Indian defence & religion

[Angad_NSA]

It is still not science. It is an exercise procedure at its simplest, A philosophical speculation at its highest. You obviously have no idea of science.

And excercises has no science behind it? Or, maybe its random moves of hands and legs with no logical reasoning beihnd it? Isn't it, Mr.I_know_all?

We are not talking about hate against religions, we are talking about mental confusion that wishes to appropriate the word science because it sounds so modern, so sexy, with not the slightest clue of what science involves, and how it is intrinsically opposed to religion. It is even more hostile to the kind of superstition that Tamizhan was touting.

I can see where you are getting at. Believe me, Yoga is considered quite sexy nowadays. You should do some, it will purify your hateful mind.

The numerology behind 786 as Bismillah is as regressive as the worst of what Hindu priests inflicted on Hindus in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. It is better for someone who believes in that kind of numerological mumbo-jumbo to set right the jackass who derived it from 'Om'. A jackass whose learning is limited to citing something uploaded on YouTube as evidence. My stomach can take so much and no more.

Have you done a study on this? Do u have sources or just whining here out of your backside? If youtube videos are junk, then why I should consider your PK forum post anything more credible,sweetie?

 

[The SC]

This shows how India is dangerous by backwardness and superstition attached to (military) science.
And a fatal blow to the Indians claiming their secularism.

 

[Moksha]

Hi Joe,

I think China has some 30 volumes of books describing its contribution to science and technology,and freely distributed/available in all the top universities world over. Now these books have been peer reviewed and are based on irrefutable facts and this has helped Chinese a lot. Something along those lines is being done for Indian contribution to Science and technology. I think 9 volumes are already complete and send all across for peer review. Many IIT Profs are involved in this like for metallurgy field specific Prof related to Metallurgy is given responsibility.Till now what was happening was some paper here some paper there was published but no serious efforts were made to connect all the dots and many a times things were dismissed by saying BJP/right wing etc. I feel these kind of things will help make Indians know in concrete terms about our past. For example in the field of Neuroscience a lot of validation/testing is going on based on higher consciousness of Indian Yogi's and Tibetan Buddhists. But what is happening is the western scientist does not give due credit to Indian yogi's and Tibet Buddhist. These Yogis are not even mentioned and termed as subject which i feel is insulting to a person who is frankly helping them uncover so many things. Then these new theories are given fancy names and re-exported to India and world over where it is accepted with open hands. As mentioned earlier Rajiv Malhotra along with so many other IIT/IIM profs are doing great things in this regard.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And excercises has no science behind it? Or, maybe its random moves of hands and legs with no logical reasoning beihnd it? Isn't it, Mr.I_know_all?

It is not a question of exercise having science behind it; exercise is not science. Automobile technology is based on scientific discoveries and principles; it is not science.

As I have said from the outset, you have no idea of the scientific method, and think in your stupidity that it is a series of thoughts strung together. That fundamental lack of knowledge is why you are always in such confusion.

It boils down to this: it is not a question of my knowing it all, it is a question of your knowing nothing.

I can see where you are getting at. Believe me, Yoga is considered quite sexy nowadays. You should do some, it will purify your hateful mind.

No, you cannot see where I am getting at. As usual, you have not understood that merely mouthing the word science to clothe your superstition is meaningless. You have to understand science first.

Have you done a study on this? Do u have sources or just whining here out of your backside? If youtube videos are junk, then why I should consider your PK forum post anything more credible,sweetie?

Your ignorance is truly appalling. Islamic numerology is a well-developed superstition. You do not need to consider PDF posts to be authentic. Just take it as hints to study the subject before exposing yourself any further in public.

 

[jayron]

That is true... Also, I think Britishers demeaned our people into believing that Indians were inferior and so ruled us making us forget our scientific knowledge and imbibing superstition...

The britishers exploited India economically. They didn't care much about our culture. Though they banned practices like Sati which is not a great loss to our culture.

If we were still following our forefather's traditions, we would still be sacrificing fellow humans for bountiful crops and pushed widows into burning husband's pyre. Not to mention the rigid and inhuman caste system.

 

[Fazlu]

I am with Joe shearer. These silly practices need to be abolished and discouraged. You are free to indulge in whatever ritual you wish to perform ; at home. In government and scientific institutions however; they ought to be firmly discouraged.

I hope one day the kerala model gets adopted by the whole of India. Especially up north.

People need to evolve; as I'm sure they would eventually. Only question is, how long will it take to feel secure about your own religion......so that these needless rituals can be avoided ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hi Joe,

I think China has some 30 volumes of books describing its contribution to science and technology,and freely distributed/available in all the top universities world over. Now these books have been peer reviewed and are based on irrefutable facts and this has helped Chinese a lot. Something along those lines is being done for Indian contribution to Science and technology. I think 9 volumes are already complete and send all across for peer review. Many IIT Profs are involved in this like for metallurgy field specific Prof related to Metallurgy is given responsibility.Till now what was happening was some paper here some paper there was published but no serious efforts were made to connect all the dots and many a times things were dismissed by saying BJP/right wing etc. I feel these kind of things will help make Indians know in concrete terms about our past. For example in the field of Neuroscience a lot of validation/testing is going on based on higher consciousness of Indian Yogi's and Tibetan Buddhists. But what is happening is the western scientist does not give due credit to Indian yogi's and Tibet Buddhist. These Yogis are not even mentioned and termed as subject which i feel is insulting to a person who is frankly helping them uncover so many things. Then these new theories are given fancy names and re-exported to India and world over where it is accepted with open hands. As mentioned earlier Rajiv Malhotra along with so many other IIT/IIM profs are doing great things in this regard.

This may come as a surprise to you, but in my earlier career, when I was employed by Tata Steel, I came to revive my superficial knowledge of ancient and mediaeval Indian metallurgy and in particular, about Wootz steel. Since then, I have kept up with the subject, and am more or less up to date. When Sharada Srinivasan presented an early version of her joint paper with Dr. Ranganathan in Chennai, I found myself in the audience quite accidentally, by dint of being a tenant of the lady who hosted the talk. A fascinating discussion followed, where it turned out that these scientific researchers knew their metallurgy and their archaeology very well, but had little knowledge of how Wootz was used in weapon-making.

I wholly and uninhibitedly support scientific studies, peer reviewed investigation of conjecture and casual mentions. I do not support conjecture and casual mention. Nor do I support faith-based assertions of ancient scientific achievement.

Most of all, I abhor the ignorant who come out and represent themselves as the voice of ancient Indian cultural heritage.

 

[Angad_NSA]

The britishers exploited India economically. They didn't care much about our culture.

Disagree. British exploited India economically, socially and culturally.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Disagree. British exploited India economically, socially and culturally.

Even a simple statement from you is suspect, after you have demonstrated your monstrous ignorance at such length.

 

[raavan]

if the stone god in the temple is so powerful that it can protect our rocket if we pray to him...why cant we just the same god then to put our satellites into space as well....ISRO should be headed by priests then

 

[Angad_NSA]

If we were still following our forefather's traditions, we would still be sacrificing fellow humans for bountiful crops and pushed widows into burning husband's pyre. Not to mention the rigid and inhuman caste system.

You don't need British to figure that out. British ban on Sati came lot after a lot of Indian reformers started talking against it. But British historians "erased" those works and instead blamed Indians for not reforming Sati system & placing British monarch at position of epitome for "reforming the tribal Indians". Being weak minded, you obviously fell for propaganda.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am with Joe shearer. These silly practices need to be abolished and discouraged. You are free to indulge in whatever ritual you wish to perform ; at home. In government and scientific institutions however; they ought to be firmly discouraged.

I hope one day the kerala model gets adopted by the whole of India. Especially up north.

People need to evolve; as I'm sure they would eventually. Only question is, how long will it take to feel secure about your own religion......so that these needless rituals can be avoided ?

What completely baffles me is how the exuberant, self-confident and secure Hinduism of Vidyasagar and Vivekananda was reduced to these cowardly creatures hunting in packs and picking on the isolated as victims. What happened to us?

I suspect, but have not studied the matter in depth as yet, that it was due to a combination of divisive, exclusionary ideology, Gandhi's disastrous error in injecting religion into politics, in the teeth of Jinnah's dire warnings, and the nauseating pseudo-seculRism of the Congress Party post independence.

You don't need British to figure that out. British ban on Sati came lot after a lot of Indian reformers started talking against it. But British historians "erased" those works and instead blamed Indians for not reforming Sati system & placing British monarch at position of epitome for "reforming the tribal Indians". Being weak minded, you obviously fell for propaganda.

If these works were erased (they were not, another proof of your ignorance), how did you know about them? From secret intelligence files?

if the stone god in the temple is so powerful that it can protect our rocket if we pray to him...why cant we just the same god then to put our satellites into space as well....ISRO should be headed by priests then

Don't push your luck. A former head of the AEC was known as Vadyar Pulle.

 

[Angad_NSA]

if the stone god in the temple is so powerful that it can protect our rocket if we pray to him...why cant we just the same god then to put our satellites into space as well....ISRO should be headed by priests then

That's theoretically possible. You just need to figure out right mantra and right pronounciation.

We should try this out in near future.

 

[Tamizhan]

I suggest you contribute to not derailing threads by eliminating controversial nonsense like these stupid rituals - what scientific temper is displayed in crushing lemons?

First of all I did not de-rail. I just stated matter of factly the small religious sentiments that are part and parcel of Indian industry - not just defence.


Secondly no one claimed any scientific temper is being displayed here. It is just a ritual which does no harm to anyone. Things like breaking a coconut on the ship's hull during commissioning are just that. There is no reason for that, just a ritual which people do for the sake of tradition and belief.

As far as my personal opinion is concerned, it is as important as yours; it was your personal opinion to consider these stupidities as worthy of publicity. Further, during my tenure as CEO of a key joint venture between a western multinational and a Ministry of Defence undertaking, these village superstitions were completely eliminated, and nobody felt the lack. Nor did they cling on to Rahu Kaalam once they were told firmly to discard it. I made it count, in a valuable way.

Again, you are extrapolating my post to fit into your viewpoint. I repeat, I did not claim any scientific temper is being displayed or anything. I said these things happen matter of factly in every industry, all over India and there is nothing wrong in that as it does not harm anyone.

My post was to state these things happen and not on the merits and demerits of it. So you are on a tangent there. For you they are bad, for me they are a part and parcel of my culture and the interpretation varies. So no use in arguing about that.

Secondly by eliminating the rituals which did no one any harm nothing was improved was improved quality wise or efficiency wise.

For you they may be village superstition but not for others. Things like Bhumi Puja etc are an integral part of our culture and will remain as such.

 

[Screambowl]

The case in point is, even after learning rocket science, they still aren't able to think for themselves.

I would like to know the logic behind crushing lemons. I think it is just a tribal belief that a strong smell or taste will ward off evil, just like chilies and garlic.

These practices if anything are holding us back and not helping us in anyway. There have been numerous stories of people not being able to get married because of their Jathakam and things getting delayed (some times with fatal consequences) waiting for the "right alignment of stars".

If the dismal state of various things in out nation does not prove the practices wrong, I dont know what will.

when you get success in some work you show your thumbs up, may I ask you why do not you show your middle finger? there must be some reason isn'T it. For the same only reason before starting Muslim's say Bismillah, we say Om Ganeshaye Namah.. etc etc.. starting something with a good name and something pure. Coconut is considered good-luck and pure. Lemon is considered to be evil killer, which means purity in our work will kill all bad deeds.