always Neutral,

Since you are calling me... and I'd love to point out to you that you’ve sadly compromised your self-proclaimed neutrality, if you still remember what I said not long ago. Pay attention to the boldfaced.

.

Dear Gpit,

My post was to you as well Chausim,

Chausim because he said that such a massacre never took place and that no one even remembers it eventhough he himself lives in HK.

I have been to Victoria Park and it does not mean that 150000 have to be in the park itself. They can fill in the access roads to. You still seem to be in reluctant denial by your above post, questioning the nos inspite of seeing the media photos of the candle light vigil.

As regards your comments about china learning something from it I agree otherwise they would have tried the same in HK with disastrous consequences.

Time to wake up and accept that a genocide took place in 1989 and the western media was not biased and then move on. I think the chinese govt. with its forward looking policies should have allowed a similiar peacefull prayer in tianammen square and buried the incident forever unless they are scared and have something to hide.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

Always Neutral,


Per the topic, regardless of 6.4, the Chinese in general enjoy a life, which is much better off than Indians in most areas.

Shows your mentality. Please compare with UK if you have the guts.

Regards

 

[chauism]

Dear Gpit,

My post was to you as well Chausim,

Chausim because he said that such a massacre never took place and that no one even remembers it eventhough he himself lives in HK.

I have been to Victoria Park and it does not mean that 150000 have to be in the park itself. They can fill in the access roads to. You still seem to be in reluctant denial by your above post, questioning the nos inspite of seeing the media photos of the candle light vigil.

As regards your comments about china learning something from it I agree otherwise they would have tried the same in HK with disastrous consequences.

Time to wake up and accept that a genocide took place in 1989 and the western media was not biased and then move on. I think the chinese govt. with its forward looking policies should have allowed a similiar peacefull prayer in tianammen square and buried the incident forever unless they are scared and have something to hide.

Regards

Interesting, can you quote me again for where I said it did not take place and people don't remember it happened at all?

I just said as well as Gbit, people in China carry on and enjoy their lives now, why should they bother at all. Besides the government is not the same as it was 20 years ago. I guess You just want some closure right? You know what there are a lot of things I want closures from US government too, but will I get it? I guess not, at least not for now.

 

[chauism]

Shows your mentality. Please compare with UK if you have the guts.

Regards

Maybe this will bring some light to you.
The Pew Global Attitudes Project

And this as well.

The Dictatorship of Talent
By DAVID BROOKS

Let’s say you were born in China. You’re an only child. You have two parents and four grandparents doting on you. Sometimes they even call you a spoiled little emperor.

They instill in you the legacy of Confucianism, especially the values of hierarchy and hard work. They send you off to school. You learn that it takes phenomenal feats of memorization to learn the Chinese characters. You become shaped by China’s intense human capital policies.

You quickly understand what a visitor understands after dozens of conversations: that today’s China is a society obsessed with talent, and that the Chinese ruling elite recruits talent the way the N.B.A. does — rigorously, ruthless, in a completely elitist manner.

As you rise in school, you see that to get into an elite university, you need to ace the exams given at the end of your senior year. Chinese students have been taking exams like this for more than 1,000 years.

The exams don’t reward all mental skills. They reward the ability to work hard and memorize things. Your adolescence is oriented around those exams — the cram seminars, the hours of preparation.

Roughly nine million students take the tests each year. The top 1 percent will go to the elite universities. Some of the others will go to second-tier schools, at best. These unfortunates will find that, while their career prospects aren’t permanently foreclosed, the odds of great success are diminished. Suicide rates at these schools are high, as students come to feel they have failed their parents.

But you succeed. You ace the exams and get into Peking University. You treat your professors like gods and know that if you earn good grades you can join the Communist Party. Westerners think the Communist Party still has something to do with political ideology. You know there is no political philosophy in China except prosperity. The Communist Party is basically a gigantic Skull and Bones. It is one of the social networks its members use to build wealth together.

You are truly a golden child, because you succeed in university as well. You have a number of opportunities. You could get a job at an American multinational, learn capitalist skills and then come back and become an entrepreneur. But you decide to enter government service, which is less risky and gives you chances to get rich (under the table) and serve the nation.

In one sense, your choice doesn’t matter. Whether you are in business or government, you will be members of the same corpocracy. In the West, there are tensions between government and business elites. In China, these elites are part of the same social web, cooperating for mutual enrichment.

Your life is governed by the rules of the corpocracy. Teamwork is highly valued. There are no real ideological rivalries, but different social networks compete for power and wealth. And the system does reward talent. The wonderfully named Organization Department selects people who have proven their administrative competence. You work hard. You help administer provinces. You serve as an executive at state-owned enterprises in steel and communications. You rise quickly.

When you talk to Americans, you find that they have all these weird notions about Chinese communism. You try to tell them that China isn’t a communist country anymore. It’s got a different system: meritocratic paternalism. You joke: Imagine the Ivy League taking over the shell of the Communist Party and deciding not to change the name. Imagine the Harvard Alumni Association with an army.

This is a government of talents, you tell your American friends. It rules society the way a wise father rules the family. There is some consultation with citizens, but mostly members of the guardian class decide for themselves what will serve the greater good.

The meritocratic corpocracy absorbs rival power bases. Once it seemed that economic growth would create an independent middle class, but now it is clear that the affluent parts of society have been assimilated into the state/enterprise establishment. Once there were students lobbying for democracy, but now they are content with economic freedom and opportunity.

The corpocracy doesn’t stand still. Its members are quick to admit China’s weaknesses and quick to embrace modernizing reforms (so long as the reforms never challenge the political order).

Most of all, you believe, educated paternalism has delivered the goods. China is booming. Hundreds of millions rise out of poverty. There are malls in Shanghai richer than any American counterpart. Office towers shoot up, and the Audis clog the roads.

You feel pride in what the corpocracy has achieved and now expect it to lead China’s next stage of modernization — the transition from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. But in the back of your mind you wonder: Perhaps it’s simply impossible for a top-down memorization-based elite to organize a flexible, innovative information economy, no matter how brilliant its members are.

That’s a thought you don’t like to dwell on in the middle of the night.

The Dictatorship of Talent

 

[Mujahid91]

Indian democracy is this some kind of a joke or a harsh reality ? Indians are former slaves they are following thier master's law white maybe they need fair and lovely to be white.

 

[gpit]

Shows your mentality. Please compare with UK if you have the guts.

Regards

AN,

I’ve plenty of guts, perhaps more than you’d expected.

Yes, China is much backward than UK (off topic). This fact doesn’t negate the fact that: yes China is better off than India (per the topic).

Another fact is China (and India) is rising and UK is declining. I know it is painful to many patriotic British. I remember the tears (of Chris Patten, et al) rolling down in synch with the Union Jack in HK, 1997. I was also told that UK is the only developed country that begs for help from IMF, though I haven’t personally verified it because I’m not particularly interested in that. I can understand, perhaps more than others, the sun-set feelings, since, perhaps more than others, I understand the history and ground reality of East and West.

All said, it does not negate the fact, either, that China needs to appropriately make reference to, and use some of, good governance by UK (not on-going UK parliament scandal stuff, of course).

BTW, I think the people of the world are far too lenient towards UK colonial atrocities committed across the world, yielding a casualty 10000 time more than that of Tiananmen incident.

 

[gpit]

BTW again.

Why India is less advanced than China? The main reason is that they believe UK system is great (no question about that as long as it applies to the kingdoms), so they coped it and apply to their own people and land with their own cultures/traditions that is vastly different from that of UK, and with merger resources that can hardly support a costly system (because the resources were all gone to the treasury of UK).

May I say it’s all the fault of UK’s slavery education imposed on Indians as well as relentless pillage?

On the contrary, US forefathers bearing UK tradition AND purged all native Indians paving a smooth way to implement a modified UK system. This yields a completely different result.

 

[chauism]

Indian democracy is this some kind of a joke or a harsh reality ? Indians are former slaves they are following thier master's law white maybe they need fair and lovely to be white.

You just reminded me that someone from India was saying that Britain had 100% Indian population under control with no problem on this forum.

 

[Mujahid91]

You just reminded me that someone from India was saying that Britain had 100% Indian population under control with no problem on this forum.

which is Pakistan right now the Muslims in India were always fighting for the freedom is Indians who got the free Freedom Muslims did spill thier blood of freedom we call Pakistan and India.Old India which is Pakistan right now was always a conflict zone we never gave up our land

 

[Always Neutral]

Always Neutral,


Per the topic, regardless of 6.4, the Chinese in general enjoy a life, which is much better off than Indians in most areas.

I am no great supporter of the comparisons of who is better but one thing even you will find hard to refute that till date I or U have yet to see one photo of a column of Indian tanks in the middle of Srinagar (or any other part of India) being stopped by a frail man with nothing but his bags and his fearless convictions.



Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

BTW again.


On the contrary, US forefathers bearing UK tradition AND purged all native Indians paving a smooth way to implement a modified UK system. This yields a completely different result.

And two hundred years later you are doing the same in Tibet and with Uighers happily.

Well done keep it up and copy the US just as you copy USSR, EU and US military technology.



Regards

Ps; Most Chinese still prefer to enter US legally and illegally if they can afford it than stay in china. Wonder why they flee the perfect utopian chinese motherland.

 

[Always Neutral]

BTW again.



May I say it’s all the fault of UK’s slavery education imposed on Indians as well as relentless pillage?

On the contrary, US forefathers bearing UK tradition AND purged all native Indians paving a smooth way to implement a modified UK system. This yields a completely different result.

Don't forget to thank our brave fore fathers for saving some ones backside in WWII otherwise you would saying banzai on this forum.

Regards

Ps : If UK and US were barbarians, we had good examples to learn from, the long line of genocidal so called Chinese emperors. Just read your history however the only difference is UK learnt from its mistakes and China still continue genocide whether it was in Tiananmen or now Tibet.