Indian democracy has an ugly side

[rubyjackass]

Ruby

What kind of a piece was it that Farzana presented? Was it an a "persuasion" piece? If it was a persuasion, was she successful in her contengtion? Did she offer convincing evidence to support her contention ??


Give the devil his due - Farzana has both technical prowess and talent and she believes inand has a pretty good understanding of the things she writes about --So, what are we to make of your

Have you presented us evidence , have you tried to persuade us to your point of view? Had you done this what contribution would it have to our underdstanding of the issue, especially in the light of .

She presented a pessimistic picture of Indian democracy. About how some people still do some things just for the sake of being an Indian. I agree with her on this.
That was not a persuasion piece obviously(from what i understand from the definition of persuasion piece). It asks moderate muslims of India to be true to their hearts. Only then India can be judged fairly whether it is communal or not. If a 'Communist' kind of patriot sees this piece, the first thing he would have done is to send a hate mail to her. But we all know what she says is true from where she is seeing.
Majority may not mind giving communal forces the power once in a while, she claims there should be zero chance given to them if India were to prove itself to be not communal. I differ here, right wing parties' support acts as an indicator of the mettle(or the lack of it) of secular parties. Her view is that BJP should disappear from face of India(despite the 'progress' it offers) to make it non communal. My view is that parties like BJP should be there, continually getting their *ss kicked reminding the world that they are given a fair chance yet people do not support them to a large extent.
On the other hand, just that the congress came to power does not mean everything is good. Caste and community are still playing a major role in a candidate's choice. This is really true. Only because of this Indian muslims did not see sufficient representation in Parliament. I believe if we clean this up automatically a lot of problems get solved. I mean if true merit prevails.

And she claims that 'rally-wallah Musalmans know exactly which cause to espouse and when. They will join in issues which have international appeal – Palestine, Iraq, Mumbai attacks'. But unlike what she claims---'How many take out morchas for Dalits, or those killed by Naxalites, or in Malegaon or Bhiwandi blasts?', I think rally wallah muslims do join in issues like Naxalites etc., albeit in numbers true to their local population picture. Only the media does not make a 'even muslims are protesting for this cause' kinda **ap.

I also do not agree with the ringtone of duas and slokas scenario. India need not become USA.

I did not in any way insult her talent. In fact I have already read reviews of her book and liked them then and have read some of her interviews.


Shortly this is the point of the piece as I see.

The danger is not over with Congress gaining power. Not with BJP loosing power, actually it aggravated the situation by giving Modi a better stage. And muslim elite worsen it by dancing to Modi's 'stairway to heaven'.

Some of her fears are based on the reasoning that Modi is the worst among BJP obviously due to Godhra. I am still not convinced if Modi personally has a hand in it. So the fears may be unfounded. But if Modi did intend Godhra, then the 'religion+progress burger' has slowly made its market. All India should do is keep such forces in check.

Ultimately muslims should make leaders of their own, not own in the sense that they talk about muslim brotherhood alone, in the sense that they can lead the entire nation. Muslims can truly acknowledge secularism of India when India allows success for such leaders.
Probably there is not one of that kind now who understands things at the level Farzana did. Only there are people discontent with how things are and there are 'patriotic' people who feel content with whatever secularism India has to offer and always avoid 'hurting' the feelings of the majority.

 

[muse]

Nicely done, Ruby.

What would you make of the suggestion that perhaps Farzana is pointing to immaturity and opportunism among some such as the "rally wallah" types.

An institution as large of "democracy" in India is by definiton simultaneously a solid, a liquid and a gas and all things in between. See there is no point in suggesting that it is otherwise, because momentarily it is and as soon as you add another persepective, it's something else, as well -- isn't it ??

So, what the heck does that mean? can we not pin this so called democracy in India, down, and characterize it?

 

[EjazR]

I agree that just having muslims MPs is not the only indicator of muslim political representation. Although, I would like the propotion of muslim MPs to grow, their calibre also has to improve. I am happy that some of the muslim candidates that did get rejected where those with criminal background in muslim majority areas as well. Or chose a non-muslim candidate based on past performance. The election of Jaya Prada in Rampur is an example.

This shows that the voters are getting mature and are looking at what the candidate can do for them, rather then who he/she is.

By the way the number of muslim MPs is actually 30. Also the youngest MP is also a muslim(Muhammed Hamdulla Sayeed ), just 26 years old . Mausam Noor, just 27 years old is the youngest female MP. Congrats to them both

30, not 28, Muslims have won this Lok Sabha election | TwoCircles.net
Representation of Muslim women in Lok Sabha since Independence | TwoCircles.net

 

[notsuperstitious]

India's democracy, like india is too diverse and if you look at it with a microscope you will never see the full picture.

An example - the outgoing minority affairs minister Abdul Rehman Antuley who made conspiracy theory comments after Mumbai attacks, lost his seat. But he in the past has been chief minister of a state where hindus made up 80%+ population. at the same time, both the non hindu incumbents this time (there were two elections, one for centre and one for Andhra pradesh state)- PM Singh and Andhra CM YSR Reddy (a christian) were voted back into power. Is it religion? No, its thousands of factors, religion indeed being one of them at times.

Besides, the role of non bjp parties has been anything but perfect in terms of sticking to a european style of secularism, so the suggestion that without bjp india will cease to be communal is just bias. why not the musliim league in kerala? why not the Akali Dal in punjab? Why not the church and mr bukhari stopped from advising people to vote for party x or y? the author seems to subscribe to the view that secularism is somehow a hindu responsibility. its not.

 

[d33ja*]

i wont say nothing tho ...im too stupid to do so :|

 

[rubyjackass]

Nicely done, Ruby.

What would you make of the suggestion that perhaps Farzana is pointing to immaturity and opportunism among some such as the "rally wallah" types.

I am not that concerned. We will be what we try to be. Thats not opportunism. What do they get with that? They don't even get recognition for what they do.
Firstly things suggest that vote bank manipulators still manipulate muslim votes(for that matter all caste votes, community votes) in terms of their community. So political parties are not compelled to change their mindset. So when they look for a muslim leader it is for one who gets them muslim votes. The fact that parties still adopt this strategy suggest that these kind of politicians are successful. So we wait for a leader who does not just represent muslims to demonstrate this.
This is just with muslims as part of broader communal picture in India. But muslims have their security as an additional issue(not an unimportant one. Small point: In the south it is.). Clearly things improved this time. They will continue to improve.
That will start from people not from leaders. Only last year reservations got implemented in IITs and IIMs based on castes. See how politicians test their theory. And India failed to slap them on the face even though the people that matter are opposed to such segmentation. So there is no hope from the top.

An institution as large of "democracy" in India is by definiton simultaneously a solid, a liquid and a gas and all things in between. See there is no point in suggesting that it is otherwise, because momentarily it is and as soon as you add another persepective, it's something else, as well -- isn't it ??

I did not get the state theory of democracy.

So, what the heck does that mean? can we not pin this so called democracy in India, down, and characterize it?

May be we can characterize Indian democracy. But where is the parallel to compare and standardize?
Where else is a billion population which is free to make a difference for itself, with so many factors involved religion, language, caste, race, the heck even bollywood. India is unique.
Why waste time trying to fit it in some place as narrow as the minds of people who try to do that?